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Don't be fooled by ATS' professional debunkers

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posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 04:40 PM
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Originally posted by smurfy
I can tell you one thing, if the video where the sound of a very loud explosion is heard is genuine and I am presuming it is, that is definitely a high powered explosion. Even allowing for the buildings amplifying and reverberating the sound, it is not cars petrol tanks going off..look at my address, I've heard plenty of both bombs and exploding cars going off in built-up areas and there is a big difference between them.



Unfortunately the shills around here are incapable of proving what was causing all of the explosions, yet they are too smug anyway to even consider they could have actually been bombs. Some of them are even so arrogant that they acknowledge there were tons of explosions and then turn around and ask us where the evidence of bombs/explosives is, as if they already know somehow that they WEREN'T bombs. With no evidence, only arrogance.

Hearing so many explosions is damn good reason by itself for a new investigation -- into what was causing all of those damned explosions.



Originally posted by kcfusion
Maybe nobody in your country, However in mine, the majority of my age group




posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 04:41 PM
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Originally posted by SphinxMontreal
Five of the most common arguments of debunkers:

1. All you truthers are spending too much time on those whacky 911 conspiracy sites.

Response: I agree. Maybe they should spend more time watching and believing the credible mainstream media, which succeeded in deceiving and cheerleading the American public into entering two unjust, illegal and immoral wars.

2. It's been eight long years and you still haven't solved the case.

Response: Gee, I didn't know there was a statute of limitations in solving this case. Maybe you should tell all those law enforcement agencies who are working on "cold cases" which go back 20 years and more to stop looking into those cases as well.

Those same eight long years apply to the debunkers who have declared the official story as gospel and still have an inexplicable need to do damage control and school truthers on the definition between explosion and explosives. Earth to debunkers: the media has it all covered - no need to do their job - not unless you're getting paid by the written word, anyway.

3. If 911 was an inside job with so many people involved, how come nobody has come forward and spilled the beans?

Response: I don't know, but maybe it is the same reason why all those people who are employed on top secret military projects and black ops reconnaissance also do not come forward and spill the beans. This may come as quite a shock to some, but there are great many people employed by the Government whose job and livelihood depends on keeping secrets.

4. How could they plant explosives in those buildings without the janitor and the cleaning lady noticing?

Response: Maybe your everyday worker had better things to do (like his job) than supervise the numerous maintenance and construction projects at the involved structures.

5. The Government is too incompetent to pull something like this off.

Answer: Yeah, they are so incompetent that they admitted on September 10, 2001 to not being able to account for $2.3 Trillion in defense funds and got away with it scott free, with nobody being held accountable. If they were the real idiots, they would be the slaves serving the people, not the other way around.

Good job OP in exposing the shenanigans at work here (pun intended).


As naive as that all is, at least you accept that the burden of proof is on your shoulders to support your claims, unlike the majority of your friends.

In the meantime, the rest of us will just keep waiting for you to produce something. Sometime. Maybe.

Please don't rush.



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 04:42 PM
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Originally posted by jthomas
As naive as that all is, at least you accept that the burden of proof is on your shoulders to support your claims, unlike the majority of your friends.


The burden of proof is YOURS to tell us what happened that day, jthomas, and you can't do it with evidence.

We weren't supposed to do the reports, the fed government assigned them. And YOU are defending them apparently, so put up or shut up.



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 04:46 PM
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Originally posted by bsbray11


The burden of proof is YOURS to tell us what happened that day, jthomas, and you can't do it with evidence.



It's been done.... with evidence.

www.vaed.uscourts.gov...

Can you please point out where the defense during the trial of the United States v. Zacarias Moussaoui objected to the evidence provided?

It is now up to those that do NOT believe to come forward with evidence to prove an alternative theory. 8 years...nothing yet.

[edit on 1-12-2009 by ImAPepper]



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 04:49 PM
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Originally posted by bsbray11

Originally posted by jthomas
As naive as that all is, at least you accept that the burden of proof is on your shoulders to support your claims, unlike the majority of your friends.


The burden of proof is YOURS to tell us what happened that day, jthomas, and you can't do it with evidence.

We weren't supposed to do the reports, the fed government assigned them. And YOU are defending them apparently, so put up or shut up.


I see you're still upset that I called your bluff and debunked you so easily, bsbray11. It's always been easy.

Don't be upset. Just admit that you cannot support any of your claims with evidence and apologize to the families of the victims of 9/11.

You owe it to them.



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 04:51 PM
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Originally posted by bsbray11

Unfortunately the shills around here


This line coming from the guy who started a thread crying like John Merrick because people called him a truther.


Nice job Bsbray



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 04:58 PM
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Originally posted by ImAPepper
It's been done.... with evidence.

www.vaed.uscourts.gov...

Can you please point out where the defense during the trial of the United States v. Zacarias Moussaoui objected to the evidence provided?


Sorry, that's an extremist Muslim on trial for being involved with all of this, which actually would not surprise me (regardless of whether it's true or not). I believe Muslims WERE involved, just like in 1993, but aided and abetted by federal authorities, just like in 1993 (the FBI was working with the cell allegedly responsible before the actual bombing -- look it up or I'll force you to read it here myself). It's not a case about US government involvement or complicity, and none of the evidence presented either confirms or denies that charge.



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 05:13 PM
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Originally posted by bsbray11
I believe Muslims WERE involved,


Uh huh. The US Government talked 19 Muslims into hijacking planes and killing themselves... oh wait... did I miss the part when the remote controls took over... along with the voice morphing?



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 05:16 PM
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reply to post by ImAPepper
 


You forgot the hologram/ laser projection and bombs etc etc

I am so glad I seldom post in the 9/11 forum.....the bickering is hilarious to observe though



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 05:18 PM
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reply to post by bsbray11
 





Unfortunately the shills around here are incapable of proving what was causing all of the explosions,


Of course, we could turn that around and say that none of the "truthers" can prove there were bombs there.

At least those of us "shills" can point out reports that no evidence of explosives were found and interviews with FDNY members that state the same.



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 05:29 PM
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Originally posted by vermonster

Originally posted by ZombieOctopus
Let me guess; you lost an argument recently and you're trying to make yourself feel better about it by convincing yourself it was a paid government operative.


Calling someone a paid agent of the government, is like comparing something to Nazism or someone to Hitler; it concedes that you have nothing of substance to say.


yeah. so that means there are no professional debunkers on ats.

s&f op, good post

The one thing that convinces me that 9/11 really did happen is incompetance! One thing that is blindinly obvious with government leaks, accidents, misplaced documents etc etc (not 9/11 realted but everything else) is that government has a core of incompetance. All the so called "evidence" for a cover up could just as easily be incompetance!!!!!!!!!!!!

For example : why did Bush sit there in that school when the US was supposed to be under attack? Answer : cos he didn't have a feckin clue what to do!!



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by OzWeatherman
You forgot the hologram/ laser projection and bombs etc etc


And you forgot what the word "relevance" means.

Or even "straw man."

I'll go ahead and throw "logical fallacy" in there for good measure.



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 05:46 PM
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Thank you for this post and topic.

About 4 months ago, I actually tried to cancel my membership to ATS (this is my first post in 4 months) because I felt this site has been infiltrated, if not taken over by the debunkers or disinfo agents.

I find most of the truth sites are infiltrated, and it absolutely amazes me, how the PTB have attempted to overtake all the truth sites.

Meanwhile, I have learned to ignore them, not confront them, though I do have a permanent tooth marks on my tongue. When necessary, I will comment to these aholes. Its important we let everyone know when they make their usually obvious comments on a subject.

And to all the debunkers and disinfo agents: You are committing treason and hurting yourselves. The PTB will use you and dump you, so wake up, ask forgiveness and GET A LIFE!



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 05:49 PM
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Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
Of course, we could turn that around and say that none of the "truthers" can prove there were bombs there.


Considering we already have tons of sounds of explosions, and even many video clips of even firefighters and police saying there were additional bombs in the building (which you simply hand-wave away as "confusion" without proving it), I suppose you actually want us to take all the little microscopic pieces and put them all back together, and reconstruct whatever the hell it was that was blowing up. That's what you want, right?


At least those of us "shills" can point out reports that no evidence of explosives were found and interviews with FDNY members that state the same.


FDNY members were also saying there were bombs in the building that day. And there are those who still say it, despite being told otherwise by their superiors and even given gag orders regarding things they saw that day.



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 05:55 PM
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Originally posted by bsbray11
And you forgot what the word "relevance" means.

Or even "straw man."

I'll go ahead and throw "logical fallacy" in there for good measure.


What...no allegations of deflection or disinfo agent? Come on, all I need is a couple more allegations on a few more forums and that will make 1000 accusations


But seriously, I dont care who did 9/11....lots of people died, and it was a tragedy...thats all that matters to me

[edit on 1/12/2009 by OzWeatherman]



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 05:59 PM
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Originally posted by bsbray11

despite being told otherwise by their superiors and even given gag orders regarding things they saw that day.


Will you force us to read this Bsbray? Please forward the evidence that there was a gag order with the FDNY... I know several FDNY firefighters... you best have some darn strong back up, truther.



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 06:10 PM
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Originally posted by OzWeatherman
What...no allegations of deflection or disinfo agent? Come on, all I need is a couple more allegations on a few more forums and that will make 1000 accusations


Your ignorance speaks for itself when your argument consists of asserting I am saying things that I really am not.

[edit on 1-12-2009 by bsbray11]



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 06:15 PM
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Originally posted by bsbray11

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
What...no allegations of deflection or disinfo agent? Come on, all I need is a couple more allegations on a few more forums and that will make 1000 accusations


Your ignorance speaks for itself when your argument consists of asserting I am saying things that I really am not.

[edit on 1-12-2009 by bsbray11]


Oh lighten up.....I was being sarcastic
.....but as you are unfamiliar with sarcasm, I wont bother replying to you anymore.

I actually have no argument for who did the 9/11 attacks. Like I said I dont care. I dont disagree with you, I dont agree with you, get over it.

Thanks for reminding me why I avoid some topics though....


[edit on 1/12/2009 by OzWeatherman]



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 06:32 PM
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Originally posted by ImAPepper
Please forward the evidence that there was a gag order with the FDNY... I know several FDNY firefighters... you best have some darn strong back up, truther.


Yessir, fascist.

(If you get to decide I'm a "truther," then you are a fascist. It's only fair.
)

The guy this information comes from is a former Lt. firefighter and auxiliary police officer that was present at the WTC on 9/11, named Paul Isaac Jr.


Isaac said over the last four years he’s compiled information and names of civilians and firefighters, whose identities he keeps anonymous for their safety, who all claim to have either witnessed explosions in the towers or have information that a controlled demolition took place.

“It’s just amazing how many people are afraid to talk for fear of retaliation or losing their jobs,” said Isaac, regarding the FBI gag order placed on law enforcement and fire department officials, preventing them from openly talking about any inside knowledge of 9/11.


www.whale.to...

Another source: "BOMBS INSIDE WTC; FIRE OFFICER SAYS FIREMEN, COPS KNOW TRUTH" www.americanfreepress.net...

Firefighter saying there was a bomb in the building:



Police Officer Craig Bartmer saying the same thing:




A journalist saying the FBI told him that the plane impacts coincided with bombs in the basement:



Police radio reporting a vehicle exploding under the towers:




Sibel Edmonds was also gagged regarding her knowledge of what was going on inside anti-terrorism FBI units around 9/11, and the ACLU has called her the most gagged person in US history. Her case against the FBI was thrown out of court by John Ashcroft himself citing "states secrets" privileges.


So how much evidence do we need of the exact same thing (bombs in the basements) before you stop shrugging it off as "confusion" and start taking it seriously? Police radio, the FBI, William Rodriguez, Philip Morelli, Mike Pecoraro, seismic signals that don't match up with plane impacts even when adjusted for delay, numerous anonymous video testimonies from live news feed that day that explosions were coming from the basements and subway level... NYPD William Walsh saying only the lower level elevators were blown out of their hinges, not upper-level servicing elevators, also the lobby was damaged... Really, how asinine do you have to be to automatically assume all of those things are chance coincidences that happen to line up in such a way, and not even consider the alternative for a second?

[edit on 1-12-2009 by bsbray11]



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 06:49 PM
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Originally posted by bsbray11


Yessir, fascist.

(If you get to decide I'm a "truther," then you are a fascist. It's only fair.
)

The guy this information comes from is a former Lt. firefighter and auxiliary police officer that was present at the WTC on 9/11, named Paul Isaac Jr.


Isaac said over the last four years he’s compiled information and names of civilians and firefighters, whose identities he keeps anonymous for their safety, who all claim to have either witnessed explosions in the towers or have information that a controlled demolition took place.

“It’s just amazing how many people are afraid to talk for fear of retaliation or losing their jobs,” said Isaac, regarding the FBI gag order placed on law enforcement and fire department officials, preventing them from openly talking about any inside knowledge of 9/11.



You can call me anything... just not late for lunch!


Anonymous hearsay? Bsbray...come on dude! You are way too smart to post like that.

I can tell you for a FACT that there is no gag order on ANY firefighters from the FDNY. I will be back in lower Manhattan Sunday evening. If I bump into any of them, I will be sure to ask them.


The rest of your post again, is fogs of war, and people hearing explosions.

[edit on 1-12-2009 by ImAPepper]



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