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Don't be fooled by ATS' professional debunkers

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posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 12:54 PM
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Originally posted by TrueTruth

Originally posted by the_denv
I dont like this thread, its full of hate.

By reading all these posts, its as if fellow researchers are trying to create frustration and arguments by saying 9/11 was "not" an inside job...when it clearly was.

(I actually wrote a lot of text here and decided to delete it all before I posted it - Just let me say one thing, stop fighting amongst each other your wasting my time, your time and the 3rd party time).




That's not what this is about.

It's about fleecey boy crapping on people who don't agree with every single thing he says is true. and when you try to parse out the particulars with him, he will eventually ask you if you're jewish.

it's about honest intellectual inquiry, vs the rabid certainty of those people foolish enough to think they have all the answers.

and if you zoom out, it's about why nobody take this 'movement' seriously.

if they want to continue to be considered lunatics, then I heartily suggest they continue.


Maybe nobody in your country, However in mine, the majority of my age group




posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 01:13 PM
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Five of the most common arguments of debunkers:

1. All you truthers are spending too much time on those whacky 911 conspiracy sites.

Response: I agree. Maybe they should spend more time watching and believing the credible mainstream media, which succeeded in deceiving and cheerleading the American public into entering two unjust, illegal and immoral wars.

2. It's been eight long years and you still haven't solved the case.

Response: Gee, I didn't know there was a statute of limitations in solving this case. Maybe you should tell all those law enforcement agencies who are working on "cold cases" which go back 20 years and more to stop looking into those cases as well.

Those same eight long years apply to the debunkers who have declared the official story as gospel and still have an inexplicable need to do damage control and school truthers on the definition between explosion and explosives. Earth to debunkers: the media has it all covered - no need to do their job - not unless you're getting paid by the written word, anyway.

3. If 911 was an inside job with so many people involved, how come nobody has come forward and spilled the beans?

Response: I don't know, but maybe it is the same reason why all those people who are employed on top secret military projects and black ops reconnaissance also do not come forward and spill the beans. This may come as quite a shock to some, but there are great many people employed by the Government whose job and livelihood depends on keeping secrets.

4. How could they plant explosives in those buildings without the janitor and the cleaning lady noticing?

Response: Maybe your everyday worker had better things to do (like his job) than supervise the numerous maintenance and construction projects at the involved structures.

5. The Government is too incompetent to pull something like this off.

Answer: Yeah, they are so incompetent that they admitted on September 10, 2001 to not being able to account for $2.3 Trillion in defense funds and got away with it scott free, with nobody being held accountable. If they were the real idiots, they would be the slaves serving the people, not the other way around.

Good job OP in exposing the shenanigans at work here (pun intended).



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 02:00 PM
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Originally posted by kcfusion

Originally posted by TrueTruth

Originally posted by the_denv
I dont like this thread, its full of hate.

By reading all these posts, its as if fellow researchers are trying to create frustration and arguments by saying 9/11 was "not" an inside job...when it clearly was.

(I actually wrote a lot of text here and decided to delete it all before I posted it - Just let me say one thing, stop fighting amongst each other your wasting my time, your time and the 3rd party time).




That's not what this is about.

It's about fleecey boy crapping on people who don't agree with every single thing he says is true. and when you try to parse out the particulars with him, he will eventually ask you if you're jewish.

it's about honest intellectual inquiry, vs the rabid certainty of those people foolish enough to think they have all the answers.

and if you zoom out, it's about why nobody take this 'movement' seriously.

if they want to continue to be considered lunatics, then I heartily suggest they continue.


Maybe nobody in your country, However in mine, the majority of my age group



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 02:09 PM
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reply to post by SphinxMontreal
 


6. And of course OBL admitting that he financed and taking responsibility for 9/11 - we have the best constructed story that fits the available information and evidence.

(The debunkers' big lie that's endlessly repeated.)


7. The way you speak anyone could quite easily imagine that you had something to do with 911 after all the crap you've been spinning this whole thread so why don't you tell us the truth were you behind 911 and the pentagon and all these secondary explosions???



8. Most truther claims that firemen said there were bombs tend to be taken out of context.



9. Explosions don't = explosives. You are quoting from the confusion and mayhem of the day.



10. If they want to continue to be considered lunatics, then I heartily suggest they continue.

Professional debunkers? What professional debunkers? I'm sure these fine individuals are just honest, concerned citizens who think FDNY firefighters and the FDNY Safety Chief wouldn't know a bomb if they found one and that the massive secondary explosions were really exploding office machines, falling bodies or cleaning products.

Move along folks -- ignore the 100 flags -- nothing to see here.




[edit on 1-12-2009 by GoldenFleece]



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 02:17 PM
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Originally posted by Alfie1

Originally posted by kcfusion

Originally posted by TrueTruth

Originally posted by the_denv
I dont like this thread, its full of hate.

By reading all these posts, its as if fellow researchers are trying to create frustration and arguments by saying 9/11 was "not" an inside job...when it clearly was.

(I actually wrote a lot of text here and decided to delete it all before I posted it - Just let me say one thing, stop fighting amongst each other your wasting my time, your time and the 3rd party time).




That's not what this is about.

It's about fleecey boy crapping on people who don't agree with every single thing he says is true. and when you try to parse out the particulars with him, he will eventually ask you if you're jewish.

it's about honest intellectual inquiry, vs the rabid certainty of those people foolish enough to think they have all the answers.

and if you zoom out, it's about why nobody take this 'movement' seriously.

if they want to continue to be considered lunatics, then I heartily suggest they continue.


Maybe nobody in your country, However in mine, the majority of my age group



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 02:29 PM
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reply to post by Alfie1
 

How about in America?

MSNBC Poll

Do you believe any of the conspiracy theories suggesting the U.S. government was somehow involved in 9/11? * 96495 responses

Yes. 67%

No. 27%

I'm not sure. 5.4%



[edit on 1-12-2009 by GoldenFleece]



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 02:56 PM
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reply to post by GoldenFleece
 


GF, you forgot to relay that almost one hundred thousand people(96495) have responded to this survey. Of course it is not a scientific pole but it is still a heck of a lot of people who the majority of believe


The government has left many questions unanswered about that day.
.

It is funny though, how they relate that sentence to conspiracy theories.


Edit:sorry GF just reread your post and you did relay that...been a long day.

[edit on 1-12-2009 by PersonalChoice]



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 03:00 PM
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Um, do any believers here have any iron-clad proof that there exist so-called "professional debunkers?" Perhaps this belief exists because folks who are often "debunking" ideas seem to have armed themselves with inconveniently knowable facts and the tools of logic and rationalism. Those are definitely the hallmarks of educated folks, but it's another thing altogether to suggest that some shadowy official group is lurking around on ATS, trying to derail a self-selected group of 'conspiracy theorists' from engaging in their favorite pursuits.

Let us be clear, the reason that '9/11 Truth' is so irresistable to skeptics and 'debunkers' is because the 'Truthers' have yet to produced even a scintilla of concrete evidence for their highly variegated, grandiose hypotheses, evidence that can't just as easily be scoffed at by non-believers. Just like most UFOlogists (I figured I'd take an easy cheap shot there, even though I tend believe in ETs).



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by mahajohn
Let us be clear, the reason that '9/11 Truth' is so irresistable to skeptics and 'debunkers' is because the 'Truthers' have yet to produced even a scintilla of concrete evidence for their highly variegated, grandiose hypotheses, evidence that can't just as easily be scoffed at by non-believers.

Let me guess -- you haven't read more than the first few posts and never got to the compilation of 9/11 news clips on the previous page, where FDNY firefighters said "clear out -- there's a bomb in the building" and the FDNY Chief of Public Safety talked to NBC News about "secondary explosions" and "bombs that were planted in the building."

Typical.



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 03:32 PM
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reply to post by mahajohn
 


I'm going to say that me, my gf and freind saw a craft emitting/changing colors, and flying above a lake and then disappeared before our eyes, so if it wasn't a ufo/alien/man-made advanced technology, what was it? Since you felt like taking a cheap shot, I'm an actual 1st hand witness so unless you can debunk me lol...Now on to the OP, you'll never be able to "convience" (i use that term losely) anyone of anything ever. Now your best bet to get a rise from anyone is to get get them to realize that there is something amiss. The best way to do that is this video here video.google.com...#

If you can get people to watch and understand that video, you'll be able to explain how and why they would do such a thing as 9/11...Also, if anyone here doesn't beleive that something is amiss watch that video and then rethink everything else...



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 03:52 PM
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I say let them come and debate me.
I am armed with knowledge and truth and they cannot win.

Simply ask any professional debunker to repeat, as an experiment, what happened with the fuel tanks in the airplanes that caused both the explosions in WTC 1 and WTC 2 and the resulting fires.

They can't because it violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
Jet fuel has a flame point (the temperature at which it initially produces flames) of 100 degress and a fire point (the temperature at which it will continue to produce fumes for combustion) of 110 degrees.
The "fire that weakened the steel" could not have occurred. The fire point is too low!!!!!

I will take on anyone wishing to debate me about this issue because, as a scientist myself, I believe in the process of repetition and peer review.
If the official storyline of 911 is the "truth" then the science behind it should be repeatable.
Funny that so much of it is not.

Arm yourself with facts and make the debunkers look like the fools that they truly are.



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 03:55 PM
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I will say that like many, many people here, I've taken a close read of the many sides of the 9/11 Meme. Were one to read a book about conspiracy theories, say A Culture of Conspiracy: Apocalyptic Visions in Contemporary America, one could see *every* aspect of the grand 9/11 Conspiracy Meme laid bare, all without referencing a single bit of specific information associated with that idea. The 9/11C.M. is a classic conspiracy theory, one pushed into overdrive by ready access to multimedia technologies and online social networks. To this date, there has not been a single, solitary instance of someone producing a document, a witness, a whistleblower, or any physical evidence that would stand up in a court of law that can prove, beyond all doubt, that there was a government conspiracy. I'm not saying there wasn't one either. I'm just saying that the conspiracy theory is so riddled by holes and infected with half-truths and ideas that can't be demonstrably proven one way or the other that it's ripe pickings for skeptics.

As far as "there's a bomb!" and such, I will say that people ape what their told in situations like that. 9/11 was a day of high novelty and confusion, and any information offered by ANYBODY was potentially true. All one needs to do is have ONE person unknowingly say something not entirely representation of reality, and a reality is born. I personally spread many rumors that day, working in downtown DC, things that I was told by people I trusted. I had no reason to doubt them. I even heard some of these untruths on TV that same day, only to have them turn out to be utterly untrue hours later (e.g. the State Department was bombed, and the USA Today building was bombed, etc.).



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 04:00 PM
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Originally posted by _BoneZ_
What's funny about you "Debunkers" is that you actually think most of us truthers believe things we are told without a shred of research or verification. When in actuality, many of us have spent countless hours, days, months and years with many sleepless nights researching and verifying facts.


There is a term for it, it's called obsessive-compulsive disorder



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 04:10 PM
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reply to post by mahajohn
 


What YOU have said is the "classic response" to the actual claim that the information given to the public simply does not add up.

Pay attention to my last statement.

I did not implicate the government in one single thing. What I said was that the official storyline does not add up.
Of course that leads to the idea that the government is complicit in the bombings, but that is not what I said.

Until an accurate and impartial investigation is done, the "conspiracy meme" that is pushed by disinformation agents (whether knowingly or unknowingly) will be the predominant idea associated with 911.

Come to think of it.
Whenever anyone of any type turns the topic of 911 into a conversation on conspiracy then the truth becomes forever lost and associated with conspiracy.

This is currently not a conspiracy, only a poor job by investigators; however,
if an actual, accurate and impartial investigation was ever done, then we might see (will most likely see) some type of conspiracy.
Until then, we can only speculate, and any speculation on the subject is considered part of the "conspiracy meme" that you, knowingly or unknowingly, continue to promote.

Are you a professional debunker playing coy?



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 04:17 PM
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Originally posted by kcfusion

Originally posted by Alfie1
That's interesting. Have you got a source indicating that the majority



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 04:22 PM
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reply to post by buddhasystem
 





There is a term for it, it's called obsessive-compulsive disorder


Please do not use terms associated with an actual Psychiatric diagnosis unless you are capable of rendering an actual diagnosis.
I could just as easily say that you sound like someone with Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

Similar to the last person to whom I responded, by associating individuals who question the official storyline of 911 with the topic of "metal instability" you have both drawn attention away from the truth that the official storyline is at best gross incompetence and at worst treason, and perpetuated the meme that anyone who questions the official storyline of 911 is not mentally stable.

Get better tactics son.

Is argument ad hominem is the only thing left in your debate toolbox?



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 04:23 PM
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Originally posted by SphinxMontreal
Five of the most common arguments of debunkers:

1. All you truthers are spending too much time on those whacky 911 conspiracy sites.


Lie #1. Skeptics ask that you not ONLY look at truther sites, and to follow up their claims by researching their sources. ie: there are truthers that listen to Alex Jones religiously and take his word as gospel.




2. It's been eight long years and you still haven't solved the case.


Lie #2. Skeptics ask for evidence. It's been 8 years, so far nothing.




school truthers on the definition between explosion and explosives.


Truth #1! Great job.




3. If 911 was an inside job with so many people involved, how come nobody has come forward and spilled the beans?


Not one of my favorites, but I have heard this one. I do think that there would be a whistle blower by now. It's the amount of people that have allegedly kept quiet that I question.



4. How could they plant explosives in those buildings without the janitor and the cleaning lady noticing?


Lie #3 I have never heard this worded like this. What is more appropriate is that these buildings were open 24 hours a day along with a large crew of maintenance workers. Also, elevator mechanics worked there 7 days a week.


Response: Maybe your everyday worker had better things to do (like his job) than supervise the numerous maintenance and construction projects at the involved structures.


Your "Response" proves you haven't a clue as to the operational procedures of a commercial building. I placed the emphasis to prove this point. Do you think the Director of Engineering or the Elevator company allows projects to go on in their building without proper procedures followed? Do yourself a favor. Google: Fuji Bank UPS upgrade at the WTC. You will then get answers to at least a couple of your theories. That is, if you are REALLY looking for the truth.


5. The Government is too incompetent to pull something like this off.


Another lie. What is said is that the amount of people it would take to do it would be quite improbable.


Answer: Yeah, they are so incompetent that they admitted on September 10, 2001 to not being able to account for $2.3 Trillion in defense funds and got away with it scott free,


Once again, you lack of knowledge is apparent. The 2.3 trillion was announced well before September 10th and well after. It appears you are in a 2006 time warp regarding 911 CT's.

[edit on 1-12-2009 by ImAPepper]



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 04:27 PM
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Originally posted by _BoneZ_
What's funny about you "Debunkers" is that you actually think most of us truthers believe things we are told without a shred of research or verification. When in actuality, many of us have spent countless hours, days, months and years with many sleepless nights researching and verifying facts.


Don't forget countless dollars from your paycheck, purchasing snake oil from Richard Gage. Yeah Bonez, I would have sleepless nights too!



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 04:35 PM
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Originally posted by Lillydale

Originally posted by kcfusion

Originally posted by Alfie1
That's interesting. Have you got a source indicating that the majority



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 04:37 PM
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Whether 9/11 was an inside job or not....it was a conspiracy REGARDLESS of what really happened. A pre-planned crime involving 2 or more individuals is a conspiracy...plain and simple.
So I really have never understood why everybody gets so irritated about 9/11 being a "conspiracy". It was.
Now the question is...WHICH conspiracy makes more sense according to scientific facts.




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