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Don't be fooled by ATS' professional debunkers

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posted on Nov, 30 2009 @ 01:07 PM
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If Osama was solely responsible for 9/11, then Obama is solely responsible for the bombing of the embassy in Kenya




posted on Nov, 30 2009 @ 01:18 PM
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Well, it only took a few posts in this thread before the condescending remarks started to appear from some posters, with emphasis on other posters lack of intellect and much emphasis on their own superior intellect. and not one nut or bolt of real guiding information, and not one nut or bolt of real information as to what happened on 9/11. The simple fact is that there were so many incredible incidents on that day, and people are entitled have their views on what happened whether they are experts or not. The same goes for the OP's post and his suspicions. I do think that if there are disinfo agents working the forums, and you are suspicious of anyone in particular check all their posts to date under their profile, it can make wonderful reading sometimes. They may not be an agent, just some pests that says "No" to everything. I do recall at least one forum member saying in a thread that he/she worked for the CIA so, if true, then the CIA is on board, if not officially. Wiki had pages altered by CIA operatives, that was reported on mainstream media, so the OP could be right to be at least a little suspicious.

news.bbc.co.uk...



[edit on 30-11-2009 by smurfy]



posted on Nov, 30 2009 @ 02:06 PM
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Originally posted by jthomas

Originally posted by kcfusion
J Thomas,

I have been following your posts and replies on ATS for a while now and I have to say, they reveal quite a lot about your character and intelligence. Every time you reply in one of these threads, you completely ignore the unanswered questions surrounding 9/11, ...


You don't read very well. Just because you and others claim there are "unanswered questions" neither means there are, that they are based on facts, or that they are valid.

I easily showed that in this thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The fact remains: the burden of proof remains entirely on your shoulders to support your claims, including demonstrating that your so-called "unanswered questions" are even valid. Eight years of "Truther" evasions, debunked claims, and faulty assertions shows they aren't valid.

I suggest you get to work.



So no debate ending thread then? I was actually really looking forward to it as well.


Didn't really believe it was going to happen anyway, you would be outed quite easily I suspect. Deflect entirely from what I stated in my post and generalize till the cows come home. That is what you do best!


Also you think you did what now in this thread

www.abovetopsecret.com...



Too Funny!

Your true colours are there for all to see!

Edit to add: Do you have another username or do you just ask your buddy to star your post everytime?


[edit on 30-11-2009 by kcfusion]



posted on Nov, 30 2009 @ 02:17 PM
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Good article and I think this is true with a lot of things. Wether it's 9/11, ufology, the paranormal and more.

Debunkers are what I call useful idiots. If the government wants to blunt these things they can just send out debunkers to cloud the debate.

Debunkers in most cases don't appeal to reason or logic. They appeal to emotion. So you will hear phrases like this:

"how can anyone believe this"

"You can't think the government can do this"

"That's absurd, no one with any education would listen to this"

"That's crazy and it's just another conspiracy theory"

You get the point. Most debunkers never bring any counter evidence to the table. They just appeal to emotion. It reminds of something Alfred Russel Wallace said who was a biologist that helped Darwin with natural selection. He was also a spiritualist.


I thus learnt my first great lesson in the inquiry into these obscure fields of knowledge, never to accept the disbelief of men or their accusations of imposture or of imbecility, as of any weight when opposed to the repeated observation of facts by other men, admittedly sane and honest. The whole history of science shows us that whenever the educated and scientific men of any age have denied the facts of other investigators on a priori grounds of absurdity or impossibility, the deniers have always been wrong.



posted on Nov, 30 2009 @ 02:20 PM
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2 hours later......
curious how everytime I post something revealing,
I pick up several trojans!

The only other time was researching 9/11.
Hmmmm......
S & F!

Matrix Rising, dont forget the inevitable,
"don't believe anything from no damn fool conspiracy website either" comment!
LOL!



[edit on 30-11-2009 by dodadoom]



posted on Nov, 30 2009 @ 03:26 PM
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Jthomas fits the bill
The guy just denies everything without any valid counter points. All he ever does is distract, misinform, and misdirect. Good little drone.



posted on Nov, 30 2009 @ 03:35 PM
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I don't think these "professional" debunkers are fooling anyone. Most people don't believe a part or all of the official story, the debunkers are there to distract and make it seem like there is a debate.



posted on Nov, 30 2009 @ 03:39 PM
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Originally posted by redoubt
reply to post by GoldenFleece
 


Go ahead. Live in fear and raise your mob to track down your ee-ville agents. Live like those who led witch hunts before us, or Joe McCarthy in the '50s. Create paranoia in the one place where the diversity of humanity was once celebrated and not labeled with the scarlet letter.

Don't worry about defining the enemy! Anyone who disagrees is clearly the bad guy!

After you have cleared ATS of the majority of honest folks, it will be yours and you can sleep well at night. Those left will dare not speak against you.

Congratulations.





I don't agree with you much my friend but this post hits the nail right on the head. To be honest with the OP, we NEED debunkers. As long as they do bring an intelligent and well laid out argument to the discussion. It's only when they start doing what many believers do (cutting people down and calling names) when I start to feel that the OP has a point. Those messages do nothing but derail and mislead and it makes one start to believe that there is a plot to keep the truth muddied up.

However, you really hit it this time.



posted on Nov, 30 2009 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by nickspm


Yeah...right. Because an inside job has never happened before...right???


Obviously because none of you can demonstrate it.

Duh.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

jthomas,

Respectfully, would you like to rephrase your previous statement? Are you suggesting that the United States has never been involved in any type of inside job? Or are you suggesting that no inside jobs have ever occurred anywhere?


It should be obvious that "Truthers" cannot demonstrate that "9/11 was an inside job", the subject matter here that we all have been discussing.



posted on Nov, 30 2009 @ 03:49 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Nov, 30 2009 @ 03:50 PM
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reply to post by ZombieOctopus
 


well it looks like one has a pic, but still refuses to look up the math and science to see the possibilities, its easier just to deny , deny, deny. watch fox news some more, you'll miss there coverage of Hannah Montana if you lear away at anything resembling intelligent conversation

don't forget to collect your check

well maybe you don't get paid, you just enjoy living in the denial of America not being the perfect country.



posted on Nov, 30 2009 @ 03:53 PM
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Originally posted by Matrix Rising
Good article and I think this is true with a lot of things. Wether it's 9/11, ufology, the paranormal and more.

Debunkers are what I call useful idiots. If the government wants to blunt these things they can just send out debunkers to cloud the debate.


What does the "government" have to do with anything?

Never thought about that, did you?



posted on Nov, 30 2009 @ 03:53 PM
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" To be honest with the OP, we NEED debunkers. As long as they do bring an intelligent and well laid out argument to the discussion. It's only when they start doing what many believers do (cutting people down and calling names) when I start to feel that the OP has a point. Those messages do nothing but derail and mislead and it makes one start to believe that there is a plot to keep the truth muddied up."

that should be a quot , but i'm still learning the proper way to post

anywho...... are there polite debunkers? I have yet to see one on this site, they all yell like they are personally offended you have any argument against the government. So if they are such supporters, then why are they even on this site? are not people supposed to raise these questions here, should this not be a place where you can bring something to the table without being called retarded for even mentioning it? I can be insulted in the outside this website and not be surprised, or even in a conversation with an "average Joe". but here?! why would someone even sign up for a site like this if they did not think ANY of this stuff even could be true?

When i first came to this site under another name a couple years ago, The FBI website said this was the #1 site for misinfo , (which leads me to believe that there are subjects they rather you not read about). so is it out of bounds to think agents are on here to debunk? HELL NO! I can't see much other reason to join a website (of which you apparently disagree with everyone) just to belittle everyone for there thoughts they are trying to convey to like minded people. if they can't agree or believe anything on this site then why join? because they are an agent, thats why, and the whiner they get (and those folks are soo whiney) the more it seems true.

they never bring anything to the table, and deny facts put up to them, they don't "discuss" things, they tell you what they say IS. by yelling in caps, hoping to pull good ATSers into a yelling match .

is that what this site is? one side laying out something decent so a bunch of guys who agree with nothing can rip on it for even being brought up?

ATS should just ban them, if they hate all our ideas and voices that much, they should make Skeptics top secret.com a site

which IS a stupid idea



[edit on 30-11-2009 by ReturnOfGoukilock]



posted on Nov, 30 2009 @ 03:58 PM
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Originally posted by ReturnOfGoukilock


To be honest with the OP, we NEED debunkers. As long as they do bring an intelligent and well laid out argument to the discussion. It's only when they start doing what many believers do (cutting people down and calling names) when I start to feel that the OP has a point. Those messages do nothing but derail and mislead and it makes one start to believe that there is a plot to keep the truth muddied up.



The real truth has been in front of everyone since day one. "Truthers", however, insist that the "truth" is always hidden from them by some alien "power(s)" and "debunkers" exist to make sure it stays that way.

Weird, isn't it?



posted on Nov, 30 2009 @ 04:19 PM
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Just look at the last few posts and see the definition of side track off
topic, bla bla, spin crap, that this thread is all about.
Proof positive.
Could even be a busted down droid computer.

[edit on 30-11-2009 by Donny 4 million]



posted on Nov, 30 2009 @ 04:30 PM
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This thread should be closed for drifting completely off topic.

Accusations of "paid agent" are made by people who are frustrated and cannot debate the issues without attacking the poster.

Its a lame attempt to try and discredit other posters and avoid the debate of information. Last I checked, it's also a violation of ATS rules to make such accusations.

I've been frustrated to the point of accusing someone before and been accused of being an "agent" or of using "multiple accounts" because people can't believe that other posters might share the same opinion as the person they are accusing.

It's childish and also a sign that someone is engaging in disinformation tactics.



posted on Nov, 30 2009 @ 04:48 PM
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Originally posted by jthomas

Originally posted by GoldenFleece

BTW, thanks to everyone who flagged this thread, which put it on the front page.


Always happy to help expose 9/11 "Truthers."


Lol. And you do it with such an heart
I don't agree with the op who says that are paid debunkers. Most of them are volunteers and do the job perfectly. Is recession time, people have to understand that the government can't pay for everything. Every citizen has to pay the duty to its country and to the government that takes care of the people.



posted on Nov, 30 2009 @ 04:54 PM
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How not to be fooled:

Common tactics: #1
#1 deflect
#2 derail
#3 redirect
#4 Insult

#5 Start over......(Pg 23 in ATS covert op manual)



posted on Nov, 30 2009 @ 05:52 PM
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Originally posted by Donny 4 million
Just look at the last few posts and see the definition of side track off
topic, bla bla, spin crap, that this thread is all about.
Proof positive.
Could even be a busted down droid computer.

[edit on 30-11-2009 by Donny 4 million]


You never thought about questionning your own premises, did you, Donny? All you got was a T-Shirt with nothing on it.



posted on Nov, 30 2009 @ 06:20 PM
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Originally posted by RipCurl
10,000 pages is very easy to get through. Better start reading.


Right, they need ten thousand pages to explain something that is not terribly complicated to begin with. I am not going to say they got everything wrong because that would be false but why the need for an entire tome, probably larger than encyclopedia britanica?

Could the objective be TO CONFUSE rather than inform? Besides all it takes is one or two major errors to make the entire report IRRELLAVENT!


Originally posted by RipCurl

For example, even if the steel girders did not melt and instead buckled that would mean the tower would lean over and fall to either side.


what lateral force would cause the tower to lean?

Please provided you reasoning to believe that the tower (well, the top sections of each building) would lean?


Self explanatory, you don't even need to be an engineer to understand this. The planes crashed in the mid to upper levels of each respective tower, which means columns and truces below that level should not be affected at all. Yes there was an uncontrollable fire raging for about an hour burning jet fuel and office furniture, but the damage would be LIMITED LOCALLY and only that section would collapse.

How would it collapse? The damaged area would simply dislodge from the rest of the tower and fall to the weak side. IT IS ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE to buckle(or melt) the exterior and interior frame in such a manner to cause the entire building to implode on its own signature. I am 110% certain in this!

Only strategically placed explosives can accomplish that, and even then many times demolition experts get the timing wrong and the building implodes at a slight angle rather than straight down.

[edit on 30-11-2009 by EarthCitizen07]



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