Swiss voters favour minaret ban: exit polls

Originally posted by mmiichael
Muslims now occupy and control 99% of the Middle East. Jews and Christians are barely tolerated in most countries, and totally prohibited from entry in many.

Please list these countries (with valid sources)..

Just goes to show you how little I know... Here I thought you were talking about clothing when it was really about that half moon looking thing D'oh!

Well in light of these new facts... I'm all for a ban, what if one fell off and boomeranged a passerby?

Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by merkava

When Muslims came to Western countries initially they showed they understood and respected the unwritten rules of immigration. Things were done differently and everyone was expected to do their best to conform to basic rules and norms that were integral to the society.

A critical mass has developed in many countries and the new attitude is unacceptance and even outright hostility to the host country.

You telling me when muslims came to the West at that time they never followed their religion strictly and never built any mosques? You telling me that the West didn't know how they breed and how their population size increases with time? Wasn't the take over of middle-east and asia big examples?

Again i repeat my question.Didn't the West look at the history of Islam since its birth before they let muslims in their countries? I mean you're the same people who keep bringing up islamic history to prove your point right?

Majority Muslims follow the laws and rules in the western countries they live in.They have got their own social system,huge communities with strong family bonds and materialism isn't their ultimate aim.

You seem to share the same resentment and threatening stance.

Why did people like you start jumping up and down after 9/11 against muslims?

At the end of the day the swiss only banned the minarets not the building of mosques itself.In UK you see many churches going on sale and converted to mosques.Is it muslims fault? I remember on sky news when the reporter asked BNP leader 'do you go church every sunday?' and he couldn't remember the last time he went to church.

Denmark became a little bull dog trying to bite muslims.When the boycot started their economy started to go down the toilet bowl.

Business, oil, gas and other natural resources are important things you know.

They call it 'Global village' for a reason.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
Now back to the Cathedral issue. Do you have a link to a new "Cathedral" in a Muslim country?

www.uaeinteract.com...

Here's another new one in Dubai:



Here's a new (HUGE) one in Indonesia:

www.gospelherald.net...

[edit on 30-11-2009 by rhinoceros]

Originally posted by merkava

Majority Muslims follow the laws and rules in the western countries they live in.They have got their own social system,huge communities with strong family bonds and materialism isn't their ultimate aim.

I do not view this as a Muslim bashing thread, I see it mostly as anti PC, restore the status quo train of thought

but here lies the dilemna

Muslims are taught to follow their beliefs first above all else, regardless of what country they reside, we in the west are taught to respect our nationality above all else. these are completely at odds.

due to the radicalisation of Imams and mosques the very social system you describe becomes an issue. and along with our wonderful misguideed politics and fervant press, it develops social isolation and non inclusion. division. that then becomes a perceived threat, & further insecurities.

I guess many here are confused with the meaning of the words "Cathedral" and Church.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
I guess many here are confused with the meaning of the words "Cathedral" and Church.

The last one is even called "Katedral Mesias" so yeah.. somebody is confused.. you. Anyways I proved you wrong. Haahaahaa :p

Originally posted by rhinoceros

The last one is even called "Katedral Mesias" so yeah.. somebody is confused.. you. Anyways I proved you wrong. Haahaahaa :p

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e28381c77e55.jpg[/atsimg]

Originally posted by merkava
You telling me when muslims came to the West at that time they never followed their religion strictly and never built any mosques? You telling me that the West didn't know how they breed and how their population size increases with time? Wasn't the take over of middle-east and asia big examples?

Again i repeat my question.Didn't the West look at the history of Islam since its birth before they let muslims in their countries? I mean you're the same people who keep bringing up islamic history to prove your point right?

Majority Muslims follow the laws and rules in the western countries they live in.They have got their own social system,huge communities with strong family bonds and materialism isn't their ultimate aim.

I'm not telling you anything. You want to take a 'Muslims are being persecuted' spin on everything - that's your problem. You're not the first or the last to say the same thing.

In fact Muslims, particularly women, have a better deal in the West than they had in Muslim countries. Enforced legal rights, personal freedoms, humane treatment for all, voting rights, social security net, non-religious education for all, etc, etc.

You'll never get it but people don't like it when someone comes in as a guest and starts criticizing their hosts.

No one asked questions of what Islam was like. Muslims made it clear what they do and don't accept.

The option always exists to live in a Muslim country where one doesn't have to suffer materialism and 'weak' family bonds.

Why don't Muslims just immigrate to the other 50 Muslim countries? You think maybe materialism and personal choices of lifestyle make for better places to live?

Originally posted by osc121

Originally posted by merkava

I do not view this as a Muslim bashing thread, I see it mostly as anti PC, restore the status quo train of thought

Threads like this should than remain ONLY anti-pc than instead of turning into islam bashing rounds.

Muslims are taught to follow their beliefs first above all else, regardless of what country they reside, we in the west are taught to respect our nationality above all else. these are completely at odds.

3rd time i will repeat my question.

Why did the West allow muslims into their lands when they exactly knew what islam was all about?Wasn't middle-east and asia prime examples?

The West clearly knew about the 'odds' you mentioned.

due to the radicalisation of Imams and mosques the very social system you describe becomes an issue. and along with our wonderful misguideed politics and fervant press, it develops social isolation and non inclusion. division. that then becomes a perceived threat, & further insecurities.

Again whose at fault? Muslims or the government thats funding groups like hizb-ut-tahrir and the likes?

You'll never get it but people don't like it when someone comes in as a guest and starts criticizing their hosts.

Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by merkava

I'm not telling you anything. You want to take a 'Muslims are being persecuted' spin on everything - that's your problem. You're not the first or the last to say the same thing.

I love the way you put a spin to things and deflect off the main point im tryna make.

In fact Muslims, particularly women, have a better deal in the West than they had in Muslim countries. Enforced legal rights, personal freedoms, humane treatment for all, voting rights, social security net, non-religious education for all, etc, etc.

On one side you claim that muslim women love western freedom and enjoy socialising with men in clubs wearing mini-skirts and on the other side you claim these same women are radicalized in the West wearing burka giving birth to a dozen kids to Islamify the West.

So which one you gona pick?

You'll never get it but people don't like it when someone comes in as a guest and starts criticizing their hosts.

Whose criticizing who? You really think those few extremists with banners represent all muslims.

Why after 9/11 people like you started to jump up and down against muslims? Were you asleep before 9/11 or were you waiting for the right moment to spout out your anti-islam rhetoric?

No one asked questions of what Islam was like. Muslims made it clear what they do and don't accept.

What evidence you have showing that muslims chosed not to build mosques and pray to Allah 5 times a day when they moved to west?

Why don't Muslims just immigrate to the other 50 Muslim countries? You think maybe materialism and personal choices of lifestyle make for better places to live?

Why don't non-muslim contractors and armies immigrate outa muslim countries?

Originally posted by osc121

Originally posted by merkava
I see muslim bashers making the most out of this thread.

I just want to ask one simple question.

Why did the europeans allow the muslims to immigrate to their countries when they fully knew what islam was all about?

Surely they weren't ignorant of hundreds of years of islamic rule in other countries right?

The influence of right wingers seems to be growing in europe and If things carry on like this i can see alot more kosovo and chechnya scenarios rising ahead.

Keeping in mind that every 1 in 4 human that exists on this planet is a muslim.

www.timesonline.co.uk...

I can only speak from experience here in the UK, although I have served in the military in a few muslim countires and in Germany where they have immigration issues with Turks

I am glad that the Swiss people have been given an option for the direction of their communities and lifestyle. YES THEIR communities.

the above link proves what deceit and depths our UK government is prepared to go to change the social fabric and cohesion of the very country they are supposed to represent. This post is predominantly about choice. A choice that should be given to the people, but here in the UK it clearly has not, at least for the past 14 years.

So I applaud the Swiss for the strength to slow down the rate of change. This is not racist or discriminatory, it is just a nation at long last denying the muticultural myth that everyone gets along just fine.

Multiculturalism is a short term fix for migrants to move in and out of an area, changing it forever, to the detriment of the long term history, values and culture of the existing populous.

@ merkava

I think you missed this post in this very thread.

If i read between the lines correctly you are blaming subsequent governments and political failings for the growth of not just Islam , but also islamophobia

isn't that the point i was trying to make with this post? have you read the link?

reply to post by pavil

Not to play Devil's advocate here, but is that the way you want freedom of religion to go?

Just because one nation deny's full freedom of worship, do you want to be just like them? Does that make you better?

It's not what I want. The Swiss voted on this.

Unless I am missing something the vote had nothing to do with restricting religion. They are still able to continue to worship the way they please.

Why did the europeans allow the muslims to immigrate to their countries when they fully knew what islam was all about?

Because

a) they have a soft spot for being kind and humanitarian-oriented
b) they underestimated who they were dealing with
c) lack of foresight

This now needs to be corrected.

Go Suisse!

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Why did the europeans allow the muslims to immigrate to their countries when they fully knew what islam was all about?

Because

a) they have a soft spot for being kind and humanitarian-oriented
b) they underestimated who they were dealing with
c) lack of foresight

O Really? Or was it because they didn't have enough labour to work in their factories?

Go Suisse

Don't get too happy they only banned the minarets.Any more bans and they will suffer badly like the Danes.

Originally posted by merkava

Don't get too happy they only banned the minarets.Any more bans and they will suffer badly like the Danes.

Is this a threat? I think it is. It only shows that making the Islamists unwelcome in the developed, free and democratic world is a good idea. The less comfortable they feel, the better. Let Europeans stick to their heritage and let those who don't share same views go to Morocco or elsewhere.

Originally posted by merkava

Don't get too happy they only banned the minarets.Any more bans and they will suffer badly like the Danes.

Get a grip...

They only made a public vote not to allow the minarets not ban the religion. I never understood why a people would leave their country in search of change who then take advantage of their new countries freedoms and use those freedoms to create something similar to what they left in the first place.

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by merkava

Don't get too happy they only banned the minarets.Any more bans and they will suffer badly like the Danes.

I think it is. It only shows that making the Islamists unwelcome in the developed, free and democratic world is a good idea.

The muslims in kosovo never left even after facing the genocide.And now they have something called KOSOVA a muslim country of their own.

Hope you understand what i mean.

The less comfortable they feel, the better. Let Europeans stick to their heritage and let those who don't share same views go to Morocco or elsewhere.

Getin angry are we?

The day you chose penny farting to ride to your work, tinder to light up your dinner and wood to heat up your house, that will be the day you can expect muslims to leave europe.

Understand?

Over and Out.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
Is this a threat? I think it is. It only shows that making the Islamists unwelcome in the developed, free and democratic world is a good idea.

A good proportion of the muslims that have in recent years settled in Switzerland are refugees of the US/UK occupation of Iraq. I'm sure they would like to go back to their 'undeveloped' country and rebuild the damage that has been done by the free and democratic world.

reply to post by merkava


western countries let muslims in because western people embrace western culture and democracy assuming they are moving to say switzerland, because they want to be swiss... they want to assimilate into the culture that already exists, not change it. here in america, our children are taught spanish in school. the hispanics in this country are doing what the muslims are doing in europe, they come here, legally or not, then have as many children as they can so as to take advantage of the host countries policies. which you know, is fine, but instead of accepting english or french or german or whatever, they keep thier language, they keep thier culture, etc.. the only reason i can think of for western countries to be so loose about immigration nowadays when theyeve held steadfast for the last couple thousands year is that the nwo is having thier way by globally erasing the nationalist spectrum of countries so that they no longer have an identity and therefore making the world a global community. an example: america 100 years ago was white and black christians mostly... you could tell an american from some other nationality. nowadays you cant... the eruopeans had no problem assimilating into america, asians dont seem to have a problem assimilating into america... why cant other cultures do the same?