It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Book Calls Jewish People an ‘Invention’

page: 1
5

log in

join
share:

posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 05:08 AM
link   
There seems to be no historical record of the expulsion of the Jews in 70Ad. And modern Jews have descended from the Palestinians, so what exactly is "Jewish"?
The idea of unjust exile and rightful return of both the Jews’ and the Palestinians’ conviction that each is entitled to the land. And if Palestinians and Jews descended from the same ethinic group then is Jewish religion entitled to the land, or is Israel for Jews? I think Israel was founded for the Jews but the people in Israel have the same ethinicity as the Palestinians. So Jews may have a religion but I think that the idea of Jewish people does not exist. Is this right?


Despite the fragmented and incomplete historical record, experts pretty much agree that some popular beliefs about Jewish history simply don’t hold up: there was no sudden expulsion of all Jews from Jerusalem in A.D. 70, for instance. What’s more, modern Jews owe their ancestry as much to converts from the first millennium and early Middle Ages as to the Jews of antiquity.

The Israeli Declaration of Independence states: “After being forcibly exiled from their Land, the People kept faith with it throughout their Dispersion and never ceased to pray and hope for their return to it.” The idea of unjust exile and rightful return undergirds both the Jews’ and the Palestinians’ conviction that each is entitled to the land.


Source: www.nytimes.com...

[edit on 29-11-2009 by sunny_2008ny]




posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 05:14 AM
link   
reply to post by sunny_2008ny
 

Romans 2:28-29 "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."




posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 05:17 AM
link   
Assuming Jesus of the NT is real, I wonder what would happen if the Palestinians started worshiping him and accepted him as their messiah...

S*F for the OP.

[edit on 29-11-2009 by EMPIRE]



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 05:31 AM
link   

Originally posted by EMPIRE
Assuming Jesus of the NT is real, I wonder what would happen if the Palestinians started worshiping him and accepted him as their messiah...

S*F for the OP.

[edit on 29-11-2009 by EMPIRE]


Some Palestinians ARE Christian.


There you go.



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 05:34 AM
link   
In Jersulaem, Jews are staying with Palestinians, and it is impossible to separate the Jews from Palestinians. Then what would you call the Palestinain people, Israeli? or Jewish or Arabs?



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 05:35 AM
link   

Originally posted by TheOneElectric

Originally posted by EMPIRE
Assuming Jesus of the NT is real, I wonder what would happen if the Palestinians started worshiping him and accepted him as their messiah...

S*F for the OP.

[edit on 29-11-2009 by EMPIRE]


Some Palestinians ARE Christian.


There you go.


The majority AREN'T and the question asked has a lot to do with scriptures/verses pertaining to the jews accepting the messiah and nothing to really do with Christianity.



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 05:52 AM
link   
Some interesting excerpts from your link:


Professor Sand, a scholar of modern France, not Jewish history, candidly states his aim is to undercut the Jews’ claims to the land of Israel by demonstrating that they do not constitute “a people,” with a shared racial or biological past. The book has been extravagantly denounced and praised, often on the basis of whether or not the reader agrees with his politics.



Since Professor Sand’s mission is to discredit Jews’ historical claims to the territory, he is keen to show that their ancestry lines do not lead back to ancient Palestine. He resurrects a theory first raised by 19th-century historians, that the Jews of Central and Eastern Europe, to whom 90 percent of American Jews trace their roots, are descended from the Khazars, a Turkic people who apparently converted to Judaism and created an empire in the Caucasus in the eighth century.




Professor Sand accuses Zionist historians from the 19th century onward — the very same scholars on whose work he bases his case — of hiding the truth and creating a myth of shared roots to strengthen their nationalist agenda. He explains that he has uncovered no new information, but has “organized the knowledge differently.” In other words, he is doing precisely what he accuses the Zionists of — shaping the material to fit a narrative.



(Though no final consensus has emerged on the ancestral link between Palestinians and Jews, Harry Ostrer, director of the Human Genetics Program at New York University Langone Medical Center, who has been studying the genetic organization of Jews, said, “The assumption of lineal descent seems reasonable.”)



Very difficult to get a sense of an unbiased study, isn't it? I don't think the author of this book is by any means the first to rearrange data to fit their thesis, if that's what he did, but it's a bit troublesome when posed as a "study".

Very interesting, OP, THANKS!



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 07:18 AM
link   
Sad situation all around. So, many Jews hate those they hold hostage thinking them to be not Jewish and to be treated worse then dogs. But, they are the same people...as we all are.

Too much hate and not enough enlightnment!



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 10:15 AM
link   
Since we have considered this, I would like to approach this from an alternative angle in response to this post.

Despite the apparent hate filled veiw many have for the Jew, or better said, my brother Judah, it should be noted several points made here are infact fabrications.

Truthfully speaking, from the Day GOD gave the Promised Land to Israel, Judah has always remained in the Israel. Certainly hardship, slavery, and murder has occured to some of the population of Judea by any and/or most of the overlords who invaded the land since, but, some have never left.


....However, there is a preliminary historical fact that must be established now. There has never been a civilization or a nation referred to as "Palestine" and the very notion of a "Palestinian Arab nation" having ancient attachments to the Holy Land going back to time immemorial is one of the biggest hoaxes ever perpetrated upon the world! There is not, nor has there ever been, a distinct "Palestinian" culture or language. Further, there has never been a Palestinian state governed BY Arab Palestinians in history, nor was there ever a serious Arab-Palestinian national movement until 1964... three years BEFORE the Arabs of "Palestine" lost the West Bank [Judea and Samaria] and Gaza as a result of the 1967 Six-Day War (which the Arabs started). Even the so-called leader of the "Palestinian" people, Yasser Arafat, is EGYPTIAN! In short, the so-called Arab "Palestinians" are a manufactured people...a people with no history and no authenticity... whose sole purpose for existence is to destroy the Jewish State!

Israel first became a nation in 1312 B.C.E., two thousand years before the rise of Islam! Seven hundred and twenty-six years later in 586 B.C.E. these first ancient Jews in the Land of Israel [Judea] were overrun and Israel's First Jewish Temple (on Jerusalem's Old City Temple Mount) was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar, king of ancient Babylon. Many of the Jews were killed or expelled; however many were allowed to remain. These Jews along with their progeny and other Jews who would resettle over the next 500 years, rebuilt the Nation of Israel and also a Second Temple in Jerusalem upon the Temple Mount. Thus the claim that Jews suddenly appeared fifty years ago right after the Holocaust and drove out the Arabs is preposterous!

Then in 70 C.E. (nearly 2000 years ago), it was the Roman Empire's turn to march through ancient Israel and destroy the SECOND Jewish Temple, slaughtering or driving out much of its Jewish population. Many Jews left on their own because conditions for life were made unbearable in many respects... yet thousands upon thousands stayed and rebelled on for centuries in order to once again rebuild a Jewish Nation in this Holy Land.

Over 3250 years, various Peoples, Religions and Empires marched through Jerusalem, Israel's ancient capital. The region was successively ruled by the Hebrews [Jews], Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Maccabeans, Romans, Byzantines, Arabs, Egyptians, the Crusaders, Mamelukes, the Turks (who indifferently governed the backward, neglected territory from the 16th century until the British drove them out during World War I) and then once again by the Jews in 1948. None bothered, nor were they in the least bit inclined, to build a Nation of their own... EXCEPT the Jews!

It must be noted that in 636 C.E., when the Arabs marauders came to the land and uprooted even more of its Jews, they did not form any Arab nation there... and certainly not a "Palestinian" nation. They were simply "Arabs" who, as did others before them, moved into a geo-political area called "Palestine!" And remember this one fact... it was not the Jews who "usurped" (a favorite word from the Arab propagandists) the land from the Arabs. If anything, it was the Arabs in 636 C.E. who overran and stole it from the Jews!


Now some may deem the material offensive, but it is FILLED WITH FACTS, which present TRUTH to a subject where deceptions and lies abound.

The Web Site goes on to offer much more in way of STATING FACTS which we either tend to not consider or are ignorant of, but the portion above was used to remind us, the a part of the population has always been in Israel, since Israel's creation.

In the Babylonian experience, I was under the belief it was the Royal Family and those who served the Temple and the King along with minions and such that where taken to Babylon. Not all of the Jews. Of course the two daughters of the House of David did flee, and sought safe haven in Egypt.

In the Roman occurance, I was again under the impression a Dead Jew paid no tribute to Ceasar, so only those fighting against Rome in a defiant manner where removed.

Certainly it is better to live somewhere else, than remain as a slave, and certainly in both cases some may well have done so.

But NEVER have the Jews, or better said, my brother Judah, fled or been marched out of Israel completely in some 3500 Years of so. Some have always remained awaiting.

Exerpt from www.masada2000.org...

Ciao

Shane



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 11:22 AM
link   

Originally posted by EMPIRE
Assuming Jesus of the NT is real, I wonder what would happen if the Palestinians started worshiping him and accepted him as their messiah...

S*F for the OP.

[edit on 29-11-2009 by EMPIRE]


maybe you should research a little about the Palestinians......
then you wouldn't wonder IF....



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 11:36 AM
link   
reply to post by sunny_2008ny
 



There seems to be no historical record of the expulsion of the Jews in 70Ad.



...there was no sudden expulsion of all Jews from Jerusalem in A.D. 70, for instance.


This is confusing to me.

First of all, Jerusalem was overtaken and the temple destroyed under Titus during the Jewish-Roman wars around 70 A.D. This siege is actually very well documented. During this period, the Romans overtook and occupied Judea but many Jews still lived in the area under Roman rule.

Then the official expulsion of the Jews from the land occurred next century around the 130's A.D.

Remember, there was a series of Jewish-Roman wars. It was not a single battle in 70 A.D. and was not when the Jews were officially expelled, beginning the second diaspora. Look into the 'Bar Kokba (sp?) revolt.'

So, the article confused me a bit because they seem to have their timelines skewed to the point it is misleading.

1). There most definitely are historical records of the Jewish wars in the 60/70's A.D. Josephus alone documents them in his extensive work 'The Jewish Wars.'
2). However, although a bit broken up and subdued, the Jews were not officially dispersed.
3). The official and final dispersal came around the 130's A.D. under the Bar Kokba revolt.
4). This is also historically documented.

When they say 'there are no historical records of the 70 A.D. diaspora' they are being intellectually dishonest, IMO, because this had not occurred at that point yet. That's like saying there were no historical records of the United States existing in 1000 A.D. so it doesn't have a right to exist today. Well, of course there wouldn't be records at that time because that is not when it happened.

[edit on 11/29/2009 by AshleyD]



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 01:27 PM
link   
Well of course the so called Jews are not the real Israelites, they are converts from the Khazar Empire who are descendants of the Edomites.
They stole the identity of the true Jews, the blacks in America that were in the slave trade. Natives and Hispanics make up the rest of Israelite tribes for the most part.

Theres a movie on Khazar Jews I posted before.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Also it's strange NY Times would make that article when not that long ago they had a big article saying %90 of Jews claiming to be Jews are not of Semitic decent at all and are all just converts.

[edit on 29-11-2009 by buds84]



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 04:05 PM
link   
reply to post by baphomet420
 


I'll have to clarify further, because you don't get it even though I have another reply that basically explains why the question was asked (and yes it's based on assuming one knows about the doctrine/dogma) Yes, we know there are Christian Palestinians, however the majority are not Christian, this is fact. Generally speaking, it is accepted that "the jews" do not embrace Jesus/Yeshua as their mashiach/messiah, and also generally accepted amongst most Christian sects that "the jews" will eventually call upon him and embrace him when all else fails. Now look at what is being stated about Palestinians (in the original post/link) and what I'm asking now. Do you need further clarification or do you get what I'm conveying here?



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 04:38 PM
link   
reply to post by sunny_2008ny
 

Indeed, only a Jew could invent something like the Jews
.
It's an intersting question, also for my thoughts on a lesbi-gay state (although I do attempt to keep the arguments apart).
The received knowledge here is unclear at times: I've been told that the Jews are a religion and not a race, and I've heard the opposite. It seems to be a bit of both. I think one can convert (not an easy process), or having a Jewish mother qualifies one as such. I've read so many arguments on the "mysterious" Khazars and counter-arguments - it's futile. The fact is that the Jewish people do exist; and they exist as a clearly identified entity that precedes virtually all modern nation-states. Sadly, oppression often drives us to definition. If a Nazi holocaust happened today most Jews and homosexuals would be pointed out immediately. I think that sad fact says it all.

[edit on 29-11-2009 by halfoldman]



new topics

top topics



 
5

log in

join