Why would finding water surprise us ?

Please don't get me wrong , I do understand the importance of finding water on places such as the Moon , Mars , ext .. but why does this " surprise " us ? Water , after all , is what you get when you mix hydrogen with a bit of oxygen . One would think that water may / could / should , be found any place , as long as its not so hot where as it would simply boil the liquid away , no ?

Some scientist years ago postulated that water couldn't exist without the planet or moon havin an atmosphere or somesuch. It was accepted and became "fact" without proof.

Scientists as a group are pretty hard on anyone within the group who bucks a generally held opinion.

Many will try to hold on to their own preconceived notions as long as they can.

May I refer you to comets. Our friendly stellar balls of ice/water and dust.
What would surprise scientists is a very substantial amount of water. say an ocean. They seem pretty certain that water exists on the moon via comet impacts, but not in great amounts.

Space is infinite, as far as we know anyway. We know more about space than we do our own planet's oceans. The age-old "98% of the ocean unexplored" saying, of course..

Certainly shouldn't be surprising. Of course there is water elsewhere, of course there is life elsewhere. "Space" is unbelievably vast, it's not even possible to conceive of the number of planets and stars. Just not possible.

The "obsession" with water on the moon or any other planet in our system seems like a deliberate suppression of knowledge. Why should we even be focused on the moon in the first place? Why is it any speculative theories are scoffed at? Is the moon hollow, what 'really' happened to it's surface.. etc. *Scoff* and, "You know nothing, shut up." is the typical response by officials. Yet we're led to believe that their top projects consist of finding water on the moon?

Am I the only one who feels public knowledge is deliberately ignorant and painfully simple, for the sole purpose of leading us nowhere?

I guess its the fact that if a planet or satellite (Moon) has signs of water, then it has the possibility to harvest life or has once been home to life. Weither its simple or advance life.

What people need to realise is that just because humans need such things like water and oxygen to survive, it doesn't mean that other species of life need the same thing. There may be a form of extra-terrestrial who breathe carbon dioxide and need cyanide for sustainance.

The possibilities are endless.

Originally posted by Max_TO
Please don't get me wrong , I do understand the importance of finding water on places such as the Moon , Mars , ext .. but why does this " surprise " us ? Water , after all , is what you get when you mix hydrogen with a bit of oxygen . One would think that water may / could / should , be found any place , as long as its not so hot where as it would simply boil the liquid away , no ?

Remember Op, there are other variables such as Atmospheric pressure. If it is too low it will allow the water molecules to break into its constituent gasses and evaporate into space, so this narrows down the number of suitable planets. Heat is just one factor.


Sailor

The answer is simple, that we where told that god created the earth and humans think they are special, which in the reality of the universe probably is not true.

reply to post by Sailor1


Would this still occur if the temperature was cold enough to freeze the water before this process would " destroy " any such water ?

reply to post by andy1033


Not sure how that applies ?

I have never herd a " religious " person make any such claim about water??

Originally posted by Max_TO
reply to post by Sailor1

 

Would this still occur if the temperature was cold enough to freeze the water before this process would " destroy " any such water ?

No the offset to decreased pressure in a stable system would have to be decreased temperature, this is why Nasa shot the south pole of the moon and not the equator, If we had the atmospheric pressure of Mars with our temperatures we would have alot less water. As temperature decreases the system becomes more stable regardless of pressure. When you observe a comet (which are primarily water ice) they do not start giving off a corona untill they reach the inner system this is because they are being subjected to increased temperatures/radiation from the sun.

Another good example of how pressure effects the state of gasses is methane, our atmosphere contains roughly 2000 PPB of Methane, however if you go to the bottom of the worlds oceans you will find it in a solid form known as Methane Hydrate, this is due to the increased pressures, bring a chunk to the surface and it quickly melts and evaporates as a result of increased temp and decreased Atmospheric pressure.



Sailor

[edit on 29-11-2009 by Sailor1]

So if I were to take a snap pole of the given posts so far , would I be correct in saying that most tend to agree , there is no surprise that we are finding water / ice " out there " ?



[edit on 29-11-2009 by Max_TO]

Originally posted by Max_TO
So if I were to take a snap pole of the given posts so far , would I be correct in saying that most tend to agree , there is no surprise that we are finding water " out there " ?

Yes water should be abundant given the correct balance of pressure and temperature...


Sailor

I am reminded of that Star Trek Voyager episode where the crew stumbles across a planet made entirely of water .

We find water just about everywhere we look for it, including interstellar space. Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the galaxy (universe?). It combines very easily with oxygen to create water. H2O is a very stable molecule, it also is a wonderful solvent. Being such a good solvent, it is a good aid to production of more complex compounds, organic compounds.

The problem is that the only water we've found, other than on Earth, has been in its frozen state or its gaseous state. It is its liquid state that it can do most of its tricks. We have not found liquid water anywhere else (but we have some good candidates).

It was a surprise to find water on the Moon. It was thought that, over time, any water which would have existed there would have been stripped away by the solar wind. We now know that, hidden in the places where the Sun doesn't shine, where it is very very cold, water ice does exist. We don't know exactly where it came from but it is so cold where we found it that it can last for millions, if not billions of years. More puzzling is the traces of water found at higher latitudes on the moon. These areas get exposed to sunlight so the question is, why is it still there?


[edit on 11/29/2009 by Phage]

Originally posted by Max_TO...One would think that water may / could / should , be found any place , as long as its not so hot where as it would simply boil the liquid away , no ?

When we talk about large amounts of water existing on the surface of a body, it's not only the heat, but the atmospheric pressures that prevent it from remaining lquid. For example, Mars is not hot enough for water to boil away (in fact it's quite freezing), but water ice that is exposed on the surface of Mars quickly evaporates (sublimates). Ice exposed to the Sun on Mars gets enough energy to tranform from it's frozen state (even in the cold temperatures), but the pressure is too low for it to be liquid. Water exposed to a vacuum here on Earth would "boil away", even at room temperature.

HAVING SAID THAT...I agree that we should no longer be surprised to find water in our solar system, nor should we be surprised to find water elsewhere in our galaxy (in fact I started a thread a year or so ago that asked the same question -- but it's all good , since my thread was so long ago).

The idea that water would be rare is an old way of thinking that still persists among most people. Scientists are now learning that the opposite may be true -- that ou solar system is very rich in water, and that water may be a very common molecule throughout our galaxy (and perhaps the universe in general). The cloud of dust and gas that would eventually become our solar system was probably rich in water to begin with, and other protoplanetary disks.

Scientists have run various models of the formation of solar systems from protoplanetary disks (from what we know about other protoplanetary disks) and have found that water-rich planets would be a common thing. Infact, these scientists think that the earth is actually water-poor compared to their models for planetary formation (the Earth is less than 1% water -- that's the WHOLE Earth, not just the Earth's surface).

The molecule "H2O" may not be uncommon in the universe, but liquid water may still be uncommon. The window for the right temperature and atmospheric condition for liquid water to exist is a small one. Although, at the same time, planets in the galaxy may be very abundant, so the odds are still pretty favorable for liquid water to exist. Using spectroscopic analysis, the H2O molecule has been detected in abundance throughout the galaxy and the universe.

oops!. double post -- sorry.

[edit on 11/30/2009 by Soylent Green Is People]