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A serious question should people with HIV be tattooed??

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posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 05:45 AM
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Originally posted by tothetenthpower

EDIT TO ADD: I just read the last line of your thread....YOU are crazy if you think we should tatoo people who have HIV. Gee, I guess we can sure pick out the jews after WWII huh?

Give me a break


~Keeper

[edit on 11/28/2009 by tothetenthpower]

[edit on 11/28/2009 by tothetenthpower]


I'm not fond of the idea of tattooing anyone for ANY reason but I think it's a bit much for you to liken this idea to the Jews. I see where you're trying to go but it's terribly fellacious.

There are huge differences between the two.




posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 06:00 AM
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reply to post by MAC269
 


why are you bothering to ask people what they think, when you already know they think your nuts?

why come here and ask for people's opinions, when all you want ot do is tell them how clueless they are for not agreeing with you?

nah. you're just a troll with a messiah complex.

and thank you for finally confessing your bigotry towards americans.



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 06:54 AM
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reply to post by MAC269
 


I think that in order for your idea to work, everyone would need to be on board and that is not going to happen. Someone is going to have to be held down an inked. I am not for that. Forcing harm to another living being is not good for you or them.
I think that people with HIV should take precautions and have open dialog with people they have relationships and contact with. As should everyone else.
I vote no.



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 07:24 AM
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Sure why not give HIV + folks a tattoo? While we're at it, people with genital herpes should get a big H tattoed on their forehead. Hepatitis C folks could get a big C tatooed on their foreheads.

Yeah, let's bring back the scarlet letter again.


If people are socially irresponsible and spread their DNA around without thinking of the consequences, then they reap what they sow. A stupid tattoo isn't going to stop them.



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 07:42 AM
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I'd be all for tattooing people with aids below the belly button if it would save lives. However it wouldn't.

What it would do is give people a reason to never get diagnosed, to stay right away from doctors.

So you'd have the non-infected stopping using condoms because they could tell their partner was not a risk to them, and you'd have more AIDS infected people running round undiagnosed and untreated.

Even if every person diagnosed with AIDS got tattooed it wouldn't help much. You can have AIDS for quite a while before you feel ill, and tests for it can't detect it in its early stages. So there will always be some people on the sex scene who have AIDS and don't even know it themselves.

If people these days want to play Russian roulette with their lives by having sex with people they don't know well, they'll just have to accept that the risk of dying is now added to the risk of their partner being underage or a complete arsehole, getting, or making the partner, pregnant, catching STDs . . .



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 08:36 AM
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reply to post by MAC269
 


Hi MAC269. I think it is excellent you are able to admit you made a mistake in your thinking. Not many people are able to step up and admit they were wrong.

I appreciate you are concerned about the spread of AIDS through unscrupulous persons. But consider the implications of taking such a huge step such as this. Where it might lead. If we began a practice such as this, in a few generations we would all be veritably covered in mandatory tatoo's for one reason or another. Hepatitis, as mentioned earlier, among every new thing that comes along.

So the answer is no. Mandatory tatoo's should never become a reality, for any reason whatsoever. Not here, not globally, not anywhere. It infringes too much upon our right to privacy.

I know you were just trying to think of a way to get this virus under control, and stop spreading it. This is not the solution. But keep thinking!



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 08:51 AM
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Imagine we tattoo pedophiles and sex offenders. How many do you think would be violently killed within a matter of months? Well, maybe pedo's deserve it.

Do you not think Hiv'ers are going to be accosted and killed if tattooed? There are quite a few dumbass rednecks out there. Just like the ones that say "lets go beat us up some queers."

What your calling for by way of tattooing is senseless bigotry and violence.

Take responsibility for your self and quit having indiscriminate sex. Get your certified health records and compare with your partner. Otherwise, sex is a game of Russian roulette. There are plenty of STD's and 70% of us have at least some type of std like HPV. Most of which are in your body's system and are dormant.

[edit on 29-11-2009 by brilab45]



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 09:10 AM
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reply to post by MAC269
 


Are you being really serious? Or are you joking?

Please inform me, I have never been so shocked in all my life, that a member of ATS, (did you say you work within an HIV/AIDS Centre)? Would suggest tattooing people whom have been infected?

I think you seriously need to change your line of work. How many of the clients whom come to the centre for help, know your views. I for one woukd be advising them to go elsewhere.

What next, tattoo people who have, measels, the flu? As one other poster put it, you remind me of Hitler. Absolutely shocking to say the least.



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 09:21 AM
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reply to post by MAC269
 


Dear Mac269:
MADD is Mothers Against Drunk Driving. But what you are not realizing is the cost of such. Tattooing people with HIV will only send people underground instead of getting treatment, and create a blackmarket, where they will end up getting falsified paperwork for their health.
If you want to cut the progression of the disease, then there are several means to do such:
1) Put pressure on the government to where they can move their vast resources to cure this disease. If history tells us anything, then it states that when a government finds the need to cure something, it gets cured. Want an example, take POLIO. The cure for Polio was not do to someone thinking they could get rich, but was started by the stroke of a pen, namely FDR, who put into action, not by an act of Congress, but rather an executive order, demanding that a cure be found. In less than a generation (About 18 years) there was a cure for that disease and now all of us live in a world without the fear of that dreaded disease.
2) More education for the young people. They need to know about the consequences of what will happen with having unprotected sex. Pictures are a good deteriance. You want to shock someone, then show them the advanced stages of the disease and tell them what happens. Too many people, parents, don't take the time to inform, or to ensure that their children know what can be caught. I know it is harse, and probably rough, but may seem cruel, but what is more cruel, letting think that it will be alright, or waking them up to the harsh realities of the world?



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 04:30 PM
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reply to post by MAC269
 


Why stop with HIV people? Why not tatoo rapists, paedophiles and thieves. Hey and after that tatoo racists! Yeah i'm liking this and after that we can start tatooing certain groups we don't agree with, maybe Muslims, Liberals and those damn annoying trainspotters!

Wait hasn't this happened somewhere before in history? Different groups but i'm sure it's familiar.


No we shouldn't tatoo people with HIV, just encourage them to use a condom and inform their partner. Many HIV sufferers do this already and as the condition becomes more socially acceptable then the use of protection will increase. The biggest part however of stopping the spread of HIV is simply to teach kids, at a young age that they must use a condom and if their partner says no then simply tell him you won't have sex.



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 07:28 PM
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Originally posted by Rocketgirl
reply to post by MAC269
 


You can stop with the whole U.S.A thing. The ideas people are throwing out on this thread can be use in other areas in the world and not just the U.S. Your tattoo idea is insane. If this idea was to take off, then it would be like World War II all over again. A group of people shouldn't be singled out just because they have Aids or any other disease.

I can't believe that you had the nerve to bring up such a foolish idea.


Too bad we cant take away your stars.



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 08:03 PM
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Well I think it would be awful to do this to them. Yet in reality doing so might bring HIV to its knees. You see we cannot trust them all to do the right thing and not have sex with people who do not have HIV.

None of them are bad people and branding them is an absolute horrific thing to do, but I think it should be done to protect and possibly eliminate further infections at least reduce it.

If I had HIV I would wear a Tatoo, and I also would not have sex with anyone that also did not have HIV.

Identifying people with a contagious deadly disease is not the same as racial profiling or marking them as inferior.

It is certainly a dreadful reality to do, but it would save lives and that should out weigh the negative aspects of branding people with contagious disease.

Sometimes doing the right thing is a choice of two bad things.



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 08:10 PM
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Originally posted by Rocketgirl
Mac, do you really work with Aids patients? If really did work with them,then you wouldn't have brought up the tattoo idea. Hitler had the same idea, but with the Jews.


The intent of this thread is to prevent the spread of a disease that has already killed more than 30 million people. I dont think your comparison is valid.

Godwin's law
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Mike Godwin, formulator of the "law".

Godwin's Law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies)[1] is a humorous observation made by Mike Godwin in 1990 which has become an Internet adage. It states: "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."[2][3]

Godwin's Law is often cited in online discussions as a deterrent against the use of arguments in the widespread reductio ad Hitlerum form. The rule does not make any statement about whether any particular reference or comparison to Adolf Hitler or the Nazis might be appropriate, but only asserts that the likelihood of such a reference or comparison arising increases as the discussion progresses. It is precisely because such a comparison or reference may sometimes be appropriate, Godwin has argued[4] that overuse of Nazi and Hitler comparisons should be avoided, because it robs the valid comparisons of their impact.

Although in one of its early forms Godwin's Law referred specifically to Usenet newsgroup discussions,[5] the law is now applied to any threaded online discussion: electronic mailing lists, message boards, chat rooms, and more recently blog comment threads, wiki talk pages, and social networking sites.



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 08:17 PM
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This is a general answer to a lot of suggestions that are impractical.

Simply because I do not want to keep repeating myself.

Suggestion : Tattoos would not work because they could be hidden.

I am suggesting that a small tattoo that would be hidden by swim ware be applied in the same place on all HIV infected people, any idea of hiding it will be fruitless as people would know what was being hidden.

Suggestion : HIV is not the cause of AIDS.

If for no other reason this is grounds for this discussion. The vast majority of the medical profession around the world say it is. People believing this are in danger.

Suggestion : Tattoo everyone with all sorts of infections.

Most of the suggestion are silly at best. Most infection suggested are here today cured and gone tomorrow. HIV is not it is a special case. It is most likely that a person infected with HIV will carry it for at least 5 years before the AIDS stage develops and that person starts to become ill. In 5 years it is possible to infect hundreds if not thousands of other people. Believe me where I am this in no exaggeration. Some not all by any means are a walking bomb.

That being the case the human rights of everyone else needs to be considered.

Suggestion : Compulsory tattooing will stop people taking a test for HIV.

It is true that this could be a problem, however certainly where I am most infected people do not get a test until the fall ill in the AIDS stage anyway. The problem comes if they recover of which there is about a 50% chance then go out and start infecting everybody else.

Suggestion : That my idea is no different than that of Hitler concerning the Jewish people of Europe in the 1940’s.

First off Hitler’s idea was to mark the Jews for easy identification and extermination.
My reasoning is that it will save lives, maybe even your life or that of your children and go a long way to eradicating the problem.

Suggestion : A vaccine has already been developed and a cure is on the way so there is no problem.

An extremely dangerous suggestion indeed. Because first of all it is not really true. There have been studies by the US military that have been according to there tests 30% effective. The test criteria was not good enough and even by there test standers 70% where infected. Condoms are around 95% effective so there is no effective cure or vaccine at this time or indeed for the foreseeable future.

Suggestion : Give away feed condoms.

While condoms are very effective it is being done all the time and is not working in really bring down the new infection rate especially among the young.

Suggestion : Education about the infection and the teaching of moral values.

At the center we do this all the time and while I applaud the effort it is not being very effective on it’s own. Too many people and not enough time.

Suggestion : We already give too much power to government and that this sort of power in the wrong hands is a really bad idea.

This is a very good point and for sure is by far the very best argument against my suggestion.

These are some of the many suggestion that I have been given by people who I believe genuinely care about the situation. If I have missed any I will add them to a new post as I remember them or they come up again.

A lot of you will be very glad to know that I have no power where I volunteer because you hate the very idea of my suggestion. Guess what I don’t want the power I am not god and I do not have any messiah complex. I am a guy like many of you who see’s a problem and knows the whole story not just the press releases and can only see one possibility working. Give me a better idea that is what this thread is about.



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 08:24 PM
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reply to post by woodwardjnr
 


Dear woodwardjnr

From woodwardjnr

“Can you imagine being diagnosed with HIV?, imagine telling your friends, your fammily. the stigma alone is surely torture enough. Then imagine having to be tagged for having a disease.

Can you imagine how the tattooed will be treated by the rest of society?”

Yes I can been there and done that. The fact that I was found to be negative brought me in the end to the center where I could help. Have a look at my last post with suggestion and the answers that I give while you will most likely still disagree with me that is ok but it will give you a better idea of the problem that we all face.



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 08:29 PM
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reply to post by staple
 


Dear staple

From staple

“Can you imagine being diagnosed with HIV?, imagine telling your friends, your fammily. the stigma alone is surely torture enough. Then imagine having to be tagged for having a disease.

Can you imagine how the tattooed will be treated by the rest of society I think that in order for your idea to work, everyone would need to be on board and that is not going to happen. Someone is going to have to be held down an inked. I am not for that. Forcing harm to another living being is not good for you or them.
I think that people with HIV should take precautions and have open dialog with people they have relationships and contact with. As should everyone else.
I vote no.”

Yes I think you are right everybody or at least a good majority would have to agree.
For reasons I have outlined in the post above I have sever misgivings as well but someone has to do something so give me a better idea.



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 08:38 PM
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reply to post by Kailassa
 


Dear Kailassa

From Kailassa

“I'd be all for tattooing people with aids below the belly button if it would save lives. However it wouldn't.

What it would do is give people a reason to never get diagnosed, to stay right away from doctors.

So you'd have the non-infected stopping using condoms because they could tell their partner was not a risk to them, and you'd have more AIDS infected people running round undiagnosed and untreated.

Even if every person diagnosed with AIDS got tattooed it wouldn't help much. You can have AIDS for quite a while before you feel ill, and tests for it can't detect it in its early stages. So there will always be some people on the sex scene who have AIDS and don't even know it themselves.

If people these days want to play Russian roulette with their lives by having sex with people they don't know well, they'll just have to accept that the risk of dying is now added to the risk of their partner being underage or a complete arsehole, getting, or making the partner, pregnant, catching STDs ..”

No you can HIV for years before it turns into AIDS at which time you know you are sick and everyone can see it.

So it a no to a tattoo for the HIV infected so what is the answer we are all in this together like it or not. That is unless you avoid SEX altogether, most of our female patents are married women and have only had sex with there husbands.



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 08:45 PM
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reply to post by ladyinwaiting
 


Dear ladyinwaiting

From ladyinwaiting

“Hi MAC269. I think it is excellent you are able to admit you made a mistake in your thinking. Not many people are able to step up and admit they were wrong.

I appreciate you are concerned about the spread of AIDS through unscrupulous persons. But consider the implications of taking such a huge step such as this. Where it might lead. If we began a practice such as this, in a few generations we would all be veritably covered in mandatory tatoo's for one reason or another. Hepatitis, as mentioned earlier, among every new thing that comes along.

So the answer is no. Mandatory tatoo's should never become a reality, for any reason whatsoever. Not here, not globally, not anywhere. It infringes too much upon our right to privacy.

I know you were just trying to think of a way to get this virus under control, and stop spreading it. This is not the solution. But keep thinking!”

Thanks for that at least my second name is not Hitler in your eyes, however please refresh my memory what did I make a mistake about??

I have considered the implication and believe me I do not like them any more than you but we have to stop this infection somehow. I will keep thinking that is what I do but don’t you stop either.



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 08:51 PM
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reply to post by brilab45
 


Dear brilab45

From brilab45

“Imagine we tattoo pedophiles and sex offenders. How many do you think would be violently killed within a matter of months? Well, maybe pedo's deserve it.

Do you not think Hiv'ers are going to be accosted and killed if tattooed? There are quite a few dumbass rednecks out there. Just like the ones that say "lets go beat us up some queers."

What your calling for by way of tattooing is senseless bigotry and violence.

Take responsibility for your self and quit having indiscriminate sex. Get your certified health records and compare with your partner. Otherwise, sex is a game of Russian roulette. There are plenty of STD's and 70% of us have at least some type of std like HPV. Most of which are in your body's system and are dormant.”

I am suggesting a small tattoo which would be hidden by a swim suit. This would mean that anybody living with HIV would have to admit to a potential sex partner there infection. How would this lead to the sort of violence that you are suggesting??



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 09:02 PM
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reply to post by Laurauk
 


Dear Laurauk

From Laurauk

“Are you being really serious? Or are you joking?

Please inform me, I have never been so shocked in all my life, that a member of ATS, (did you say you work within an HIV/AIDS Centre)? Would suggest tattooing people whom have been infected?

I think you seriously need to change your line of work. How many of the clients whom come to the centre for help, know your views. I for one woukd be advising them to go elsewhere.

What next, tattoo people who have, measels, the flu? As one other poster put it, you remind me of Hitler. Absolutely shocking to say the least. .”

No I am not joking. However I know the reality of the situation at least here.

As for the people who are here moving to another center sorry but for them it is not possible. The children are here because they are Orphans and they are lucky to be here. There are alternatives but they do not holed a candle to the care and love that they receive at this center.

As for the adults they are here because they have been rejected by there family’s and communities and have no money for care elsewhere. They receive at least the first few cocktails of drugs form the government and the best care possible with about a 50% recovery rate from the depths of the AIDS infection.

I do understand your misgivings about my suggestion but after you have read all the posts on this thread you need to come up with a better idea and not just knock mine.



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