The OP states that without cops, we would all go crazy and society would fall apart..nonsense!

Before there were large police forces, the PEOPLE defended themselves. It is hard for a Brit to imagine, but if everyone was armed, there would be far less crime and assaults and rapes...all of it...far less. An armed society is a polite society...you watch your P's and Q's because you know that whoever you are dealing with is likely armed and prepared to defend himself, his property, and his family.

Cops are gopod for hauling the remains away...or the injured if they live..and writing reports. it is all AFTER the public has acted that they step in...that is the way it USED to be...and there is NO proof at all that society would be less safe if we had fewer cops. If we are armed and trained, the police are an afterthought and not someone we call automatically for the most petty reasons....now idiots call 911 to gripe about fast food!

Sure, cops do perform a few needed functions, and they are helpful in many cases...but not necessary for civilized living, as long as firearms level the playing field.

You must be on the "White" side of the law. I agree there are wonderful officers but the reality is the whole system is corrupt and they are the ground forces. The ones that recycle drugs and guns in low income communitys, the ones that harass and murder. Honestly I can understand the mentality the have in the field , but its not a lawful one.

Excellent post. Star and flag for you.

Many of us are too strongly influenced by the media's attention the the wrongdoing of police. While we should never tolerate any police misconduct, focusing exclusively on the wrongdoing gives us the impression that all the police are corrupt and violent criminals.

Yes, there are some corrupt and violent criminals in the police. However, most of them - the vast majority, better than 99% even here in Chicago - are dedicated, reasonable, and hard-working people doing a dangerous and dirty job.

No one's saying that, just because their jobs are dangerous and nasty, they should be allowed to commit crimes. All they're saying is that, overall, the police do an excellent job. The media just don't report on all the good things the cops do. They skip over the millions of acts of heroism and helpfulness, to focus on a few isolated crimes.

We need to know about these crimes so we can put an end to them. But we also need to understand that most of the police don't do things like that.

The title of this thread is a joke , surely ?
I live in the UK , am 53 years old , and have changed my attitude from respect of the police to utter, utter contempt.
They do nothing to uphold law and order any more, and are just a political tool of Neu Labour.

Originally posted by richierich
The OP states that without cops, we would all go crazy and society would fall apart..nonsense!

Before there were large police forces, the PEOPLE defended themselves. It is hard for a Brit to imagine, but if everyone was armed, there would be far less crime and assaults and rapes...all of it...far less. An armed society is a polite society...you watch your P's and Q's because you know that whoever you are dealing with is likely armed and prepared to defend himself, his property, and his family.

Take a look back before the formalized police srevice and you will find vigilante justice. It was simply a mess. Lots of innocent people got hurt over things they hadn't done, the "justice" was brutal andd often disproportionate. However i find it strange that you say an armed society is a polite one when the USA has one of the highest murder rates. Oh i'm not supporting a ban on firearms and wish they had never been banned here, however your logic does not reflect the evidence.

Originally posted by richierich
Sure, cops do perform a few needed functions, and they are helpful in many cases...but not necessary for civilized living, as long as firearms level the playing field.

The USA has one of the highest rates of firearm ownership and yet also one of the highest rates of murder for a developed country. So you're just utterly wrong. A civilised justice system, whilst not perfect is far superior to the average person with a gun.

You know i wish the police would take a day off, just one day and announce it beforehand. Watch what happens.

[edit on 29-11-2009 by ImaginaryReality1984]

When the OP is criminalised, like is happening to a lot of innocent , law abiding citizens , perhaps his attitude will change.
When the laws keep changing, so that minor '' offences " like putting a bin out on the wrong day for instance make you a criminal, perhaps your wishes will have been fulfilled.

Originally posted by ukmadmax
When the OP is criminalised, like is happening to a lot of innocent , law abiding citizens , perhaps his attitude will change.

I have been randomly stopped and searched a number of times, not something i enjoy and not something i think should exist. The police however simply apply the law, it is not their fault the government makes stupid laws that mess with the lives of innocent civilians. The police do a very tough job and the majority of them tend to do it with respect for innocent people.

Have you seen what the police deal with on a Friday night in so many towns and cities? People swearing at them, spitting at them, getting really angry and yet the police, generally stay calm and talk them down.

Originally posted by ukmadmax
When the laws keep changing, so that minor '' offences " like putting a bin out on the wrong day for instance make you a criminal, perhaps your wishes will have been fulfilled.

You are complaining about the governments move to criminalise as many people as they can, this is nothing to do with the police. The police do not make the laws and i think this is a big part of why so many people on ATS dislike the police. Many of you can't separate the police from the stupid laws that are being made.

Originally posted by FortAnthem



If I was a bank, I'd give the police all the credit I possibly could....At 35% interest, of course.



Seriously, if police want me to give them credit, they need to clean up their own house.

How can you go about saying that most cops are good and there are a "few bad apples" when the "good" majority does NOTHING when they see one of their apples beating on a civilian for no good reason?

What tics me off when seeing all these reports of brutality, is ALMOST ALL of the dirty cops go unpunished. The ones who are punished often get off with a slap on the wrist.

I'm tired of hearing the old "you weren't there, how can you judge the cop" defence. Video doesn't lie, cops do.

The system is set up to encourage police lying on the stand and discourage DA's from pursuing purjury charges against cops.

If a cop were to be caught lying on the stand and charged, EVERY case in which he had testified in the past could be reopened and his testimony would have to be thrown out.

This could cause hundreds of old cases to be overturned. This would result in criminals walking free and innumerable lawsuits against police departments.

Also, the District Attourney, in most areas, is an elected position. If the DA convicts a cop for purjury, he would hand his opponent a political goldmine come election time. Imagine the campeign adds enumerating all of the overturned convictions and resulting lawsuits caused by the incumbant DA.

He wouldn't stand a chance...

The system is set up to discourage the weeding out of bad cops. The legal ramifications would be too great. It's better for them to give the "bad apples" a free ride, turn a blind eye to citizen abuse, and protect their bottom line.

Kinda reminds you of the Catholic bishops, doesn't it.

It all blew up in their faces, and if it continues in law enforcement, it will blow up in their faces as well.

[edit on 28-11-2009 by FortAnthem]

I totally agree with you. That's exactly how the system is set up and the "good" cops allow the bad ones to continue and then say don't blame all of us for a few bad apples. Many times a blame the ones that know and do nothing because they knew it was wrong and saw it was wrong but didn't do anything. They enable this behavior. And our right with the analogy of the Catholic church and the police. For decades in this country everybody knew about what was happening int he church, but they where quiet about it. After evidence and people tired of the hypocrisy started coming out in droves is when the Church had to change and change fast. It will happen to the police also.

The police is not here to keep you and me safe. There's one thing to keep in mind.. The police is a corporation to keep the current system intact. They protect the system, not the people. If they need a fall-guy they'll get one. Since people are part of the system they're limited in what they can do to them, but in the end, it's not the people that are important. It's about making sure money comes in, and anyone that is a threat to the system or the money-bringers, is dealt with.

This is especially the case in the Netherlands and I'm sure it's like this in many other countries as well, since you can get a fine/penalty for any stupid thing. Throwing a piece of paper on the streets can cost you 90 euros here. Having a bike without lights at night, same story. Saying you disagree with the officer is seen as opposition and that gives them the right to drag you along to the station and increase any penalty you might have already had etc..

So, if you want to give the police credit, do so, but remember, it's only their job and what they're supposed to do. It's what they're trained for, and if needed, they will abuse you (not necessarily physically, but certainly financially) to protect the system.

Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint

I know a cop who works in the housing projects. He always works with a partner and they ride in the same car together.

I wish my department had the staff to double up, we have 67 of the 120 that we are supposed to have.

Originally posted by badgerprints
I was talking to my brother who has been a cop for a year now. He tells me that there are a lot of problems with the police and that it is hard to get rid of bad cops because his department is so understaffed and there are way too many crimes for them to handle as it is.

They do get rid of many bad apples but in all they cannot keep up with crime and get rid of everybody.

I asked him why it was so hard to get police officers and why it was so hard to get more good police officers.

The answer?

There aren't enough quality people that have good morals and judgement applying for the academy in the first place. Most of them that are of high moral character are quite frankly having trouble dealing with the fact that they have the worst members of society to deal with every day. Many of them quit because it's just not worth it. Many more go in with the best intentions but find that they can't do the job as proper, straight laced officers and survive the job.
[edit on 29-11-2009 by badgerprints]

I couldn't have put it better myself, of the 14 we sent to the last academy 3 didn't pass, 1 got a broken arm during training. of the 10 that made it through 8 quit within the first 3 months, 1 is an angry ex-jock and the other is excellent...that is what we have to work with.

Secure

Well i have only met one good police officer in my entire life, and he actually knew about the laws he was trying to enforce along with what rights a citizen has. Every other police officer i have met has been on a severe power trip and as thick as a plank. The good to bad ratio from what i have seen gives me all the justification i need to dislike them.

Shall we give credit to the other side, too? I've read many stories of drug dealers and other criminals who gave to charities, supported their local church, and were kind to small children and animals. They have hard and dangerous jobs, too, providing services and products in high demand.

A cop who breaks any law, even the tiniest, is still a lawbreaker. Why should they get a pass? A cop who observes fellow cops breaking the law and does nothing about it is a co-conspirator, equally guilty. How is it that a cop who ruins someone's life over a ridiculous law he or she knows is wrong is somehow different from a criminal who says "nothing personal, just business" as they beat you up and steal from you?

Sorry, I've not a shred of sympathy for them, nor will I give them unearned credit. They chose their job, and knew what they were getting into. If they refuse to arrest their fellow cops because it's too dangerous, that kills any argument that they are brave, or willingly walk into danger.

I will give credit and respect only to those cops who actually arrest the liars, perverts, rapists, drug dealers, arms dealers, and violence-loving thugs who share their ranks with them.

Most cops, if not directly involved, could be convicted of dereliction of duty if the least scrutiny was applied for failing to uphold the laws within the police community.