Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
In the case of 9/11, we are speaking of an unaware flight crew being assaulted and subdued by men who have trained to do that. Now, if SEAL Team 6, Delta Force and the FBI HRT can train and hone their skills to the point where they can take a jet in 15 seconds, why cannot a group of trained terrorists do the same? Are you assuming they are just dirty, ignorant Arabs, as so many on ATS do? That would be a pretty arrogant assumption on your part.

So, you are saying the "terrorists" had full riot gear/body armor, state of the art weaponry/machine guns, and funded by the US Govt? The richest country on the planet?

I mean, if we're comparing the two.....



Way to go Swampfox!

[edit on 29-11-2009 by R_Mackey]

Originally posted by conar
So let me get this straight.

The socalled "debunkers" dont want to investigate 911 to be absolutely sure we have the right perpetraitors, even though so many signs points to that we dont know who did it.

Why do you risk your loved ones lives, by not investigating 911 thoroughly?

What if you lose one of your loved ones in the next attack?

Umm, nope you didnt get it straight. We had an investigation, a very thorough one, literally hundreds of thousands of manhours were spent by various law enforcement agencies investigating the attacks. We had the right guys. It is only the so-called "truth movement" that cannot accept the facts and continue to cling to their falsehoods...and continue to try to convince others to join them.

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
.No, I am not saying they had full riot gear/body armor. I am pointing out that the hijackers trained to be able to carry out their tasks. And if we have units in our country that can train to the point that they can take down an airliner in 15 seconds, then there is no reason to think that other people cannot train to do the same. I also pointed out that Delta et al, train to take out an alert, hostile enemy in under 15 seconds. The 9/11 hijackers, save for Flight 93, were going against unsuspecting flight crews...making their jobs a wee bit easier.

Those who train to take an airliner in 15 seconds have guns, full body armor to inhibit attack on themselves while continuing their function, and funding of the US Govt for training and equipment.

Most importantly, they also have the support and cooperation of every soul on board!

To equate the two, you must assume both have the same equipment and training for the task at the very least. To suggest otherwise is intellectually dishonest.

[edit on 29-11-2009 by R_Mackey]

I have seen most of those videos before. I have drawn no conclusion on 9/11 other than to say I do not believe the official government line on the matter. The problem you are going to encounter again and again is that most people are not logical thinkers. If they were the planet would not be overrun with unwanted children, senseless violence and other problems that plague us. Most people live unconscious lives, feeling more than thinking.

What you will run into is this deep seated need within many people to have someone care for them. Families are broken, true friends scarce, so many people look to their government to care for them. I am under no illusions concerning our government. It is just as susceptiable to corruption as any other country has been in history. To make that realization is just too diffcult for many people who have their identities wrapped up in the system. God him/herself could tell them the truth concerning their lives and they would contest the divine. It reminds me of dealing with an Anorexic who had dropped down to 80 pounds (at 5'7) and still fought tooth and nail with her doctors proclaiming she was fat. She invested so much time, so much energy into this belief she was fat. She couldn't just let that go. Then you are also running into a common ego trip-some people just don't want to be wrong. We will never get any answers until people let go of their paternalistic needs, ego trips and self-deceptions.

Originally posted by johnny2127
These videos are nothing new. They are just propaganda hit pieces trying to go after Bush and Cheney. In reality, both the Bush and Clinton Administrations dropped the ball when it came to Al Qaeda.

Including Clinton during his administrations

Also, my father and 3 brothers are all pilots for major airlines and they all say that the video of the pilots talking about flying into the WTC is a bunch of crap. Each made the same point that an pilot with multi-engine time could have flown the planes in the WTC

Even Microsoft flight Simulator allowed a person to fly into the WTC towers. It wasn't that difficult to do. (new versions do not allow players to fly into any buildings)

As far back as Bush Sr. we as a nation were beginning to see major transfers of power and were beginning to inform Democrats of secret technology information at internal levels within our intelligence gathering agencies that had been kept from the Democrats for at least 12 years of Republican rule.

What few know is that in Clintons first term his administration showed us what the Democrats where up to as it related to the military personnel in the know and where they were going with it as far back as Clintons first term.

I mention this because at the time of Clintons first term I was on active duty as a senior commissioned officer in the US Army.

One day in 1992 about a year before my T/S clearance was due to expire I received a packet from Dept. of Defense instructing me to review and update certain security related data and personal information. What few knew at the time is that on the back side of the security clearance document was paragraph in very small writing that stated that under a new provision within the NSC act etc. etc. regarding security clearances that by signing and submitting the completed form that I was agreeing to a clause that stated that the federal government could incarcerate me without any legal representaion and for any amount of time deemed necessary, it stated further that they could detain me in secret and or even terminate me at the discretion of the federal government to protect national security issues and classified projects.

I thought about this new rule to renewing clearances for a long while and realized that I was being asked to give my permission to the government to kill me if the government felt it would protect national security classified information. Somehow this small change made me realize we as a nation were heading into dark times. Little did I know just how true that thought would turn out to be.

Needless to say, I made a few calls around Washington and the Pentagon and found quickly that my ability to read the fine print prevented me and others like me from giving permission for anyone to kill me at the convienance of the federal government. It would be a slippery slope that I would not survive but I would never give anyone permission to kill me for the benefit of the nation. That ruling just does not pass logic because it serves to hide the truth.

Much like the Pharoahs of Egypt our government was willing to bury anyone and everyone that knew too much about past projects that might be embarassing to the federal government and or the executive branch.

Anyway to make a long story shorter, I refused to sign the forms on the basis that I would not die for the conviencance of the federal government no matter what excuse they came up with.

My refusal to sign this new security clearance form loudly and clearly signalled my resistence to this draconian rule and to the federal governments desire to have more power to deal with national security personnel.

I have no doubt I was was prevented from being promoted because of this issue which was no surprise to me and after a while I was eventually released from active duity during the big purge of the military right after the Berlin wall came down.

Needless to say Bush jr. passed some executive orders that classifed previously unclassified information soley for the purpose of preventing anyone from discovering historical facts that would prove embarassing to both Democrats and Republicans.

Corruption and greed have ruined this nation but without our ability to discover through historical data what really went on is nothing more than an effective means to silence and bury the truth of many embarassing secret events in our history. We deserve better.