Zeitgeist Movement = most hardcore NWO propaganda ever.

Hi Ignorance... and others,

ever heard of 8D Method, or 5 x why, or Ishikawa? These are Problem-solving Methods widely used in Automotive! I work as Problemsolver and I can tell you this ...search for the root cause of the society problems by applying "5 x why" or "Ishikawa" then try solve them with 8D Method and you'll get the same results Jack Fresco got.

p.s. sorry my English is not the best

Originally posted by dalan.
If Jacque Fresco or anyone in the movement program their computers to force an RFID chip, H1N1 vaccine, or fluoridated water into me...then I will believe that it is NWO propaganda.

by that time it will be too late many good intentioned idealists went on the revolution wagon back in 1917 in Russia. I am sorry to say that many of them were killed by the revolutionary leaders after the "shift".

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
Can anyone answer for me the views of the heads of the ZM in regards to guns and private property? ...

I do not believe you can have a private property in such a society. It contradicts their ideology.

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
Let me ask again: How can it be transistioned in without tyranny?
[edit on 28-11-2009 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

Sacrifices will have to be made. Kill, "cure" or "re-educate" the unwilling; or bunch of rich philanthropists will have to buy all the resources and let people enter new society on their terms. Dejavu check the history of New Lanark - a small 18th-century Scottish village, which was relatively successful experiment and is an example and a symbol to many NWO organizations. It is currently a UNESCO World Heritage Site. So, let me repeat: sacrifices will have to be made and depending on your definition of tyranny there may be no other way. Some tyranny is very sweet though . Same goes for Venus if it ever lifts off the ground – sacrifices will have to be made “for the good of all”.

Originally posted by Jussi
...
There can be 2 differences, in pushing for any agenda.
1. other does it without telling the truth about what the F*ck is going on
2. other does it so, that all aspects of what is going on is shared..

..now which does the NWO fall into, and which does the Zeitgeist movement fall into?
...
Case closed.

"we shall have a world government, whether or not we like it. The question is only whether world government will be achieved by consent or by conquest." - James P Warburg, international financier in testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, 1950.
or let me put it other way, an old joke:
- yesterday I saved a girl from rape;
- oh really? what happened?
- I convinced her to have sex with me.

Originally posted by dalan.
The goal of the movement was to build an "experimental city."
...
I want to work towards the good of everyone, not a select few...

All the luck to you guys. but watch out while you're being played by a small group of false gods behind those computers . You probably know how many times societies tried this or similar ideas and did not survive. there is no need to build a test city. the experiments have been done in different cultures, different ages, and on different scales. All of them failed but those on a very small scale such as family and extended family, even the records for the latter aren’t that great statistically speaking. Basically the idea does not scale. Do you think people are more ready now then before? What changed?

On the second point, again great motive, great desire, just be sure you have all checked and balanced on the subject of collectivism vs. individualism - big subject that.

many talked about growing, evolving.
you do not need anything or anyone in order to grow. Grow up yourself, and then perhaps others will follow. If not why do you care. But to grow technologically with human mind (not brain) lagging behind is suicide. When you achieve your Utopia, please leave a few islands for us - New Amish folk, - you never know.

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss


Hang on, how does a society that basically destroys money which is the basis of modern day slavery achieves the goals of the NWO? The NWO is about power right? And we all know that they get it through the use of money, we know that the wars fought at the moment is for profit. So how does a society without money further their goals? Please explain.....

reply to post by dalan.



I hardly think the monetary system was Stalin's biggest problem dalan.

Come on now. And if you just replaced the word "money" for the words "resource credits", it's the same dang system.

Originally posted by JosephMatthew
....
You hear a phrase like "global community" (aka humanity) and immediately think it to be a bad thing, using nothing more than info-skimming, ignorance and "gut feeling". ...
....
Seems like many of you are in a dark place; cannot see past the nightmare of today....

That "gut feeling" is called an instinct and long memory span. it's like this, if you have been coned before using a specific con, next time someone runs this con on you, you'll be very suspicious. That’s what most if not all of the opponents here are, like the idea in general but very suspicious and for good reasons. And it is not because of nightmare of today, but the nightmare of yesterday, it’s called experience.

Originally posted by TrueTruth

whats the problem in replacing humans with robots if we didnt need to work ... we could use our time to do creative things, whatever

aside from the fact it's impossible?

machines can't do my job, or my wife's job (me - acupuncture. her - behavioral therapist for autistic children)

the problem of differential reward for things like, advanced degrees, and actually doing something so others can do nothing, will not go away.

personally, if you decided to just be a sponge, i'd say you have no right to access any service by any person who actually does something useful

Lets get something straight. Machines are not supposed to take over jobs that a human can do better. What is the point in that? The automation JF speaks about is in production, blue collar and white collar. Computers can automate entire factories thus making slave labor obsolete. Machines have been doing most of our accounting and financial work since the calculator was invented. Its not just machines that JF includes in in technological renassaince. Tables, pencils, clothing, and just about anything tangible that doesn't spring from God's Earth can be considered a technological advance. In this way, our current society is already based on technology, jobs included.

To me, Zeitgeist wants to free people from dangerous or dangerously monotonous jobs in order to do the wonderful jobs you and your wife do. No one wants to replace humans when humans can do a better job. The problem JF is trying to solve is treating humans like machines in factory, corporate and service repair jobs. If a machine can do it better, why not let the machine do it.

We need to use some common sense when it comes to Zeitgeist. Theres no reason to replace your job or your wifes job. Theres no point in replacing any job that humans can do better. However, if production was automated abundance would be increased and an economy that bases price on scarcity would be eliminated.

reply to post by doctornamtab


Ok, then what jobs are left over when all manufacturing (including building construction) and numerical related work is lost?

It also seems like a lot of people are caught up on the transition. They believe that the only way to implement an alternative society is to force people to participate. JF does not condone this. In fact, I believe he wants to create a society based on choice, not force.

The trouble is, in our current society, no one wants to work. This is because the jobs we have suck. Theyre humiliating and dehumanizing. They serve a small group of parasitic people. Zeitgeist wants to create a society where one can choose their contribution to society. Finance, accounting, human resources: these jobs serve the economy, not people. In JF society, these jobs would be eliminated since they no longer serve people.

If we think of jobs as contributions to society then only a fraction of jobs truly need to be done. When we automate the production of many of these jobs we free even more people to contribute to society, instead of just working.

The goal of JF is to have a society with a purpose: education and knowledge. Many people spend 40 hours a week serving only their masters and not each other. This is driving society to the edge. This is the transition. Us discussing a new society is the transition. WE implement it, not some powerful douchebag in government. People need to realize we don't need to be told what to do all the time. We are not children, we do not need leaders to act like our parents. Eventually all children outgrow their parents and its time for humanity, as a whole, to do the same.

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss


Why do we need jobs in the first place? To access the necessities of life that are denied to us by resource hoarders: food, water and shelter. Jobs also produce the goods that enrich our lives. If these jobs can be automated we can focus our labor energy on each other, not mere survival.

There will be no jobs, only contributions. No one will force you to do anything. If you want to waste your life go ahead and waste it without contributing to society. Its your life to waste, not ours to save.

However, I believe most people want to help. People want to truly participate in social construction. Jobs only exist to pervert this desire into serving the masters. When forced labor (based on money, hierarchy and resource hoarding), disappears so will the apathy, anger and violence which stem from intelligent people realizing its all a swindle.

Many jobs disappear when we rescale our priorities. Many unnecessary jobs are created simply by the existence of money. Without money these jobs would disappear and free all these smart, hard working people to apply their skills to truly helping humanity, the planet and themselves.

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
...Abundance, we need insane amounts of ECONOMICALLY SMART power. So far the renewables (we know about) aren't good enough. ...

thought you may find this interesting,- the efficiency of the current solar power technology on the market would satisfy ALL the world's current energy needs, if you cover an area of size of France with it (somewhere in the desert for example). This is not so Utopian IMHO that's solar power alone. Heard it in a German documentary (in English on utube). they're a bit crazy about it at the moment.

Originally posted by doctornamtab
It also seems like a lot of people are caught up on the transition. They believe that the only way to implement an alternative society is to force people to participate. JF does not condone this.

Of course he wouldn't, like the rest of the soothe-saying found throughout their propaganda. But regardless it has to be implemented, er transitioned somehow, and I keep begging for an explaination to how this would go about.

In fact, I believe he wants to create a society based on choice, not force.

By its very nature, a centralized command & control system that dictates the usage and distribution of resources is the further possible thing from the idea of 'choice'.

If we think of jobs as contributions to society then only a fraction of jobs truly need to be done. When we automate the production of many of these jobs we free even more people to contribute to society, instead of just working.

Economics 101: I build or grow something. It has value to someone else, so we trade for what he has that I value. Everyone values silver, my trader has silver but nothing else to trade that I want. So he pays me silver for my merchandise. Lots of people want what I invented, so I hire people to help build and distribute them. They're good at building and delivering them, but not at inventing them. They get paid for the value of the work, and then go use their earnings how they see fit. I have lots of employees, and lots of people need work (things they can do of value to others), so I get an HR department to handle hiring new people and to make sure my employees are well taken care of. And with all of the trading I'm doing I need accountants to make sure balances and employees are paid, and that things are done most efficiently and profitably.

But now there are machines that not only can do things that humans cant (try building a surface mount PCB with your hands I dare you), but now more and more I can buy machines that do things I could pay people to do. So to cut out the HR department I replace all my employees with machines, and now they'll have to figure out some other way to be of value to others.

Hmm. It looks like that's the way its going in many areas anyways, sure, and now ZM is promoting this very outcome laid over the purest form of communism ever proposed.

The goal of JF is to have a society with a purpose: education and knowledge. Many people spend 40 hours a week serving only their masters and not each other.

It's all about perspective. If you want to be lazy and dont want to spend time learning about things and developing skill then these ar ethe sorts of jobs you're likely to get. But if you're driven and constantly strive for greater skills and knowledge you can make pretty good for yourself.

Most people WANT to be LAZY. Most want to be told what to do. Its their CHOICE. And if you choose to be lazy you'll likely only get what that is worth to the society.

You WILL NOT get all 7 billion people to all be the same way, as driven, etc. That is a FACT. So your dreams of collectivism are on par with an aesop fable.

This is the transition. Us discussing a new society is the transition. WE implement it, not some powerful douchebag in government.

No, that is incorrect.
Government MUST do it. What you people 'discuss' (propose) is policy. The policy has to be implemented. The process of implementation is the transition.


[edit on 1-12-2009 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

Nobody seems to want to actually explain the implementation / transition. So now I will for you.

Your society, or rather the GLOBAL society, would have to get CONTROL over all governments, GLOBALLY.

Next you have to take CONTROL over all industries, factories, warehouses, shipping depots, ships, trains, planes, trucks, natural resources, mines, research centers, laboratories (including universities), agriculture, power plants, municipal utilities, communications, and so on.

Now you to attempt to configure your command & control system to be able to understand all of the above as well as every possible extent of available natural resources (good luck with that), and reliable future projections of every possible resource (good luck with that) and every way they could ever be used now and in the future (absolutely impossible). Now your beyond human intelligence global computer network may begin rationing it all out.

Since no more than half the worlds population will ever agree with this system, nor abide by it, you will now need to globally deploy the standing robot army into all facets of the inhabited world. After all, this is a job and robots are supposed to take our jobs. At this point the robot collective is in total control.

Your utopia is now the darkest dystopia the world has ever seen, and there's no turning back. Nowhere to run and nowhere to hide.

At this point your only option is to take the nanobot neural implants and jack into the global borg collective as your only hope to not be terminated.

Any questions?

EDIT: I didn't properly address the actual transition parameters:
For the VP system to even work it pretty much has to be done globally, and rapidly. The core of the system is total control, so a half hearted implementation would be like trying to implement todays 'capitalism' without the allowance of profits. Likewise, unavailabilty the technologies needed for total automation of all human jobs would be a hinderance on the systems functionaility, meaning humans will be attempting to make the decisions while waiting for the AGI computer network, and humans will be doing the same old jobs until robots of necessary sophistication are in existence. So, after you take over and create the global government framework, a system virtually identical to the old Soviet system would have to operate things until the promised technology is achieved.

Therefore, the transition would be long and drawn out while waiting for the robots, and as soviet economics has proven, technological progress would be slower meaning it might take eons to reach the automation dytopia outlined above. For instance, when the Soviet Union collapsed around 1990, cars were still being manufactured using handheld rivot guns. No 2 cars were identical to anywhere near the standards of the corporation cars we all know so well.

No matter how you slice it its the purest form of communism possible and insansely unfeasible.

[edit on 1-12-2009 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss


I already said that for the transition the plan was to build an "experimental city." With enough people who have the technical skills necessary to solve problems the city would slowly evolve...or grow and adapt.

You do not have to force anyone to do anything. If you do not want to go to the city then don't.

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Now your beyond human intelligence global computer network may begin rationing it all out. [edit on 1-12-2009 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

The computer is a future idea that you are not grasping.

Computers would not be rationing anything out to anyone. You make it sound very militaristic which it is not. The computers would simply be assessing current resources.

It would be up to us to figure out the most technically proficient means to say, build everyone a home out of the best material possible, without hurting the environment and without leaving anyone out.

Its called problem solving.

reply to post by dalan.


Please describe to us how this system would work on a microlevel? Where are you going to get the robots / machine automation? Where are you going to get the resources? Imagine the limitations on resource availability within the confinements of 'city' limits.

"No, dalan, you can only have 2 wheelbarrows of compost today." "dalan, we need you to huury up and finish weaving those baskets for the community."

I argue it could only 'work' on a macro level, perhaps only on a total global level. And PJ has you all waiting for the current system to collapse so you can rush in via the vacuum.

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
Originally posted by doctornamtab

In fact, I believe he wants to create a society based on choice, not force.

By its very nature, a centralized command & control system that dictates the usage and distribution of resources is the further possible thing from the idea of 'choice'.[edit on 1-12-2009 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

Oh really, and how much "choice" do you have right now as to how we use our resources? I am sure the rich companies would love to hear your input.

Originally posted by dalan.
The computer is a future idea that you are not grasping.

But that is the core of the system. We already know all too well that humans arent smart enough for the global management scheme outlined by VP. The Soviets tried it. And the global warming mess proves that we cant even predict weaher or climate for squat. Managing GLOBAL resources would be no different.

Computers would not be rationing anything out to anyone. You make it sound very militaristic which it is not. The computers would simply be assessing current resources.

Then who does the rationing? Do you realize the complexity of understanding let alone deciding the needs of a million people, let alone billions?

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
reply to post by dalan.

 

Please describe to us how this system would work on a micro-level? Where are you going to get the robots / machine automation? Where are you going to get the resources? Imagine the limitations on resource availability within the confinements of 'city' limits.

Why would we build an experimental city within the confines of existing cities? Build the new city somewhere far outside of any current city. There is such a thing as robots building robots.

Build one robot and eventually who have a whole bunch.

Today's current cities are entire deposits of untapped resources...mine them.

"No, dalan, you can only have 2 wheelbarrows of compost today." "dalan, we need you to hurry up and finish weaving those baskets for the community."

1st: Why would I be using compost for anything? If I were growing any manner of a garden, hydroponics are far superior.

2nd: Why would I be weaving baskets? Unless I enjoyed weaving baskets, in which case, big deal.

I argue it could only 'work' on a macro level, perhaps only on a total global level. And PJ has you all waiting for the current system to collapse so you can rush in via the vacuum.

I am not waiting for anything.

I am already in school for computer programming.

Instead of complaining about, "Well what about this problem or this problem?" Get off the computer and maybe go get a degree in some technical field so that perhaps you can actually SOLVE a problem.

Or at least help solve a problem.

It is easy to ask open-ended questions.

If the Zeitgeist Movement/Venus Project were NWO propaganda they would already be shoving it down our throats and telling us that its "good" for us. I have yet to see the MSM pick up any story related to it.

If Fox News ever runs a story on it singing it praises then maybe we should be afraid.

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
Originally posted by dalan.

The computer is a future idea that you are not grasping.

But that is the core of the system. We already know all too well that humans aren't smart enough for the global management scheme outlined by VP. The Soviets tried it. And the global warming mess proves that we cant even predict weather or climate for squat. Managing GLOBAL resources would be no different.

The idea of keeping track of Earth's resources on a global scale is just an idea. At the beginning it would be localized, maybe someday in the future when human beings can work together something like that may work.

But you could not force whole Nations into a global community prematurely. That would be the antithesis to true growth.

It is a system that allows for growth and evolution, instead of us being held back.

Computers would not be rationing anything out to anyone. You make it sound very militaristic which it is not. The computers would simply be assessing current resources.

Then who does the rationing? Do you realize the complexity of understanding let alone deciding the needs of a million people, let alone billions?

Nothing would be rationed.

Its a scenario, the way we build homes today is not technically proficient. Figure out a way to mass produce homes that are resource effective and give people the most amount of living space that they could want/need.

Its problem solving. We do not live in a culture today with people equipped to solve these kinds of problems. The only problems that we are equipped to solve is "how much money can we make?"

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss


See, why would I have to weave any baskets?



High Speed Robot Hand



[edit on 12/1/2009 by dalan.]