reply to post by plumranch
It appears the US is using the same tactic in Afghanistan that worked in Iraq. !) Troup surge 2) Turn the insurgents against al-qaeda.
It didn’t work in Iraq as sectarian violence is at higher levels than at any previous point and only continuing to worsen.
What has changed in Iraq that has reduced American body count which to a certain understandable degree is the only things most Americans use as a
gauge of success or failure is that American troops are now more or less confined to their bases most of the time except the predawn hours between
midnight and when the sun comes up.
Which one has to see the humor of as we basically have a vampire’s role roaming the streets in the wee hours of the night looking for blood?
Hundreds of Iraqis continue to die each week in sectarian violence in the vacuum left by a weak, fractured and unpopular government having replaced a
strong authoritarian regime that was also unpopular but kept disparate factions from warring amongst them selves by providing a stronger common enemy
that more greatly threatened the sectarian factions.
Saddam Hussein was a ruthless murderous tyrant and despot that the world could well do without but he was also someone who developed a formula of
ruling over a number of disparate groups who were geographically bound together when the British redrew the Middle Eastern maps.
The United States on the other hand had a plan for eliminating him and his dictatorship but no plan for the peaceful governance of Iraq in the
Those Iraqis who so benefit and profit in forming a government to our liking that we would prop up militarily for them likewise had no sound plan for
running Iraq beyond their own individual sectarian agendas that would work for them and their sect but not well for all of Iraq.
Iraq today is a place as a result of this that is overrun with violence and chaos and injustice as a weak unpopular central government often with its
own limited sectarian agenda has not and likely will not be able to restore order to Iraq.
Iraq is not safer or more prosperous for Iraqi citizens today than it was before the invasion except for the fact that there are no longer punitive
sanctions that limit the economic growth and there are economic opportunities many of which are provided at the expense of the American taxpayer to
rebuild and revitalize the infrastructure we destroyed through two wars and a decade of debilitating sanctions.
In many regards Iraq is less safe for the average Iraqi than before the invasion. Before the invasion they simply had to worry about offending Saddam
or the Baath Party. Today they have to worry about a whole host of viral threats from the new Government, to the U.S. Soldiers, to the various sects
to Al Qaeda that also looks to profit off of the vacuum.
As despicable as Saddam Hussein was the saying if you build it they shall come rings somewhat true. The British for political purposes of their own
lumped a lot of people together in a nation that should likely have nations of their own and not be trying to share one with so many other ethnic and
religious groups that are diametrically opposed to one another. Saddam’s brutal regime was a byproduct of that as likely being the only kind of
system that would keep such divided people from tearing each other’s throats out.
All the surge did was to secure temporarily a larger portion of a generally unsecured and insecure nation long enough to allow it’s own government
to put enough troops of its own on the streets to for U.S. Troops to begin a retreat in a semi-secure environment.
The American body count has gone down with the frequency of American patrols not as a result of the surge working and not as a result of Iraq being
safer and more secure.
Americans including our own government seem to have been totally ignorant of the political makeup and reality on the ground before the invasion and
the American public is just as ignorant of it today as American Body Count not Iraqi Body Count is used as the American Standard for gauging success.
Americans are just as ignorant of the political makeup and reality on the ground in Afghanistan and no amount of foreign troops no matter how well
equipped or trained or how wide their rules of engagement are is going to lead to a general acceptance of Afghanis of the Karzai Government that is
rife with corruption, deeply involved in the narcotics trade and runs a small and shrinking portion of the nation through a similar form of nepotism
and sectarian favoritism as the puppet regime in Iraq does.
The truth is that who loves these new governments are Americans and Europeans who imagine that the people who live there will be better off for them
and love them as well in time.
Nothing could be further from the truth as within a relatively short period of us pulling out of Iraq the government will fall and the nation degrade
into full blown civil war and the same holds true in Afghanistan.
The Taliban was in charge at the time of our invasion but was battling two other powerful entities for control and would have likely fallen in due
course had we left well enough alone.
The only thing our persecution of the Taliban has done is make it more appealing to Afghanis.
Western values might be great for Westerners and some Easterners might even find greater value in them than there own but ramming them down people’s
throats with the barrel of a gun is not exactly the way to convince people who don’t see value in them to begin with to start.
The War in Afghanistan the so called War on Terror is all about exploiting a tiny, impoverished nation and people for their natural resources and to
enrich the military industrial complex. The only thing another surge of troops is going to do is just make it easier for that exploitation to continue
and make the military industrial complex richer.
Simply put no people who wish not to be conquered by foreign interlopers ever have been. They will fight on forever for their own way of life and
beliefs no matter how good or bad that way of life and beliefs are for one simple reason and that is that is what they believe. Had the believed
differently they would have turned their nation into a gigantic strip mall already with 7-Elevens and McDonalds from one end to the other.
These foolish wars are bankrupting America to the point we might never economically recover and stripping us of our own rights and morality in a way
that does not serve America well. If these wars aren’t serving Iraqis or Afghanis or Americans well why the heck are we continuing to fight them and
to what end?
Vanity, ego and pride are far deadlier things when not checked than any terrorist’s weapon.
[edit on 29/11/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]