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[It] would mean that their ancestors came not from the Jordan, but from the Volga, not from Canaan but from the Caucasus, once believed to be the cradle of the Aryan race; and that genetically they are more closely connected to the Hun, Uigur and Magyar tribes than to the seed of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob. Should this turn out to be the case, then the term 'anti-Semitism' would be void of meaning, based on a misapprehension shared by both the killers and their victims. The story of the Khazar Empire, as it slowly emerges from the past, begins to look like the most cruel hoax which history has ever perpetrated.
What are the facts about the Jews? (I call them Jews to you, because they are known as Jews. I don't call them Jews myself. I refer to them as so-called Jews, because I know what they are.) ... There wasn't one of them [the Khazars] who had an ancestor who ever put a toe in the Holy Land. Not only in Old Testament history, but back to the beginning of time. Not one of them! And yet they come to the Christians and ask us to support their armed insurrections in Palestine by saying, 'You want to help repatriate God's Chosen People to their Promised Land, their ancestral home, don't you? It's your Christian duty. We gave you one of our boys as your Lord and Saviour ... It is as ridiculous to call them 'people of the Holy Land,' as it would be to call the 54 million Chinese Moslems 'Arabs' ..."
Originally posted by ForAiur
What happened in this period is that the people formerly known for centuries as the Khazars became known simply as 'Jews' and their true origin was lost. In its place their leaders sold to them - and the rest of the world - a false history. This was the belief that they were the Biblical Jews and the fallacy continues to this day with devastating consequences for peace in the Middle East.
.... I've noticed accusations that today's Jews (American, European, and Israeli) are not 'real Jews' but are instead descendants of Khazarian Jewish converts. This claim is typically offered as a reason why Jews currently inhabiting the state of Israel have no legitimate ancestral claim to the land.
My intent with this thread is to debunk such an accusation.
A Very Brief History
After suffering persecution in Persia, Byzantium, and various Islamic nations, many Jews fled to Khazaria (1, 2) for safety. The Khazars and Jews enjoyed a diplomatic relationship and eventually Khazarian nobility converted to Judaism around the 8th-9th century A.D. Some historians believe their subjects later converted to Judaism as well, although the extent of conversion is debated and evidence exists to verify a range of figures. Kharzars held a diverse range of religions including Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Zoroastrianism, and various pagan beliefs. Although evidence certainly points to some Khazars holding Jewish beliefs, they were not all converts to Judaism.
The Conspiracy Begins
Fast forward to the 19th century. French Philosopher Ernest Renan appears to be responsible for starting the conspiracy theory in his book Judaism as a Race and as Religion. He puts forth the claim Ashkenazic Jews are descended from Khazarian converts and the line of Japheth and not 'pure blood' Semitic Jews descended from Shem and Abraham. Slowly but surely the theory began to spread in popularity and was ultimately popularized in the 20th century by the well known racial theorist Lothrop Stoddard.
Several more authors picked up and propagated the myth throughout the 20th century to the point the accusation became wide spread and well known. The theory is now very popular with various anti-semitic and anti-Zionist organizations and is mostly used to negate Israel's purpose of existence.
Debunking the Accusation Using DNA Evidence
The evidence is by far on the side of those seeking to refute the allegation that Ashkenazic are not 'real' Jews. Science and DNA evidence confirms common, semitic ancestry:
Haplotypes constructed from Y-chromosome markers were used to trace the paternal origins of the Jewish Diaspora. A set of 18 biallelic polymorphisms was genotyped in 1,371 males from 29 populations, including 7 Jewish (Ashkenazi, Roman, North African, Kurdish, Near Eastern, Yemenite, and Ethiopian) and 16 non-Jewish groups from similar geographic locations. The Jewish populations were characterized by a diverse set of 13 haplotypes that were also present in non-Jewish populations from Africa, Asia, and Europe. A series of analyses was performed to address whether modern Jewish Y-chromosome diversity derives mainly from a common Middle Eastern source population or from admixture with neighboring non-Jewish populations during and after the Diaspora.
Despite their long-term residence in different countries and isolation from one another, most Jewish populations were not significantly different from one another at the genetic level. Admixture estimates suggested low levels of European Y-chromosome gene flow into Ashkenazi and Roman Jewish communities. A multidimensional scaling plot placed six of the seven Jewish populations in a relatively tight cluster that was interspersed with Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations, including Palestinians and Syrians. Pairwise differentiation tests further indicated that these Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations were not statistically different. The results support the hypothesis that the paternal gene pools of Jewish communities from Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East descended from a common Middle Eastern ancestral population, and suggest that most Jewish communities have remained relatively isolated from neighboring non-Jewish communities during and after the Diaspora.
Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes
With a new technique based on the male or Y chromosome, biologists have traced the diaspora of Jewish populations from the dispersals that began in 586 B.C. to the modern communities of Europe and the Middle East.
The analysis provides genetic witness that these communities have, to a remarkable extent, retained their biological identity separate from their host populations, evidence of relatively little intermarriage or conversion into Judaism over the centuries.
Another finding, paradoxical but unsurprising, is that by the yardstick of the Y chromosome, the world's Jewish communities closely resemble not only each other but also Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese, suggesting that all are descended from a common ancestral population that inhabited the Middle East some four thousand years ago.
Despite the Ashkenazi Jews' long residence in Europe, their Y signature has remained distinct from that of non-Jewish Europeans.
Y Chromosome Bears Witness to Story of the Jewish Diaspora
Those who continue to push forth the theory that Ashkenazi Jews are not 'real Jews' also display a gross ignorance of the Jewish religion concerning the treatment and acceptance of converts. This is either ignored or unknown by those who make the accusation. Although we can see above DNA evidence vindicates modern Jews, even if by some chance they were not ancestrally related, the fact remains in Judaism a convert is treated with the utmost respect and, according to Jewish Law, no differentiation is made between a 'biological,' if you will, Jew and a Jewish convert.
Even some famous Biblical characters, one example being Ruth, an ancestor of King David, were converts to the faith and not born into it as a descendant of Abraham. A Jew is a Jew either through heritage or conversion so this accusation is negated.
As I mention above, the statistics regarding the Khazarian conversion is a hotly debated topic. For the sake of intellectual honesty, I will say that in some cases there is historical support to confirm a a large amount of converts. However, this still poses no problem to Israel's right to exist or its current citizens of being 'Real Jews.' There were conversions as well as a mixing of the cultures but the scientific evidence above proves the bloodline retained its integrity. History, biology, and archeology also prove not all Khazarians became Ashkenazi Jews and not all Ashkenazi Jews were Khazarian. Although many did convert to Judaism, many Kharzarians still held a diverse range of religious beliefs.
In light of all evidence, most scholars and historians have rejected or abandoned the conspiracy theory altogether. The remaining proponents of the theory generally consist of various groups and organizations seeking to undermine Israel's sovereignty, its citizens right to the land, and to propagate anti-semitic information.
You'll often find this information still being presented without any actual facts to back it up on anti-semitic websites like Stormfront, Jew Watch, etc.
The fact remains, this claim simply is not factual and all evidence points to this conspiracy theory being false.
even if by some chance they were not ancestrally related, the fact remains in Judaism a convert is treated with the utmost respect and, according to Jewish Law, no differentiation is made between a 'biological,' if you will, Jew and a Jewish convert.
Originally posted by Kokatsi
As I married into a Jewish family, it has some significance to me and some relatives.
I would think originally the Thirteenth Tribe by Arthur Koestler was not anti-Jewish propaganda though. Koestler - I am sure you know that he was a Hungarian Jew - thought for a long time that the Khazar theory was true and drew his conclusions in a book.
I would not say he was anti-Jewish, although he did not support a resurgence of Judaism after the holocaust.
Ashkenazim here are thought of as somewhat physically different than Sephardim. They can be red-haired with a longer nose. My wife's relatives have Spanish Judaic ancestry so they have long neck and dark curly hair.
It would be interesting if it turned out that the other side in Eastern Europe is also related to Hebrews.
I do not read antisemitic pages so I am sadly uninformed as to how they use versions and theories of Jewish history. (I generally do not read anti-Islamic articles either - although I do not want to compare these two cultures.)
Koestler himself was sympathetic to Zionism on secular considerations, and did not see alleged Khazar ancestry as diminishing the claim of Jews to Israel, which he felt was based on the United Nations mandate, and not on Biblical covenants or genetic inheritance. In his view, "The problem of the Khazar infusion a thousand years ago ... is irrelevant to modern Israel". In addition, he was apparently "either unaware of or oblivious to the use anti-Semites had made to the Khazar theory since its introduction at the turn of the century."
Nevertheless, in the Arab world the Khazar theory has been adopted by anti-Zionists and anti-Semites; such proponents argue that if Ashkenazi Jews are primarily Khazar and not Semitic in origin, they would have no historical claim to Israel, nor would they be the subject of God's Biblical promise of Canaan to the Israelites, thus undermining the theological basis of both Jewish religious Zionists and Christian Zionists.
In the West, Koestler's thesis has also been embraced by some adherents of British Israelism and its offshoots such as the Christian Identity movement.
Koestler's historiography was attacked as highly questionable by many historians. His discussion of theories about Ashkenazi descent is largely unsupported; to the extent that Koestler referred to place-names and documentary evidence his analysis has been described as a mixture of flawed etymologies and misinterpreted primary sources. Commentators have also noted that Koestler mischaracterized the sources he cited, particularly D.M. Dunlop's History of the Jewish Khazars (1954).
For example, Bernard Lewis wrote in 1986: "This theory… is supported by no evidence whatsoever. It has long since been abandoned by all serious scholars in the field, including those in Arab countries, where the Khazar theory is little used except in occasional political polemics".
Originally posted by ForAiur
Judaism discourages conversion. If a Gentile asks a rabbi to convert, the rabbi will warn him not to.
Instead, the rabbi will teach him the Seven Laws of Noah (Noachide Laws - google it). According to Judaism, a Gentile only has to follow these seven laws to be considered "righteous," whereas a Jew must follow the 613 laws of the Torah.
In practice, Judaism makes a distinction between "Jews" and "Goyim." Even if you follow the Seven Laws of Noah, you're still a goyim.
The only way to become Jewish is by being born to a Jewish mother. That is Talmudic (Jewish) Law.
Theoretically, it is possible to convert, but the rabbis make it so difficult to convert that it's practically impossible. No, if you're not born a Jew, you'll always be a goyim.
If you don't believe me go ask a rabbi if you can convert to Judaism.
Originally posted by amyfriend
hI my friends/comrads!!!!!
Well,,,why do all the so called "good muslims" turn their head the other way on the sicks radicals????