Fuming Mad Christian

reply to post by gluetrap


That was rather offensive, but its what he said next that is truly appalling...

Obama. He not only believes in Jesus, he trusts the words Jesus used and believes what He said, so totally unlike many other people falsely claiming to be "Christian" out there.

Whats this world coming to!!

Originally posted by rusethorcain
reply to post by oliveoil

 

I don't want to sound anti-Semitic but if you are against the concept of Jesus Christ who was almost the entire point of Christianity you are by definition anti-Christ.
Now this is perfectly fine. You may be pro or anti anything on this earth. It is your personal right. As long as you hurt no one (thus proving you are incapable of functioning in a civil society) you should be left to live in peace regardless of your religious inclinations.
However if you call yourself Christian you have an obligation to witness and not to stand by quietly and allow your fellow man to fall short of the glory of God. You have a duty to speak the words of the Lord Jesus Christ, for however long it takes to convince your fellow man that they are going down a path which only leads to destruction and death.
If Bethlehem, Jerusalem and other Christian Holy-lands were defended by Christianity and not abandoned like orphans on a battleground in the cross hairs of two other religious groups who are not it's parents and care less about it, the Mideast would not be in such maddening turmoil.
It is only the Christian values and Jesus Christ's very pointed and specific teachings dealing with LOVE YOUR ENEMY, TURN THE OTHER CHEEK, and LOVE THE SINNER that will remedy the violent hostility and attacks of vengeance happening in the region now and throughout all recent history. It is an unmistakable Christian obligation to directly confront the anti-Christ. You need a bloody cross on the door to tell you who these people are? If Christians were more effective at teaching, sharing, mending and helping with their own non-violent and self sacrificing values (if you are truly a follower of Jesus teachings and NOT an OT fringe loony-toon you are non violent) to non-Christians, first the Jewish faith and then the Islamic, people would have to calm down tensions in the region of the Mideast.
I do not say CHANGE anyone's religion but I advocate sharing the tenants and agreeing on what you can and requesting the more peaceful Christian all forgiving way be tried.
If you are really a Christian...aside from loving God with all your heart..Get those who are anti-Christ TO Christ instead of using your influence following fags and young pregnant girls around to see what they are up to. You are only making people write off religion completely as just another bad idea.
Fight the anti-Christ. What the heck else are you here for?
And to save you the effort...it ain't Obama. He not only believes in Jesus, he trusts the words Jesus used and believes what He said, so totally unlike many other people falsely claiming to be "Christian" out there.



[edit on 3-12-2009 by rusethorcain]

A fabulous example of the modern American Christian.

I begin to sympathise with Ghandi more and more with every passing day.

OH and @ the OP..this isn't the religion board on ATS it is the CONSPIRACIES in religions board.
The biggest one being how the Abrahamaic Trinity have conspired to carve up the planet and its wealth into their own little fiefdoms.

reply to post by EdCase512

Thank you. I try to be a good example.
But Ghandi is dead bro. Sympathy is wasted on him.
I like to remind people, there are no "fundamentalist Buddhist's." It is all the other religions that need a tune-up and a reminder of what they are supposed to be about. You are so esoteric. Fascinating.



[edit on 4-12-2009 by rusethorcain]

reply to post by oliveoil


What's this world coming to? The end.

reply to post by rusethorcain


you said:

And to save you the effort...it ain't Obama. He not only believes in Jesus, he trusts the words Jesus used and believes what He said, so totally unlike many other people falsely claiming to be "Christian" out there.

I'm sorry. As much as I do not agree with what the Bush administration did, I have to stand up for them in regards to stem cell research. Obama on the other hand, has given the green light for more lines of embryonic stem cells to be researched. I'm sorry...but that's not a man that believes in Jesus and trust the living word.

The human embryo is 100% without a doubt...human. It has all 46 chromosomes and a unique, functioning genetic code. No amount of benefit to the human race can justify the premeditative harvesting of "extra human parts". These are embryos, not a junkyard. Besides, there are other ways to go about it. There are adult stem cells. There are embryonic stem cells in the umbilical cord which can be preserved. There are embryonic stem cells found in the roots of baby teeth that can be preserved. There's even speculation that adult stem cells can be programmed to behave like embryonic stem cells....

The bible is very clear that human existence starts with conception. Psalm 139:13-16; Jer. 1:4-5; Gen. 29:31–35, 30:17–24; Ruth 4:13; 1 Sam. 1:19–20; Judg. 13:7–8; Luke 1:41–44 and many many others...

Don't kill my brothers and sisters please. I love them. I would think a man after Jesus' own heart and a man of his own words would be in the same boat. It appears either A) Obama is not a man after Jesus' own heart or B) he doesn't fully understand the implications of Philipians 2:3

"LET NOTHING BE DONE THROUGH STRIFE OR VAINGLORY: BUT IN LOWLINESS OF MIND LET EACH ESTEEM OTHER BETTER THAN THEMSELVES"

That is, no one that is already present is worth the life of someone that is not yet present.

reply to post by Agree2Disagree


Stop making things up that are not in our religion. We are supposed to love, protect and care for each other. He did not say "stem cells" He did not even say to protect the unborn. Life? God could have been talking about trees and animals also. Why are you so careless with all this "life?"
Why don't you even trust God to deal with His own sinners? If it is a mortal sin we spend an eternity in hell anyway so what do you think you are going to add to this? You are going to inflict your own version of justice on those who abort a fetus, or those who destroy a stem cell? Do you think God wants you to let hundreds, even thousands of people die when you have the means to save them in the form of stem cells?
Don't let your rigid adherence to lesser laws blind you from the first and the only commandment. Love your brother as yourself. And if stem cells could save your life...I want them for you and you should be glad they are being used.

reply to post by rusethorcain


KILLING PEOPLE TO SAVE PEOPLE IS NOT RIGHTEOUS.

We are to love everyone. It clearly states IN THE BIBLE...that humans begin in the womb...as embryos....thank you...I rest my case....

edit to add: Did you not read those verses I supplied? Go and look...tell me if stem cell research from a destroyed embryo is not MURDER...it's premeditated isn't it? It's destruction of life isn't it? okay then...

Also, I wasn't inflicting my own form of justice. Far from it in fact. I was simply saying that if you think Obama is a man after Jesus' own heart then you are sadly mistaken. It's ironic that Jesus says "See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you, that their angels in heaven continually behold the face of My Father who is in heaven" and the most helpless and "little" humans that I could think of...would be those in the womb. Yet, you apparently don't think they deserve to be treated accordingly....

[edit on 4-12-2009 by Agree2Disagree]

reply to post by rusethorcain

He did not even say to protect the unborn. Life?

What Bible are you reading?

Exodus 21:22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

The Bible also says that he knows you before you are conceived.

Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee;

Psalms 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.




[edit on 4-12-2009 by oliveoil]

reply to post by oliveoil


The Bible also tells us how to properly care for our slaves. The word of God has lost a great deal in the translation and throughout the test of time.
Did you know the Bible you are reading is actually stories lifted and reworked from bits of Sumerian text. It seems to have been reworded to convey different messages, the names of the prominent characters were changed, many of the females omitted entirely. I imagine parts of it are fairly accurate but much of it has been lost, huge sections are removed and the basic message and meaning of the Book has been corrupted?

www.crivoice.org...

books.google.com... ZS5HZDMqttgeE3YXmAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CBYQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=enuma%20elish&f=false

I urge all thinking people to take the whole thing with a grain of salt...unless you fear turning into a pillar of salt.

reply to post by Agree2Disagree


We are not going to agree. I wouldn't quote the Bible as if it is the last word of law since the Bible was taken from an earlier writing and changed considerably..(see post above) If it ever was the word of God it has been corrupted and changed so you must read between the lines and get the message without dwelling painfully on sticking points that probably were NOT in the first edition anyway. You have been misled and with that you carry your ideas so far they actually harm, damage and destroy other human beings...not the beginnings of a human being but other human beings. Some women/girls/children forced to leech nutrients out of their body and even risk their lives so they can carry their rapists child to term and give it space to grow. Do you imagine giving birth does not ravage a woman's body and threaten her health? You have obviously never given birth.
I appreciate you and what you believe as long as you do not attempt to manipulate control or force another human being into being an incubator for emerging life when that life is not wanted. I believe what is in the woman's body belongs to the woman.
Now I want you to think about this seriously...if men got pregnant and the roles were reversed do you think anyone is going to tell a man he has to carry this conception to term?
If men could get pregnant abortion clinics would be open 24/7 and they would have bars in them.

reply to post by gemineye


You were in a christian cult. That's a cult that believes in Jesus but makes a fatal error with regards to their own legalistic interpretations. Many of these also have a cult of personality around charismatic leaders. A classic modern example is the International Church of Christ, formerly known as the Boston church of Christ.

Leaving your husband, however, is throwing the baby out with the bath water, unless he was cheating on you. Jesus made it very clear that he hates divorce. Divorce is one the great ills that is destroying this country.

Seem like no one can get along with anybody any more.

reply to post by rusethorcain


Again, I've gone over this with many people too(slaves). Think of the culture back then, does it not reflect the times? You can't expect a book written back then to not reflect the culture at the time. What are you thinking?

Besides that moot point, there's another one I'd like to point out. Some of the earliest African slaves to arrive in the Americas found hope in...wait for it....the BIBLE!!! Why would African slaves find hope in a book that seemingly condones SLAVERY!? Hmm for more on this topic, HERE'S A2D!

Guess what also happened friend, the BIBLE was one of the main sources for pro AND con slavery stances in the civil war! You're failing to look at both sides of the coin.

Black slaves who converted to Christianity could relate very well to stories like the Exodus in the OT. It inspired hope and justice, and often times inspired ACTION.

The simple fact of the matter is, churches have ALWAYS been divided on the slavery issue. There are stories where slavery is oppressive and the victims overcome...stories of hope, justice, action, inspiration...But, there are also stories of owners being able to beat their slaves to near death and if the slave still lingers for atleast 24 hours then the owner is in no way prosecuted with a criminal act.

You may ask me, "A2D, what is YOUR stance?". Well friend, my stance is as follows: I don't condone nor condemn slavery. I'm neutral. If a man wants to have a "slave"(or what in biblical days was often referred to as a "maid" or "house-servant") then so be it. What he does to that "slave", on the other hand, is what is stored up in his heart. Surely if he has a good heart, he will not beat his slave. As for the slave, well, the meak shall inherit the earth.

“Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would Christ, not by the way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart.”

—Ephesians 6:5-6.

You have been misled and with that you carry your ideas so far they actually harm, damage and destroy other human beings...

Really? I have? Where's the EMPIRICAL PROOF?

edit to add: the rapist theory...wow...heard this one. Just because the mother was raped does that mean that the child is any less of a human? Does that make the baby sub-standard? You know what the pain of child-birth is from right? Don't give me that "it ravages her body" nonsense. It's supposed to. What else do you want? The stork to deliver it for her!? Give me a break...


[edit on 5-12-2009 by Agree2Disagree]

reply to post by Agree2Disagree


Utter rubbish. Slavery was universal until christianity outlawed it! Paul clearly teaches that all are equal in christ both slave and master. Also try to study up on who Wilberforce was in the UK parliament.

Some tried to twist the Bible to foster slavery, but the truth prevailed.

reply to post by SevenThunders


I'm sorry. What about my post is "utter rubbish"? And since when did Christianity "outlaw" slavery? Research the civil war. It was used for both Pro and Con stances....

No matter how hard you try to find a way to condemn slavery with use of Christianity, it just isn't there. Paul had many great opportunities to condemn the act of slavery in the Epistle to Philemon, however, we see no criticism at all. Paul was clearly unconcerned about "social ethics" when it comes to slavery. Why? Because as you said, slave and master are both equals in God's eyes.

[edit on 5-12-2009 by Agree2Disagree]

reply to post by Agree2Disagree


OMG!
I think this discussion is over, at least for me.

Originally posted by rusethorcain
reply to post by Agree2Disagree

 

OMG!
I think this discussion is over, at least for me.

whimpers away with his tail between his legs....

reply to post by oliveoil

She just doesn't get where your head is at and doesn't seek to change your opinion...it is what it is.

reply to post by oliveoil


When I am talking about Christians, I generally mean all of them, since the general concept of the religion is the same from each denomination.

My friend, you make it sound like every Christian is a saint. If you were to sit there and tell me that every single Christian gives help/clothes/food to the poor, or volunteers at a clinic or hospital, I would laugh. The simple fact is, there are many Christians out there who are FAR less... generous than you.

let me hopefully clear something up for you (i know i won't, but I gotta try). America is NOT a "Christian country" as you put it. some of the founding fathers had no religious affiliation. in fact, Thomas Jefferson was very vocal about his opposition to organized religion. Also, the words "In God We Trust" did not appear until 1864, and did not become the official motto until 1956. If America was indeed a "Christian country" as you wish it was, then wouldn't there be laws prohibiting the worship of other religions? Why would the founding fathers specifically include legislation that protects the free practice of other religions?

Before I go on, I would like to say that I agree not all Christians are the same.
But to answer your original question, if you would like to know my problem with christians, I will gladly tell you. It is the blatant arrogance and bigotry that is all too common from such a "loving and generous" religion. Many followers of Christianity are quick to pick and chose which parts they wish to follow, and are even quicker to condemn and pass judgment on those that do not believe the same that they do. As far as I'm concerned, religion of any kind is nothing more than a crutch. People need religion to give them someone to blame for their troubles, to justify their hatred, and to control and manipulate the innocent masses.

And finally, regarding the quote, "If you have a problem with Christians you have a problem with America." It is this arrogant attitude that leads to war. Christians are not the only ones who live in America (thankfully!). America does not belong to your religion. I LOVE America. I only wish I could personally thank those brave men who defied their tyrannical King so that we could live in a country in which I have a choice as to whether or not i want to believe in your storybook.

So please sir, CHILL OUT.

Originally posted by oliveoil
I am addressing everyone and anyone who has problem against Christians.
First off when you say Christians, Who the H. E. double hockey sticks are you referring to?
There are over twenty two denominations and or sects and they are not all the same.

True, indeed. I define christian as 'one who has accepted God as his only savior and master', for instance. Some others will have their own deffinitions for God, I'm sure.

Second, What is your big problem anyway? Is it that we have faith and believe in Christ?
Is it that we Cloth the poor? Feed the Hungry? Comfort the sick?Help the homeless?
(Whens the last time you did that?)

No problem against MOST christians, not me. Thing is you sound pathetically arrogant when you say you feed and cloth the poor, like it's some big deal or that by doing that you are better than most. Pride, I think, is one of your sins. What about human warmth? How often do you give it to your fellow man? Warmth comes not only from cloths, as your religion so abundantly speaks about. On the other hand, helping a brother, be it christian or not, is not a race with some prize, but rather a way of living.

FACT: America is a Christian country and was founded on Christian Values.

I bet it was, but unfortunately it preaches and it doesn't practice.

Our national motto is IN GOD WE TRUST for crying out loud,Which in my opinion is undeniable PROOF that the United States government acknowledges that the God of the Christian Bible exists.

If the United States government knows and acknowledges the Christian God, why is it it keeps on ignoring his commandments?!? Oh right, because it's the greatest country in the world, I almost forgot...

If you have a problem with Christians you have a problem with America. And God knows America does not need anymore problems. So please, just CHILL OUT !!

This is just silly. Do you know how arrogant this sounds like?!?!?!? Mix patriotic pride + God and you'll get laughed at, sorry. At least by me. DO YOU KNOW HOW ISLAMIC DO YOU LOOK LIKE BY SAYING THIS? I mean: you fight the infidels and say their god is the root of all evil and then you mix your god with your country. NAIVE! America doesn't need anymore problems? I bet it doesn't, especially when it created so many in the last 10 or so years. Using God as a shield or as spear is just wrong, since one should use it as a doctrine, a way of life. But that's me 2 atheistic cents, hope I didn't hurt your feelings or so.



[edit on 19-1-2010 by Faustian Spirit]

Originally posted by oliveoil
I am addressing everyone and anyone who has problem against Christians.
First off when you say Christians, Who the H. E. double hockey sticks are you referring to?
There are over twenty two denominations and or sects and they are not all the same.

Second, What is your big problem anyway? Is it that we have faith and believe in Christ?
Is it that we Cloth the poor? Feed the Hungry? Comfort the sick?Help the homeless?
(Whens the last time you did that?)

Or maybe its because of our close ties to Judaism and Israel.

FACT: America is a Christian country and was founded on Christian Values.

Our national motto is IN GOD WE TRUST for crying out loud,Which in my opinion is undeniable PROOF that the United States government acknowledges that the God of the Christian Bible exists.

If you have a problem with Christians you have a problem with America. And God knows America does not need anymore problems. So please, just CHILL OUT !!

Mods:please feel free to post where you think appropriate.

What you say acts as though all of the Christians are the same and do these things- they don't. I've known PLENTY of so called Christians who are arrogant and judgmental and do NONE of those things you listed, or if they do, they feel it entitles them to being better, or if you are saved you can sin all you want. The Bible even says this will happen, doesn't mean the faith is the problem, the people are.

We were founded as a generally Christian nation, yes, however, the First Amendment allows all religions, something many Christians can't see and would prefer a radicalized nation like the Dominion wants.

Where the hell did you get the government was Christian? They are probably one of the most corrupt institutes on the planet. IMF, World Bank, all goes through our leaders. OUr government tested radiation on pregnant mothers, the Tuskegee experiments and others; how are they doing God's work? The USA is NOT the best nation, it has the same problems as everyone else, and God doesn't play favorites with all the nations.

My bet? A lot of people see the arrogant ones and assume all are like that. And before you jump me, I'm a spiritual Christian myself. But these are reasons I don't go for organized religion anymore. Even as a child I was looked down upon in church for whatever reason.

[edit on 19-1-2010 by Darky5K]