My perception of reality. Whats yours?

What do you have to say about this then? Specifically about how we see.

reply to post by SeeingBlue

What do you have to say about this then? Specifically about how we see.

Bogus sensationalism conveyed by certain keywords, such as 'some scientists' etc; This isn't a view of science in itself as is claimed, but by only a few scientists alone. It also appears to allude to the possibility that everything there is to know about the brain and how it works is already known today. Which such a claim is quiet obviously bunk bullsh*t. I would love to meet someone who actually thinks we know everything about the least understood organ in our body, how it perceives, how it interprets outside signals, how it gives rise to a variety of phenomena that we are only now begining to study and hardly understand at this moment.

You see, this is *why* you need to adhere to the Sacred Principle of Scrutiny and Doubt and work by the Sacred Method alone. We are at a time where we are just now starting to learn about the brain, and a lot of what is being learned is poorly understood, sensationalized, opinionated, religious-ized, new age-ized, biased, etc. There aren't enough people who adhere to the Sacred Principles and Methods, everyone has an agenda that suits them alone and not the whole of reality. I saw nothing truthful in that video.

reply to post by SeeingBlue


The part with the vision and hearing being electrical signals is true, cut two out, how can that living breathing person interpret it?

We are beings, generating our own reality through observation. Chance/Choice/Luck, throughout space/time. we are the universe looking back at itself.

energy is radiating from all of us, that's why you can see things, and your brain can interpret what it is visually. your interacting with this, helping form reality... due to observation.

its a feedback loop. You see, you know its there. you take in information, and you give it back. you interact with your reality.
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sirenex, I dont know why you seem to be getting offended when someone doesn't see it your way, maybe you should step back off this thread for a bit, because it is seeming like your imposing your beliefs on someone, and when they mention something, you don't guide them to your idea, or share ideas, you just oppose it. as i have said before, its a metaphysical thread, there is an underlying urge to figure out what is. your reality, or understanding will be different from others, just keep that in mind.

reply to post by ugie1028

and when they mention something, you don't guide them to your idea, or share ideas, you just oppose it.

I don't oppose the idea, I oppose the language implied. I oppose absolute fact and truths or implied absolute facts and truths. Why do most of us humans act as if we know all that there is to know, that we've discovered the wonders of the universe, the human body, and the brain?

there is an underlying urge to figure out what is. your reality, or understanding will be different from others, just keep that in mind.

Exactly one of the dangers of exploring reality. If we both exist in reality, but your view and my view are both skewed and contradictory by biased held beliefs based on personal experience, then we haven't really come to understand reality have we?

The part with the vision and hearing being electrical signals is true, cut two out, how can that living breathing person interpret it?

We are beings, generating our own reality through observation. Chance/Choice/Luck, throughout space/time. we are the universe looking back at itself.

energy is radiating from all of us, that's why you can see things, and your brain can interpret what it is visually. your interacting with this, helping form reality... due to observation.

its a feedback loop. You see, you know its there. you take in information, and you give it back. you interact with your reality.

This implies explicit knowledge of everything there is to know about the brain. From my understanding, that knowledge and exploration of that organ is still very infantile. And yet somehow, people like you can make such bold and absolute statements and anyone who opposes that absolute statement is just closed minded or "just doesn't get it man"...

Why is light bright? Because that wavelength may just be getting processed that way or because it really is? That was my problem with the video. How can the brain see light when it is closed off to light... How infantile in understanding. Light isn't bright of it's own accord, it's processed as bright, other inputs can get processed as light as well, or light can get processed as sound. It's all about how that mysterious organ we *do not understand*, works.

Like I said, if you want to make bold claims of absolutes, then please back up those claims before I can accept them as absolutes. We're no more special than a grain of sand to this universe and I see no need to arrogantly exclaim we are the creators of the universe. I think the Aliens from Tau Ceti would call you a narcissistic egotist and then wipe us off the face of this planet. You think to highly of yourself, push that pride back where it belongs and follow the Sacred Method and Principles. The Sacred Principles of Humility and Courage can be your greatest friend, ignore them and you learn nothing.

For scientist to claim something is "real" enough of them have to agree on it. Well that doesn't make anything real as history has proven. They make experiments and take their best guess based on the results. Down the road they may learn something new that changes the way they look or carry out an experiment, changing the result, changing popular opinion and finally what is considered real... So I hold no faith in science, their guess is as good as mine.

In you post about the brain

Light isn't bright of it's own accord, it's processed as bright, other inputs can get processed as light as well, or light can get processed as sound. It's all about how that mysterious organ we *do not understand*, works.

Like you are implying above, If we don't directly perceive something exactly the way it's presented to us then we are converting, changing, processing it so that we can see it in the way we do. This means what we see is actually an illusion and different than what is out there, outside in front of your physical eyes.



[edit on 30-11-2009 by SeeingBlue]

Originally posted by sirnex
We're no more special than a grain of sand to this universe and I see no need to arrogantly exclaim we are the creators of the universe. I think the Aliens from Tau Ceti would call you a narcissistic egotist and then wipe us off the face of this planet. You think to highly of yourself, push that pride back where it belongs and follow the Sacred Method and Principles. The Sacred Principles of Humility and Courage can be your greatest friend, ignore them and you learn nothing.

If you believe science then how do you feel about the big bang? Everything came from one singular point, well even science says we are all one then. So we are not separate.

reply to post by SeeingBlue

For scientist to claim something is "real" enough of them have to agree on it. Well that doesn't make anything real as history has proven. They make experiments and take their best guess based on the results. Down the road they may learn something new that changes the way they look or carry out an experiment, changing the result, changing popular opinion and finally what is considered real... So I hold no faith in science, their guess is as good as mine.

I hold no faith in science either, and less so in my own personal views of the universe. Science is a constantly changing tree of knowledge and rightfully so. When a mistake is found, it is corrected. So while we can't hold faith that everything known by science right this minute is absolutely correct, nor can we equally use that as a challenge against the Sacred Method and exclaim that our own personal views and opinions supersedes all other attempts of learning more about reality.

Like you are implying above, If we don't directly perceive something exactly the way it's presented to us then we are converting, changing, processing it so that we can see it in the way we do. This means what we see is actually an illusion and different than what is out there, outside in front of your physical eyes.

You have to get over the infantile explanation of that video. There are a variety of different things that the brain can interpret a variety of different ways. Hell, we don't even process much of the electromagnetic spectrum at all. In a way, it's an illusion and yet at the same time it isn't. These thing's still exist, but all attempts to learn about them are skewed and screwed the minute you try to exclaim supreme knowledge of all that exists and claim your behind the wonders of the universe. People need to get the F over themselves, we are not special.

If you believe science then how do you feel about the big bang? Everything came from one singular point, well even science says we are all one then. So we are not separate.

I personally do not subscribe to the big bang theory as it requires a slew of inventions to make current observations fit the theory. I have a thing against paradoxes. Regardless, the BBT does not state that we are all one or of one thing. I really dislike people who claim something from science and speak of a theory without any true knowledge of the theory. I'm not sure if you just don't understand the theory or if your just blindly drawing conclusions to make them fit your biased views.

reply to post by sirnex


Science can't prove the big bang no more than they can disprove me.

Also I'm not trying to place myself above you, or above God. I'm trying to define us as all equal and the same.

Originally posted by SeeingBlue
reply to post by sirnex

 

Science can't prove the big bang no more than they can disprove me.

Also I'm not trying to place myself above you, or above God. I'm trying to define us as all equal and the same.

Your right, science can't prove you wrong, nor can I. But that is being dishonest in a way as your attempting to shift burden of proof. You can't just make an empty claim and go HA! Prove me wrong sucka's! That isn't exploring reality, that isn't attempting to learn what is real, that isn't even remotely intelligent. To define is to know and if you know, then the burden of proof shouldn't be that big of a burden on you.

I just don't understand all these ridiculous claims as if they were absolutely true and then if anyone demands evidence for these claims being true, we're met with bullsht garbage like being called closed minded or you just don't get it or your a troll or its something you just have to understand. You people are too damn uptight and arrogant for my taste. Swallow that pride and when asked for some god damned evidence, show it.

The claims aren't empty. There are just currently no material methods to judge non-materials things, only yourself.

You can get mad at other people for their beliefs your entire life but that isn't going to get you anywhere. People are going to oppose you. That's reality. So you are really wasting your time with trying to convince someone that has had their reality slapped away meaninglessly and showed things they didn't think were possible, that their wrong, what they experienced wasn't real or held no significance or meaning... You won't convince those people to do what feels like taking a step backwards and returning to their strict materialist definition of reality. There are forces effecting everything that science doesn't know about and to not know that is acceptable, but to know it and ignore it is nearly impossible.

I respect your freewill to believe what you wish. I ask you do the same for me. We've debated as much as we can, anymore is meaningless.

[edit on 30-11-2009 by SeeingBlue]

reply to post by SeeingBlue

The claims aren't empty. There are just currently no material methods to judge non-materials things, only yourself.

To me they are empty as I do not accept personal experiences as evidence for anything.

You can get mad at other people for their beliefs your entire life but that isn't going to get you anywhere. People are going to oppose you. That's reality. So you are really wasting your time with trying to convince someone that has had their reality slapped away meaninglessly and showed things they didn't think were possible, that their wrong, what they experienced wasn't real or held no significance or meaning... You won't convince those people to do what feels like taking a step backwards and returning to their strict materialist definition of reality. There are forces effecting everything that science doesn't know about and to not know that is acceptable, but to know it and ignore it is nearly impossible.

I am not getting angry for what people believe, I am angry with calling those beliefs truths and facts. I've experienced a lot of these so called claims myself, but when I explored other possible reasons for those experiences, they turned out to have more mundane explanations. I do not accept personal experiences as evidence for anything.

I respect your freewill to believe what you wish. I ask you do the same for me. We've debated as much as we can, anymore is meaningless.

I do respect your beliefs, I just don't respect your beliefs being discussed as if they were true for all things.

Originally posted by sirnex
I do respect your beliefs, I just don't respect your beliefs being discussed as if they were true for all things.

Beliefs aren't truth. Everyone knows that, but to like minded people who have the same beliefs we may discuss them amongst ourselves and anyone who would like to join in. Including you, but don't get upset about it.

Originally posted by SeeingBlue

Originally posted by sirnex
I do respect your beliefs, I just don't respect your beliefs being discussed as if they were true for all things.

Beliefs aren't truth. Everyone knows that, but to like minded people who have the same beliefs we may discuss them amongst ourselves and anyone who would like to join in. Including you, but don't get upset about it.

Like I said, I'm not getting upset about beliefs being discussed, I'm getting upset with beliefs being discussed as if they were true and if anyone disagrees with said beliefs they are called closed minded, don't just get it or are just trolling.

I'm not against any possible possibility, I'm just against the arrogant imbeciles who exclaim it's so amazing that X thing we don't understand right now must invariably mean Y. Like these idiotic claims that we create the universe through observation or oh my gosh, how can we see light if the brain is closed off to light. Infantile bullsht garbage devoid of any real intelligent thought or logic.

reply to post by sirnex


your talking about trolling, re-read what your saying...

calling so and so idiotic because they dont see it as you do...

Oh i see its 'do as i say, not as i do'

thats the way i am interpreting your statements.

Ill say this again, ITS A METAPHYSICAL THREAD, nothing is finite here! your views are going to different than others! so what if someone doesnt see it as you do, its your mind, do as you want with it, and let someone else toil with their thoughts. it shouldn't be any of your concern. putting or trying to put someone down because they dont see what you see, is a form of trolling.

reply to post by ugie1028


Elementary level

Any 16 year old that drops acid for the first time pretty much has the same view of reality as you. Take a deeper look at quantum mechanics and subjective/objective realities. A step up the ladder of consciousness will require you to have a better understanding of advanced physics as well a solid grounding in philosophy.

reply to post by sirnex


Sir, you obviously don't belong in a thread on metaphysics, you're using modern scientific thought as a basis for a discussion on subjective views :\

Nothing here can be proven one way or another, and while I agree that these people shouldn't be holding their beliefs as truths, I think you're being somewhat of a jerk for telling them their views are infantile just because it doesn't mesh well with your concept of how reality works.

Wise men know they know nothing...

reply to post by liketheplague


I do man! thanks for the replies.

there is so much to it, that it would require hours of typing, hours i cant lose ATM, but yes, it requires understanding of quantum physics, and the fundamental structures.

structures in the vacuum, are the 64 tetrahedron grid. Singularity.



BTW, i never used drugs to understand these concepts. these were all normal thoughts, with lots of thinking and reading. I have heard interesting stories from users, but this is a topic for a different day and a different thread.

reply to post by liketheplague

Sir, you obviously don't belong in a thread on metaphysics, you're using modern scientific thought as a basis for a discussion on subjective views :\

Please read all posts before making ill thought out comments. I am being called a troll for explicitly asking for these folks to cite sources in which *THEY CLAIMED* were backed up by science. Read everything before passing judgment, as I am not trolling nor arguing against, but I am asking for these folks to cite their damn sources they claimed agreed with them.

Nothing here can be proven one way or another, and while I agree that these people shouldn't be holding their beliefs as truths, I think you're being somewhat of a jerk for telling them their views are infantile just because it doesn't mesh well with your concept of how reality works.

Umm, yea a lot of their views are infantile. It's a very very immensely very valid observation. I never claimed to know how reality works, so it's a moot point. I asked for evidence of claims they made as stated as being back up by science; please read all posts before backing up the real trolls here who can't even use a single neuron and automatically think an inquiry is an ultimate attack.

Wise men know they know nothing...

NO DUH! Your telling the wrong person princess.

reply to post by ugie1028

your talking about trolling, re-read what your saying...

calling so and so idiotic because they dont see it as you do...

It has nothing to do with seeing it as I do. If you could just try to comprehend what I did say it was, then this wouldn't be an idiotic claim of yours. I explicitly stated that the discussions as if they were absolutely true are going to continue as such, then back those claims up. It's disgustingly moronic to sit there and exclaim, I KNOW I'M RIGHT YOU TROLL!

Oh i see its 'do as i say, not as i do'

It is about honesty and humility.

thats the way i am interpreting your statements.

It is of no fault of my own for your own lack in capabilities to comprehend explicitly simple and concise statements made by me. If you can manage to interpret, back up your claims rather than calling people who ask for evidence, troll; as meaning do as I say not as I do when I am making no contrary claims of my own... then... wow, just wow. Infantile logic 101.

Ill say this again, ITS A METAPHYSICAL THREAD, nothing is finite here! your views are going to different than others! so what if someone doesnt see it as you do, its your mind, do as you want with it, and let someone else toil with their thoughts. it shouldn't be any of your concern. putting or trying to put someone down because they dont see what you see, is a form of trolling.

Dude, get off the rag alright.

Asking for evidence and being called a troll for doing as such, will illicit a somewhat pissed off reply from me. You people made some god damned absolute truth statements and claimed they were backed up by science.... SO frigging prove it twinkle toes. If they're claimed by science, then this shouldn't be a damn big deal. You people are lying little fakes who pretend they stumbled on some profound truth, oh but we can't prove it because we don't have to and science agrees but we don't have to cite sources when asked because your just a troll.

ATS: Home of the infantile arrogantly ignorant logic whopper.

reply to post by liketheplague


That's a pretty stereotypical comment because kids can take said substance and treat them like it's a party. Then an adult can take the same said substance in a different setting and really experience something profound, meaningful and can feel more real than reality. I don't understand all said substances though, they are natural for one and the ancients used them but it is a realm that is every changing, ever shifting perspectives and experiences that can't be judged or measured by science.

Maybe they are like a reset, or a reminder and we experience them once with a clear open unbiased mind that one can not even achieve today and from then on work to reach those places on our own without the use of any said substances.