My perception of reality. Whats yours?

Originally posted by SeeingBlue

Originally posted by v01i0
reply to post by SeeingBlue

 

Originally posted by SeeingBlue

Everything you encounter or experience serves it's purpose in helping you.

I liked that one, I really did

Even the most stupid conversation, the most absurd situation, the most annoying person, or even the most meaningless moment can serve a purpose if you are paying attention.

-v

Exactly so I feel like that as long as I speak my heart, someone, even if only one understands it, reads it and take something meaningful from it that helps them then I've done what I was suppose to or would have done anyways, I'm just aware of why now.

Also with that being said I believe nothing happens without a reason. That everything works together and all aspects of reality whether nature, social, material, spiritual, all that is reality, the universe is interconnected and no one part is changed without affecting all the other parts in one way or aspect. This also leads me to believe that if everything happens for a reason it supports that everything is an experience for learning, but what are we learning for? Does this imply we are in a simulation? Something more complex but the same basic concept? So maybe it's a simluation, maybe it's not but what are we being showed and taught for? There must be a bigger picture beyond our perception then. Some greater purpose for the experiences we are experiencing here.

Edit for add.

[edit on 27-11-2009 by SeeingBlue]

And if you can still follow me, someone or some thing had to set all of the above in motion. Well going back to the beginning of everything being one and interconnected, I guess it was you.

reply to post by SeeingBlue


I do too believe that there is no chance, every result has a cause - not even a random number generated by computer is random, it is based to the seed, where the 'random' is generated from. If you roll a dice, the outcome is not random - nor is random a pulling out 'random' card from the card deck.

The search of the first cause has lead many to believe in creator or intelligent design. Or rather, the first cause is often used as an argument for the existence of god.

The questions of free will and the cause and consequence are related, but in a way so seems to be everything else too, as you suggested.

-v

reply to post by SeeingBlue


In a sense yes, when considering that the universe is you and you are the universe. But there are two sides in that coin, the coin itself being the universe.

-v

reply to post by v01i0


Sorry, I couldn't grasp your last line of your post before. I believe freewill can exist in a world without chance. It allows us to learn from our mistakes or repeat them and make different choices that progress our learning, but at the same time each choice has both negative and positive aspects attached.

[edit on 27-11-2009 by SeeingBlue]

Originally posted by v01i0
reply to post by SeeingBlue

 

In a sense yes, when considering that the universe is you and you are the universe. But there are two sides in that coin, the coin itself being the universe.

-v

Two sides as in..
Negative & Positive
Chaos & Order
1s & 0s
On & Off
Left & Right
Male & Female?

reply to post by SeeingBlue


Only freedom of choice in my opinion, not the free will which implies to be able to do anything that one chooses.

We are after all affected by the whole, which means our body, it's own functions, our mind with it's subconscious and conscious aspects, the exterior - the malkuth of qabalists, meaning the world and it's all natural urges. This cause the free will to be reduced in the freedom of choice - and some doesn't even have that.

Please bear in mind, this is merely an opinion, if you don't feel that it is reasonable, disregard it freely - I don't mind for I am not looking to change anyone's beliefs nor conceptions.

-v

reply to post by SeeingBlue


I was thinking exactly like that, and the whole coin being the whole coin, or the result of both.

Gotta get into the bed, it's late here - was already considering that before I even commented your post, so please don't take it as I would be bored to the conversation or anything like that. I just gotta get sleep - tomorrow is gonna be a rough day for me.

-v

reply to post by v01i0


Maybe I need to slightly adjust my belief to include your definition of freewill because I do believe we have freewill. We can put off learning, and ignore what the world around us is saying. Bury our lives in work, family, unimportant things and never really complete what we came here to do/learn all by our choice. Sure we were being shown things the whole time but we can choose to ignore them, repeat our mistakes and eventually forgetting the real purpose. Which could imply we might repeat the process...

Originally posted by whaaa
Who among you sees the arrogance of putting faith in primitive physics and metaphysics from a species that is still in its infancy? It's like a 5 year old explaining the subtleties of sex.

Exactly what I've been saying in a couple of other threads. You can't limit future knowledge based on current technological limitations. What we know now might be wrong and proven wrong in the future, so to put faith and belief on the one-hundred percent validity of it being true now is an exercise of futility; Unless one can prove to have obtained all future knowledge of all future discoveries and can prove that what we know now is the same as what we will know in the future.

The two forms of arrogant ignorance I see around ATS are the blind belief that science is absolutely right in everything it states today and the blind faith that there is only one God and that God is the Christian God. We don't understand reality nor do we know reality in our current stage of understanding reality. These arrogant acts of being a pompous buffoon and claiming to know all that there is to know in order to state anything as an absolute fact or discuss it as if it were an absolute fact is about as infantile as a baby eating it's own feces. They don't know any better and they are incapable of knowing until they are able to listen to reason.

reply to post by SeeingBlue

Yea, I understand and I can see how they almost have to be that way in order to stay unbiased. For a church in the public view, that makes sense.. but its not for me.

I personally feel that the exploration of reality is a task we should all undertake and in many ways we already do without realizing it. Basically, we're all realists in one way or another. Like I said and as the Church mentions, we're not against concepts of Deity, be it one God or a plethora of Gods having an orgy on top of a mountain. As long as it's real, we should believe in it. The only thing we should believe in is reality itself, whatever that may include.

Many people misunderstand my viewpoint. I'm not explicitly against anything being possible, not even God. I've attempted to start a thread on the exploration of God and creation from a different viewpoint, but no one, atheist and religious alike took any real interest into it's exploration. I am OK with a Deity, but I am not OK with blind belief in one. Hardly anyone seems to understand what a true open mind is all about.

I feel like my beliefs are more personal to myself and so I must have church by myself.

You exist in reality with the rest of us; Reality should be a belief that we all share and explore collectively in order to understand reality. The Church of Reality isn't against other religions or what they preach; The Church of Reality pretty much preaches a lot of the same good messages that all other religions do as well with one big difference. The Church of Reality is about positive evolutionism over extinctionalism. We can't explore and understand reality if we await an end to civilization or strive to better ourselves only with some set goal of attaining reward after death. You can still have your personal belief in Deity, but the only catch is that to call that belief truth, you need to prove it true with the Sacred Method, as does everything else, including all theories proposed by science. The Church of Reality doesn't believe in what is unreal, only in reality as it really is.

I don't feel that anyone will ever share my same exact views, as if I live within my own reality

That's why I refuse to accept personal experiences as accurate measures of reality. Contradictory experiences can't both be right, so they must both be dismissed straight away and explored separately to determine validity of being real without any other possible explanation arising for those experiences. We all exist in one reality, whatever that reality may encompass.

but that I can share my view with others in the hope that they can include it in their collection of information that they draw from and form their own reality from and maybe spark an interest that allows them to come to their own understanding of themselves. I just try to light fires of the soul, whether right or wrong, my intentions are only to spark new ideas and ways of thinking for yourself.

Preaching a good message is good, I have no issues with that. However, if that message involves a story or peculation being portrayed as a real absolute truth or fact, then I have to draw a line with the story itself. Man is capable of telling fictional stories without passing them off as absolute facts, so there is no need to pretend fictional stories are true unless proven to be true. This comes from the Sacred Principle of Honesty. You should always be honest not only to yourself, but to others as lies and deceit will only obfuscate exploration of reality.

Everything you encounter or experience serves it's purpose in helping you.

I absolutely agree.

Originally posted by sirnex

That's why I refuse to accept personal experiences as accurate measures of reality. Contradictory experiences can't both be right, so they must both be dismissed straight away and explored separately to determine validity of being real without any other possible explanation arising for those experiences. We all exist in one reality, whatever that reality may encompass.

I understand that and I don't ever expect any personal accounts to be passed off as concrete truth. I also do not claim to understand all that is this reality so I can not dismiss anything as impossible. You have a pretty concrete view of reality. You're open to anything that can be proven but I say we can't rely on science to explain everything, we must go out and seek truth for ourselves. This will lead you to the world within you which exist infinite possibilities all mashed up and untamed, hardly comprehensible to us, it is very real and we understand very little about it as a modern society. Others do though, and that's what divides the modern world from the tribal culture. We may view their ways as primitive and old but i believe that as far as the forces of nature & reality, which are one in the same, go they understand it, they heal with it, they explore it and are guided by it.

I think we need to strive to understand this, merge the two worlds into one. Modern society and tribal culture should come together as one, just as technology should merge seamlessly with nature... maybe in 2012, i can only wish

reply to post by SeeingBlue

I understand that and I don't ever expect any personal accounts to be passed off as concrete truth. I also do not claim to understand all that is this reality so I can not dismiss anything as impossible. You have a pretty concrete view of reality.

Thank you, I appreciate that. I know we've had our differences before, but it is just awesome that you're realizing that I'm not inherently against anything, but that I just require evidence that it's real in order to accept it as real.

You're open to anything that can be proven but I say we can't rely on science to explain everything, we must go out and seek truth for ourselves.

The Sacred Method exists solely so that we don't muddy reality with inner biased opinions of reality. So that reality doesn't become that which we think it is, want it to be or wish it to be. No one can work on their own to discover and explore reality as neither one of us are capable to building a mars lander in our garage and launching it in our backyards. Exploration is a joint effort, something we as a society needs to undertake as a society as we are social creatures.

This will lead you to the world within you which exist infinite possibilities all mashed up and untamed, hardly comprehensible to us, it is very real and we understand very little about it as a modern society. Others do though, and that's what divides the modern world from the tribal culture. We may view their ways as primitive and old but i believe that as far as the forces of nature & reality, which are one in the same, go they understand it, they heal with it, they explore it and are guided by it.

I can't imagine any amount if singular claims of knowledge without going through the Sacred Method would ever be considered as true. Without the Sacred Method, how else do you validate something as real? What other method of validation exists that doesn't rely upon faulty agreed upon shared personal experiences?

I think we need to strive to understand this, merge the two worlds into one. Modern society and tribal culture should come together as one, just as technology should merge seamlessly with nature... maybe in 2012, i can only wish

I agree, but I think all other religions of the world have to realize that the Sacred Method is not against them or their God, but that the Sacred method exists to protect them against false truths. The Sacred Method ensures validation over blind belief. Why by 2012 thought? This whole 2012 thing is a new age hoax, I've looked at the claims and I've looked at Mayan research, it's bogus and nothing is going to happen. Our calendars end every year, theirs was just a lot longer before it ended.

Originally posted by sirnex

The Sacred Method exists solely so that we don't muddy reality with inner biased opinions of reality. So that reality doesn't become that which we think it is, want it to be or wish it to be. No one can work on their own to discover and explore reality as neither one of us are capable to building a mars lander in our garage and launching it in our backyards. Exploration is a joint effort, something we as a society needs to undertake as a society as we are social creatures.

While I agree that no one person and come to know everything on their own because we are not individuals and are whole in the first place so we must come together as a whole to understand our reality but we still won't be able to expand our awareness much further than our reality without accepting and becoming one with the beyond.

While I'm not saying you are wrong but I would like to take you out on a limb with me for a moment, because we don't know everything, and lets imagine consciousness. There needs to be an observer for something to be observed. So there has to be consciousness before we can have material. This might be a leap but with that said we can imagine that our thoughts might spawn our material reality. So thoughts are creative, but collectively when talking about the whole, and both individually when talking about the person.

Now if the above were true then your statement would leave the masses in ignorance thinking they were all victims. Which is a lot of people I know today. They think everything is against them, they always have bad luck etc.. Well could it be that they don't understand what they are doing to themselves? This also allows the MSM to control our brains by letting us believe we are all victims and not the creator as oneness would lead us to know.

I can't imagine any amount if singular claims of knowledge without going through the Sacred Method would ever be considered as true. Without the Sacred Method, how else do you validate something as real? What other method of validation exists that doesn't rely upon faulty agreed upon shared personal experiences?

I don't really care what others consider true. The collective reality is corrupted with negativity at the moment so I prefer to focus and concentrate on my own reality which is more real to me than previously before I understood and makes more sense than the collective reality. The problem with validating something as real is you can't define real, it's definition is limited and filtered by your 5 senses but your brain processes much more than these 5 senses are even aware of. Beyond this material world, the world within is not made of material so you can probably only imagine how hard it would be to define anything as real in such a realm.

I agree, but I think all other religions of the world have to realize that the Sacred Method is not against them or their God, but that the Sacred method exists to protect them against false truths. The Sacred Method ensures validation over blind belief. Why by 2012 thought? This whole 2012 thing is a new age hoax, I've looked at the claims and I've looked at Mayan research, it's bogus and nothing is going to happen. Our calendars end every year, theirs was just a lot longer before it ended.

I probably haven't looked into 2012 as much as you have. I really like Terrence McKenna and his timewave, probably not accurate and the guy is dead now but it does tapper off around 2012. No big deal, could be fake or wrong. Now they say around the same time there is a galactic alignment. I can't prove or disprove this either as I don't have my own telescopes capable of proving this. I do know Earth follows cycles just like everything else does so I know change is inevitable, I just don't know when and to what magnitude and no change only affects one aspect of reality, if Earth changes, we change with it and so will our consciousness.

reply to post by SeeingBlue

While I agree that no one person and come to know everything on their own because we are not individuals and are whole in the first place so we must come together as a whole to understand our reality but we still won't be able to expand our awareness much further than our reality without accepting and becoming one with the beyond.

What do you mean by becoming one with the beyond? That's why I love the Church of Reality, it demands an unbiased approach and opinion to exploring reality. Only believe in that which is known to be real. We can hold views, opinions and speculations during our exploration, but should never discuss these thing's as if they were real unless proven to be real. Reality as it really is, not as we wish it to be or think it to be. It took me this long to realize this message on my own and only in this past week after discussing subjectivity vs. objectivity here on ATS; I just happened to stumble upon the Church a few days ago after reading a wiki article on reality.

While I'm not saying you are wrong but I would like to take you out on a limb with me for a moment, because we don't know everything, and lets imagine consciousness. There needs to be an observer for something to be observed. So there has to be consciousness before we can have material. This might be a leap but with that said we can imagine that our thoughts might spawn our material reality. So thoughts are creative, but collectively when talking about the whole, and both individually when talking about the person.

This is just an opinion though, or a biased personally experienced view of reality. From my own subjective experience and knowledge of consciousness, I see a different view to it; Which is why I distrust singular personal experiences, including my own. We're limited beings in the singular sense and we must strive to work together as dictated by the Sacred Principle of Positive Evolution in which we can learn and base our moral compass off of and how best to continue the species so we never stop learning about reality.

Now if the above were true then your statement would leave the masses in ignorance thinking they were all victims. Which is a lot of people I know today. They think everything is against them, they always have bad luck etc.. Well could it be that they don't understand what they are doing to themselves? This also allows the MSM to control our brains by letting us believe we are all victims and not the creator as oneness would lead us to know.

The only thing that is against anyone is themselves. That's why I don't understand half of these conspiracy theories. I don't believe in things like chance, randomness, or good luck and bad luck. People don't realize that you get out of life only what you put into life. If your lazy, well it should be no wonder that you're life sucks, paying bills is hard or why you don't have a girlfriend/wife/boyfriend/husband.

I don't really care what others consider true. The collective reality is corrupted with negativity at the moment so I prefer to focus and concentrate on my own reality which is more real to me than previously before I understood and makes more sense than the collective reality. The problem with validating something as real is you can't define real, it's definition is limited and filtered by your 5 senses but your brain processes much more than these 5 senses are even aware of. Beyond this material world, the world within is not made of material so you can probably only imagine how hard it would be to define anything as real in such a realm.

This is another biased personal view. What *is* this world within? How are you sure the world within doesn't arise from the physical world? What is it composed of, how does it exist, do we exist before we are born, how do we know if we can't have evidence for the world within? These are all valid questions that reality begs us to ask.

I probably haven't looked into 2012 as much as you have. I really like Terrence McKenna and his timewave, probably not accurate and the guy is dead now but it does tapper off around 2012. No big deal, could be fake or wrong. Now they say around the same time there is a galactic alignment. I can't prove or disprove this either as I don't have my own telescopes capable of proving this. I do know Earth follows cycles just like everything else does so I know change is inevitable, I just don't know when and to what magnitude and no change only affects one aspect of reality, if Earth changes, we change with it and so will our consciousness.

From thing's I've read on 2012, the Mayan's themselves and just general common sense of all other previous doomsayer cults, it just seems pretty obvious at this point that nothing will happen at all. After 2012 passes by without notice, like the Y2K Bug and all others before it, we'll see a new death cult mythology arise to takes it place. This is one of the thing's I love about the Sacred Principle of Positive Evolution, to make tomorrow better than today; Not to look forward to extinctionalism as a reward for being good; But to take an actual reason for morality and to apply that reason now in unselfish ways. What we do today for tomorrow is not for us today, as we'll be dead. It's for our children and their children. Much more noble in cause than any current religion that touts moral superiority in my opinion.

If you ask me those question then you have never traveled to places I have and you've never experienced something so profound that it forces you to question reality. Then you can't understand where I'm truly coming from. I believe though that if you could walk in my shoes you might loosen your grip on material and "real" a little bit.

It's Ok to disagree with each other though. Someone has to or it wouldn't be duality.

Originally posted by SeeingBlue
If you ask me those question then you have never traveled to places I have and you've never experienced something so profound that it forces you to question reality. Then you can't understand where I'm truly coming from. I believe though that if you could walk in my shoes you might loosen your grip on material and "real" a little bit.

It's Ok to disagree with each other though. Someone has to or it wouldn't be duality.

Experienced what exactly? I've had my fair share of personal experiences into the psychic and mystical world, but I looked for explanations for those experiences and found something more mundane called coincidental wishful thinking. What of this world within? Are you sure it's a real place and not a mentally generated vision created by a poorly understood organ that we know literally hardly anything about how it works?

Reality is this for me. Live in the moment. Be there. That is reality.

If you have one foot in the past, and one foot in tomorrow, you straddle today, and piss on it.

Be here, and now. Allow yourself to be who you are when you read my reply, without any preconceived ideas of what I might have, or had not said.

There it is. You are reading my reply. Actually be there, here, now.

reply to post by sirnex


I don't know to much about the place, but I do know it exist and it has a purpose. Things just don't happen to happen.... It's there for a reason and I plan to continue figuring that out.

reply to post by Blanca Rose

You're right. I try to think about it as much as I can remember to and return myself to the now. Thanks for bringing that up, I don't think anyone had.

Originally posted by SeeingBlue
reply to post by sirnex

 

I don't know to much about the place, but I do know it exist and it has a purpose. Things just don't happen to happen.... It's there for a reason and I plan to continue figuring that out.

To me, that sounds like it goes against what the Church of Reality teaches us. To not accept blind biased opinionated belief as if it were real. I don't discredit that you've experienced what you speak of in some form, and it sounds similar to what others describe through their experiences, but to me it sounds more like a dream state.

At this moment, I wouldn't necessarily call it a 'real' place capable of being explored and measured to discover what is real as it seems more like a subjective personal experience that isn't acknowledged to be real or experience-able by all things in reality.

It seems like too many humans are under the impression that it is our consciousness that creates reality. This just appears to be a tad bit to arrogant for my taste. Why not a Goldfish, or an Alien from Tau Ceti? Why are we always seemingly the most special and seemingly integral to the existence of the universe? Why not a Dolphin as they're nearly intelligent as we are, possess language and culture and this planet is more suited to their existence than ours as there is more volume of space for them to live compared to us. Why not have a cockroach be integral to the existence of the universe?

I just feel our species is too arrogant and too egocentric at this point in time to consider ourselves the most special of all creation. We need to break away from that and if we want to believe this is true, then apply the Sacred Method to the idea, if it is real, then it is real, but chances are... It is not real. Hence, I don't believe it as I don't wish to be viewed as arrogantly ignorant on my path to exploring what is reality. The Sacred Principle of Scrutiny and Doubt explicitly forbids me from holding opinionated beliefs as real.

[EDIT TO ADD]

Now that I think of it, perhaps the cockroaches are the more intelligent species compared to us. They don't have a need to build shelters or grow crops as they have enslaved mankind to do these thing's for them. We provide everything a cockroach needs for survival.

[edit on 29-11-2009 by sirnex]