Florida students suspended over ‘Kick a Jew Day’

reply to post by TrueTruth


don't think I don't understand

but I'd rather have quackers stay

better to discuss things just the way we're doing it now

making it go away never makes it go away

besides - I'd like to see and hear just how dumb dumb can get

aren't you curious?

:-)

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


I'm not sure how hurling racial slurs and rationalizing violence towards jews or children constitutes a debate. It's about as intellectual as a punch in the face.

Some things in life, just need to be stamped the heck out.

[edit on 28-11-2009 by TrueTruth]

Originally posted by HotSauce
reply to post by ZombieOctopus

 

So targeting someone for their race and/or religion is not a hate crime? I thought if you beat up a black man just for being black or a gay man just for being gay that was considered a hate crime according to the laws of this great land. So how is it ok to kick people just for being Jewish? Sound like hate to me.

Hotsauce, why are you so vindicitve?
They're kids. Just stupid foolish kids who have no conception of why they are doing this. They need to be taught that this is wrong. You cannot depend on them learning from parents who just may think this was a good idea.
It may also be indicaitve of an ominous undercurrent of resentment that has been building for many years in the general populace.


[edit on 28-11-2009 by OhZone]

reply to post by TrueTruth


no - it's not a debate - that's true

but it is real

quakers is just the tip of the iceberg

the OP's topic is about about this type of thinking exactly

those kids didn't come up with any of that on their own - where do you think they get it?

if what we want is an honest discussion about whether what those kids did was right or wrong - and whether or not it was handled appropriately - it's fair to hear from the point of view of those who think it was OK

that would be quackers

though he seems to have ducked out

:-)

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


ducked out... i like that.

i admit, you gave me pause with the idea of allowing his perspective in just to clarify that side of the debate, and that's groovy in terms of pure debate.

but we also live in a world, in in that world, quakers is contributing to the endangerment of people, and in that larger context, I believe his behavior needs to be consequated.

you're a good guy, Spira. Pleasure to meet you.

reply to post by TrueTruth


nice to meet you too :-)

but we also live in a world, in in that world, quakers is contributing to the endangerment of people, and in that larger context, I believe his behavior needs to be consequated.

in an even larger context - forcing him out so he can't speak has even greater consequences for all of us - ultimately

besides - there are consequences aplenty as it is

if he wants to stay - he'll have to keep arguing his point :-)

win/win

I wonder where he is...?



[edit on 11/28/2009 by Spiramirabilis]

If the kids that kicked the other kids
were all the same cloth would it all be ok?
What makes Jewish kids different from KIDS?

reply to post by Donny 4 million



Of course it's not ok.

But there is a difference between the two, and targeting someone based on ethnicity, etc, has a terrorizing effect on other members of that group.

crime vs regular crime....simple example.

*Person A spray paints his signature on a wall somewhere. Vandalism.

*Person B spray paints a swastika on a synagogue. Completely different.


Clear enough?

There's a difference.

Here is what is true tt
The article was just a mothers perception of a situation amongst kids.
No spray paint .
Your swastika and synagogue comment must come from some subconscious paranoia or phobia.
These kids did not spray painting anything.
They were at school not at a place of worship.
Tell me you know their motive.

Try to follow along. There's this thing called an "illustrative example". I used one above, to illustrate what differentiates a regular crime, from a hate crime, choosing something very easy to comprehend. But, I didn't consider that some people might still not be able to comprehend it.


Their motive? They premeditated their actions, and targeted Jews because they were Jewish. We don't need to know precisely why a person commits an assault to prosecute said crime. Similarly, we don't need to know precisely why the kids decided to target a minority group for to be assaulted, but they did - and that's a crime, regardless of the 'real' reason.

And no, it is not the mothers' interpretation. There were eyewitnesses amongst the student body, including some who heard them make the plan to do it. Try reading a few news articles about it before talking from your rectum.

www.nbc-2.com...

It is what it is. They predetermined to target Jewish kids for assault. It fits the definition of a hate crime on its face. If they were over 18, they'd be in serious doo doo - up to 3 years in prison, if I'm not mistaken.

Your opinion is immaterial to the law, as is your lack of understanding.

Perhaps this will convince you, even if you don't care or agree. It's the law.

www.csmonitor.com...




[edit on 28-11-2009 by TrueTruth]

[edit on 28-11-2009 by TrueTruth]

[edit on 28-11-2009 by TrueTruth]

So these kids are guilty of what CRIME?

No one has been tried or found guilty in any court.

You post your garbage as if you are judge, jury and executioner. Of WHAT?

A couple kids?

You post what you think is damning towards the kids that are JUST accused

without defense of their accusers.

This is from your link.www.nbc-2.com...

But one grandparent said he just chalks it up to kids being kids.

"Personally I think it's a non issue," said Raymond Brusca.

By Adam Freeman

Could this writer be biased?

Rectal speak is all you are worthy of.

They are not over 18 so your crime doo doo washes but at your feet.

You are a hate monger IMO.

The basic crime, is assault. Go kick somebody in front of a cop, and you'll receive a rapid education in the subject.

I'm a hate monger because I don't want kids being beat up, or minorities harassed? That's a new one.

The news source is as good as it's gonna get. And there were many, many eye witnesses. Don't know if you remember middle school, or ever worked in one ( i did ) but this kind of thing passes around very fast. It was done right out in the open. There's no controversy at all about the fact that it happened.

I have no idea why you're so heated, but you're coming off like a lunatic.

It's not a complicated story.

reply to post by TrueTruth


A lunitic goes round wanting to give kids three years in the pen without a trial or chance to defend themselves.
Judge jury and jailer.
Still no motive eh!
Shame on you.

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
reply to post by TrueTruth

 

A lunitic goes round wanting to give kids three years in the pen without a trial or chance to defend themselves.
Judge jury and jailer.
Still no motive eh!
Shame on you.

Good lord. Stop putting words in my mouth. I never said the kids should do jail time. They're kids! I clearly said, IF they were older, this could happen to them. I'd be more in favor of some sort of extended parole type situation, involving a lot of community service, counseling... that kind of stuff. And if they did it again? Expulsion. Again? Juvie.

Their motive? What's the motive EVER behind a race motivated crime? What's the motive for racism in general? I could offer you some guesses based on my study of behaviorism, or my time in education, but it's not only going to be a guess, and it's entirely irrelevent. Your question about this doesn't even make sense. Do we care what the motive for a rape is in order to punish the rapist? Do we care if he raped a particular woman because she's his type, or because he just likes hurting people, or because he just like raping? IT'S IRRELEVENT.

Targeting a person for a crime based on their race (calling it "kick a Jew day" makes that 100% unambiguous) fits the definition of a hate crime.

I don't think you care one lick about the victims, or for that matter, the kids who did the kicking. You're not doing kid a favor by teaching them that things that could get them in serious trouble down the line, are not big deal. That's called shirking responsibility.



[edit on 28-11-2009 by TrueTruth]

[edit on 28-11-2009 by TrueTruth]

How did the kids target the Jews? If they didn't know their last name then what did they do? Look for the fat wallets or the big noses?

Originally posted by Wormwood Squirm
How did the kids target the Jews? If they didn't know their last name then what did they do? Look for the fat wallets or the big noses?

I'm assuming that's a joke?

It's because people talk to each other. I might not have known it down to the last person, but I knew who was Jewish when I was in middle school, because people talk about it openly. It's not some kind of secret information.

reply to post by TrueTruth

Ya but it's a joke based in truth. The Jews are overwhelmingly well off compared to the rest of us and Jews often have big giant schnauzes

reply to post by quackers




Your comments remind me of the type of mentality that i witnessed and was told about after 9/11.
When mosques were trashed and muslims....men, women and children were attacked both physically and verbally...it was appalling.


I remember working with a couple of guys from Afghanistan at a computer place not long after 9/11 and some of the things that had happened to their nephews and brothers and sisters and so on was just wrong and made me ashamed of my fellow countrymen.

You're advocating a similar thing.


You think that somehow children and women and innocent people in general should suffer because of something that they know nothing about and have no control over?


Your comments are quite disturbing.


[edit on 29/11/09 by blupblup]

Originally posted by Wormwood Squirm
reply to post by TrueTruth

 

Ya but it's a joke based in truth. The Jews are overwhelmingly well off compared to the rest of us and Jews often have big giant schnauzes

ah. it's the 'not funny' kind of joke.

here's your first clue: Jews graduate college at almost tripple the rate of the rest of america.

not so mysterious - it's called 'hard work'.

get a new act.

Originally posted by TrueTruth

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
reply to post by TrueTruth

 

A lunitic goes round wanting to give kids three years in the pen without a trial or chance to defend themselves.
Judge jury and jailer.
Still no motive eh!
Shame on you.

Good lord. Stop putting words in my mouth. I never said the kids should do jail time. They're kids! I clearly said, IF they were older, this could happen to them. I'd be more in favor of some sort of extended parole type situation, involving a lot of community service, counseling... that kind of stuff. And if they did it again? Expulsion. Again? Juvie.

Their motive? What's the motive EVER behind a race motivated crime? What's the motive for racism in general? I could offer you some guesses based on my study of behaviorism, or my time in education, but it's not only going to be a guess, and it's entirely irrelevent. Your question about this doesn't even make sense. Do we care what the motive for a rape is in order to punish the rapist? Do we care if he raped a particular woman because she's his type, or because he just likes hurting people, or because he just like raping? IT'S IRRELEVENT.

Targeting a person for a crime based on their race (calling it "kick a Jew day" makes that 100% unambiguous) fits the definition of a hate crime.

I don't think you care one lick about the victims, or for that matter, the kids who did the kicking. You're not doing kid a favor by teaching them that things that could get them in serious trouble down the line, are not big deal. That's called shirking responsibility.



[edit on 28-11-2009 by TrueTruth]

[edit on 28-11-2009 by TrueTruth]

You are the one comparing this KID situation with adult crime.
If you know anything about behavior you would know that kids sort it all out
quite well as they mature.
That is how they figure there place and station in life.
It cannot be masked in political correctness or special laws.
I have been around longer than the majority alive today.
I grew up with Jewish kids, Italian kids, Irish kids, black kids,
Catholic kids, Lutheran kids, Puerto Rican kids.
I have talked to and became fond of kids from Viet Nam, Japan, Mexico,
and dozens of other countries.
We all did quite well and built the greatest democracy on the planet.
BTW--- when someone is raped--- the court tries that crime first to make sure
the person is guilty. And yes there is study after study to understand the crime
so that perhaps it can be dealt with in a mature preventive manner.
Your judgement of my thinking gives rise as to your motive and agenda.
Do you actually think the kids are of a separate RACE?????
BTW also-- Thanks for avoiding the insults this time around.