Could these be Lazar's 'Hangar Doors' at S4 ???, page 3

Originally posted by Kojiro
reply to post by aliengenes

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I'm sorry, but they can spend as much money as they want, but that doesn't make hangar doors magically invisible. There are frankly far more interesting possibilities for Tonopah's S4 than the alleged base at Papoose Lake. The Tonopah Test Range, for one, is far more isolated from civilization than even Area 51 and has a few areas that look like they could go into the surrounding mountains. It's also, interestingly, straight to the north of Papoose.

it does when they're textured to look like the surrounding terrain and after they've been closed for a while the sand just naturally blends them to become natural

reply to post by aliengenes

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Just... no. Man made structures stick out like a sore thumb. I think you should take a look at Tonopah Test Range S4 and its surrounding areas. There's even a dry lake bed. If Lazar's tale is true, it could be that there's some confusion involved on his part.

reply to post by Kojiro

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Technically the facility near Tonopah is Site-4, not S-4. It is used for "Have Glib", the foreign radar facility.

reply to post by gariac

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You don't think the S is short for Site?

reply to post by Kojiro

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Who knows what Lazar was thinking.

Papoose mountain is easily viewable by passing aircraftt. It really isn't a good place to hide secrets.

All the x-planes were perfectly happy sleeping in metal hangars on the base proper. You would think the saucers would be happy in a hangar too. ;-)

reply to post by gariac

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Well, on further research, it seems... what was John Lear and Gene Huff thinking as well? It seems that no where in Lazar's story was he actually told that his "Area S-4" was at Papoose Lake. Papoose Lake was apparently based on a deduction by himself, John Lear, and Gene Huff as they used clues from his story.

www.darkgovernment.com... (Fist few paragraphs.)

Which means... they could be completely wrong. Lazar could have even had his directions turned around (it is a desert after all).

Dry lake bed. Mountains nearby. There's a lot of that across the Nellis range. And there is an actual place called Site-4 which is actually near a dry lake and mountains and it's just south of the Tonopah Test Range Airport. It's also extremely isolated. Interestingly enough, there's also the colorfully named "Brainwash Butte" nearby. Why name it something like that unless you're cutely referencing something sinister?

reply to post by Kojiro

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Tom Mahood coined the phrase "Brainwash Butte." They were drinking Brainwash Cola at the time. I don't recall if they brought it with them from Vegas, but you can buy Brainwash Cola at the Death Valley Nut and Candy store in Beatty.
Death Valley Nut and Candy store
Brainwash Cola
They have the blue brainwash last time I stopped there (maybe 2 years ago), though it looks more purple to me. I've bought Brainwash Cola at BevMo.
Bevmo Brainwash
Not your not missing much, I mean soda is soda, but it you want to experience the atmosphere of the Interceptors, then you need to drink Brainwash Cola at least once. If it were up to me, you'd call it Major Dickason's Hill.

In the third paragraph of your link, it is claimed Lazar told someone else about Papoose Mountain. In any event, the walls of the mountains are not sandy. There is scrub brush on the walls (creosote, greasewood, etc) else the dirt would just wash to the ground. You need some brush to hold the soil together.

The dry lake has nearly no brush due to the alkaline soil Nothing grows in it. That is not the case of the mountain walls.
.

reply to post by gariac

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Problem is, that's after he's assumed that Papoose is where he went as per the second paragraph. Later on it's cited that he describes that there is a good dirt road and that S-4 is NOT underground. It is merely suppose to be nestled on the side of a mountain. Now as we've seen, there is neither a good dirt road at Papoose Dry Lake, nor does it look like there are any hangars outside built there. Furthermore, if S-4 is more secure than Area 51, well... Papoose Lake is far too close.

On the other hand, at Tonopah Test Range Site 4, there's dry lakes, mountains, good dirt roads, and curious, squarish mounds that're obviously camouflaged bunkers among other interesting buildings spread throughout the area. I frankly think Lazar got his directions messed up, which is easy to accomplish considering how similar a lot of the areas look.

reply to post by dennisdvx

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How do you zoom in that close on google earth? do you need to buy the package?

reply to post by Kojiro

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It would be a significant drive (if even possible) from Groom Lake to Site-4. It would make more sense to fly to the TTR then drive to Site-4. That is what they do now.

There is a valley just north of Groom Lake. There is a bit of infrastructure out there. That would be a more likely alternate S-4 location.

reply to post by gariac

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TTR and Area 51 don't look that far apart, especially on a bus. Maybe if you're hiking, yeah, but it'd frankly be a waste of jet fuel to fly between them since they're only about fifty or so miles, give or take, apart. Take a look at Google maps to see what I mean... just drive past a few ridges and you're there.

On a day of low to nonexistent traffic, it only takes me between a half hour to an hour to get to Seattle from Tacoma. The desert highways and dirt roads have no traffic. A bus would have no problem making the time from Area 51 to TTRS4.

reply to post by Kojiro

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You might want to go into google earth with the terrain turned on and tilt the image a bit. It would be a long drive. Take the NTS tour and drive on dirt for a while. The busses do about 40 mph tops.

Groom does Beech Janet flights to the TTR as needed. They really wouldn't go by bus that far. The NTS doesn't even like their own people wandering around in these remote areas. The repeaters don't work so they have to use sat phones.

reply to post by gariac

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I gather you didn't look at the map at all. There's a bit of highway that connects the dirt roads between the two in a north-eastish angle.

reply to post by Kojiro

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Don't make assumptions of what I have done. You have failed to explicitly state the route.

Trust me, they would not do this drive off road. I've driven off road around the range. Most of the time you are doing 25 mph. The road has to be bladed to get to the 40mph range.

Your theory really defies logic. The base flies to the TTR and then buses personnel to site-4. You can watch this from points east of the TTR. There is no reason to fly to Groom Lake then take a bus to Site-4 over dirt roads. If anything, they would just take the bus to the front gate, go on the ET Highway, then turn down Cedar Gate to get to Site-4.

reply to post by EartOccupant

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With multispectral imagery, camo isn't very effective.
For the poster that insists Site-4 is S-4, not that Site-4 is not in the "box." Red Flag participants, even foreign aircraft, can fly over Site-4.

site-4 photographs

The link has my photos of the radar at Site-4.

reply to post by gariac

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If you had looked at the map, you'd know how the roads connected, and there is road connecting both points unmistakably. In any case, the Air Force didn't have their Jayhawks until 1992. Lazar's story is from the 80s. Besides, wouldn't it be easier to have used beechcraft to fly their personnel from Las Vegas instead of using the legendary buses that read Area 51 on the side?

Furthermore, it would make sense that S-4 means Site-4 as military designations have a way of being shortened like that. F-22 means, for example, a Fighter aircraft of the 22nd model designed.

reply to post by Kojiro

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Have you heard of lat/lon? It is a way to correspond with others regarding geographical locations. You seem to see what you want to see.

Jayhawks?

There have been small prop planes flying to the TTR through the 80s. Haven't you read "Red Eagles?"

So far you have said nothing that gets around the glaring problem in your theory (Site-4 is S-4) the Site-4 is not in the box. Military planes can fly over Site-4. There is a UK crash near Site-4, so foreign planes fly over it. The JT3 contractors crashed near Site-4.

Seriously, your theory doesn't hold water for anyone familiar with the NTTR and how it operates.

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