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German General Quits Over Afghan Strike

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posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 05:32 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


So other countries involved in this conflict decides, oh "oh you know what let ssteal oil/gasoline for them american taxpayers", they will not mind, after all we are all apart of NATO!

Do you really see how ridiculous your comments are shown to be?




posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 05:39 PM
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reply to post by Laurauk
 


I really see you not looking for evidence of this on your own and trying to change the topic of the thread.

The thread is once again about a MORAL German Army Officer in fact the Commander of all it's Armed Forces resigning over the tragic death of innocent, men, women and children.

Do you see how deflective your arguments are? I do!

The thread is about people using their conscious and acting accordingly in the face of having been involved in something morally wrong.

The thread is not about trying to promote what is morally wrong by promoting the bigorty or prejudices that allow people intent on violence to justify their own warped desire for bloodlust, death and slaughter.

The truly desperate people on this thread will never recognize their own desperate actions because to them murder and butchering innocent men women and children is part of their hate filled goals and agenda in life.

The U.S. Taxpayers pick up the tab for the pro-Zionist anti-Muslim crowd who advocates these wars of slow attrition for profit at the expense of the American people for not one thing to do with American's safety and security.

In fact the whole effort makes us less safe and secure and a whole lot poorer too and the only way out is by morally accepting how wrong it is...

Just like this German General did which is what the OP is about.



posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 05:44 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Excuse me, you were the one whom, claimed that NATO Stole from every American taxpayer in the US not me!




NATO is not an Afghanistan based orginization. Actually NATO stole the fuel from the American Taxpayer at highly inflated costs.


One is asking you, weither you take into account of the EU Taxpayer ?

Yes ? No ?

Nor the UK TaxpayER?

Only the US Right?

UNBELIEVABLE.


[edit on 26-11-2009 by Laurauk]



posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 05:48 PM
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reply to post by Laurauk
 


Once again the thread is a German Army General a MORAL German Army General who has done something NO ISRAELI ARMY GENERAL has ever done and that's resign his commission in SHAME over the fact that innocent women and children were killed.

If you really READ the thread you would know someone else ATTEMPTED to JUSTIFY the COLD BLOODED MURDER OF 40 INNOCENT CIVILAN MEN WOMEN AND CHILDREN BY CLAIMING THAT IT WAS JUSTIFIED OFF THE THEFT OF GASOLINE.

The thread is not about justifying the murder of innocent men women and children, it's not about the theft of gasonline its about the MORALS or a MORAL soldier who resigned in shame and protest that innocent men women and children were murdered through his command.



posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 05:56 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


I am not derailing the thread, I want you to back up your claims, that NATO, stole fuel from the US Taxpayer.

You can start another thread if you want I will leave this one, after your responce.

Is all I am asking, intead you are repeating your comments over and over wihtout giving answers to them.



posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 06:04 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 
Court of law?You do know that a war is being waged don't you? Legitimate selfe defense cannot take place here as a soldier can be assigned a mission to go on a raid or full assault e.i attack first with deadly force(murder).




Now the story doesn't say that the Taliban was attacking the Germans does it?

So please explain how the Taliban got the two fuel tankers. According to the BBC they were hijacked on their way from tajikistan and the drivers were beheaded by the taliban , ouch.



In fact the story is about a German and his concious (you mean conscience) and him resigning over his concious.

I know what the story is about and I've already said in my first post he did an honorable and responsible act by resigning , but you're here on a tirade bashing NATO and the allied forces for civilian deaths they try to avoid but not the taliban that you seem to admire and love. According to the bbc report the taliban , when one of the trucks was stuck in the mud in the middle of a river , encouraged civilians to come , knowing full well danger was imminent.



how many Israeli Army Commanders have resigned over the deaths of innocent men, women and children they have bombed?

Hey , I asked that question first in my first post , how many taliban commanders have stepped down over civilian casualties brought on through car bombing and suicide bombers and as far as I know israel is not fighting in afghanistan. How did they get in?



Now if the rest of the militaries involved in Afghanistan could follow this man’s example we would have no doubt leaderless armies over there that could just come home!

This is what you're really after.



posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 06:06 PM
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reply to post by Laurauk
 


Once again the thread is about the Morals of a German Army Officer who resigned his command in shame and disgust over the tragic and needless deaths of innocent men, women and children who died horrible and unjust deaths under his command.

Once again someone else on the thread tried to justify these murders based on the alleged theft of gasoline.

Once again all gasoline delivered to the war zone is done through an American Private Contractor and paid for by the U.S. Treasury which is exclusively funded by the U.S. Taxpayer.

Once again since the war in Afghanistan is not a legally declared war by the U.S. Congress all moneys and materials used in the waging of it that come from the American Tax Payer have been stolen.

Once again the thread is about Morallity and a German Army Officers solution to a moral dilema and not Gasoline and your posts have all been entirely off topic.

You do understand what the thread is about?



[edit on 26/11/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]



posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 06:17 PM
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reply to post by De La Valletta
 


Once again the thread is about the moral actions of the highest ranking member of the German Military resigning his command over the needless deaths of scores of inncent men women and children that died as a result of military action he ordered.

This seems to be a very hard thing for some people to wrap their minds around.

Neither the Taliban nor Afghani citizens attacked anyone for self defense to become an issue.

If you are referring to 19 alleged Saudi Arabian Highjackers who's cells were alleged to be in Germany, London and Florida by the logic you are employing Florda, Germany and London should have been attacked not Afghanistan.

This thread is about the realization of a highly decorated soldier realizing it's wrong to kill innocent, men, women and children in a nation that never attacked another nation for a vague war of Muslim attrition.

Want to advocate for Muslim attrition, be honest enough to say that's what you are doing.

I advocate for peace and some people aren't even honest enough to let other people who are honest be taken at their own word.

Because they have to twist everything to fit their war of Muslim attrition which is based on emotional transference of a untried tragedy being used to emotionally manipulate people to transfer their anger onto wholly unrelated innocent men, women and children. Mental health workers call that sick. You call it what ever you like friend.

The thread is about someone with morals doing the moral thing.

How funny it would bring out the crowd who advocates for doing the immoral thing in justifying the barbaric and cold blooded murder of innocent men women and children who have never done one thing to harm them in their person or property by trying to make it seem they are guilty of something through emotional transference and then attempting to manipulate the required emotions to do that.

Talk about pathetic and that's truly what it is, pathetic.



[edit on 26/11/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]



posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 06:54 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Which means, since you are nt willing to answer the claims you whon have paisted, one would conceed this thread be removed to the gray area!

Since the OP has only attacked, without answers etc..

That in my book is misleading...



posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 06:58 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 




Rather than make excuses for the failure to get accurate intelligence first or to attempt to minimize the civilian casualties the German Commander resigned his commission of his own volition and accord displaying a rare level of accountability, professionalism and honor in this unseemly and dubious War on Terror where civilian casualties far outpace those of enemy combatants.


From what I read he quit because he was caught in a lie. Never saw the part about feeling guilty or any of the other stuff you made up.



posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 06:58 PM
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reply to post by Laurauk
 


Once again you are off topic, the thread is about a German Army General resigning his commission.

Can you debunk that? Can you prove that the General didn't resign his commission?

Or does the actual topic of a person having a fit of concious over the needless deaths of innocent, men, women and children have you in some state of denial that causes you to latch on to a vague aspect of the thread in a deflective attempt to avoid the full moral ramifications of such a distinquished and high ranking person having a fit of concious.



posted on Nov, 27 2009 @ 10:22 AM
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reply to post by mrmonsoon
 


I have to strenuously object to the phrase "act like animals". Since when do animals go far out of their way to kill and injure other life forms? This is something humans do, not animals.

I also must protest the flippant use of "terrorist" as a label for anyone who fights against western interests, especially in their home country. We used to call these people "freedom fighters", those who fight for autonomy and self-determination.
Even if you justify our presence in Afghanistan with the old "they attacked us on 9/11" excuse, those who actually helped in those attacks are probably all dead (we know the hijackers are!). SO just who the hell are we fighting? The people were fighting now had NOTHING TO DO WITH 9/11. period. They are fighting for self-determination and something we used to call "freedom". We have no right whatsoever to still be in their country and should be leaving and not throwing more fuel on the fire. This can only get worse and if Pakistan melts down into a general civil war instead of a regional one we will lose more personnel than we did in Vietnam. For what purpose? to control the opium production or is it oil?
We have thrown our own necks into the noose of a region where empires go to die. The US as a nation stands to gain nothing from our presence there but to loose more blood and money. Are you willing to spend yours there?



posted on Nov, 27 2009 @ 10:29 AM
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reply to post by Asktheanimals
 


In my humble oppinion the reason many non-Americans, pro-Zionists argue for these barbaric War on Terror principles is because it suits two goals that they have.

1. Is Muslim Attrition. Israel's paranoia is all about a numbers game where there will always be more Muslims in the region than Jews: Solution attrition against Muslims being done by non-Jews. It's why the Zionists always argue so strenuously and constantly for the War on Terror.

2. Is to enslave America and erode it's sovereignty through debt. We are incurring Massive Debt in waging these wars and a good portion of our Sovereignty then goes to the Creditors we as citizens of America become enslaved to this debt and the debtors gain power over us including the power to task our principals with fighting these insane and inhumane wars of attrition.

The actual biggest looser in the War on Terror is the American citizen and the American Dream. The big winner in the War on Terror is the Israelis and Zionists who very much want a world they can manipulate based on debt and fear.

America's so called friends and allies are in fact anything but.



posted on Nov, 27 2009 @ 03:52 PM
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this thing is just what the Taliban wants.. they want political undermine our nation , yes there might have been civilian deaths but can that be proven .. The Taliban is using of children and women as human shields and even if they are not doing in some of the occasions they would rush in after an airstrike too take away munition and weapons of the people and then after wards claim that those people killed in the attack were civilians .. Taking weapons away of your killed soldiers and then proclaiming they were civiilians killed by western troops is an act of evilness and we should get the media informed of this because they are currently undermining our view ect on a just battle for freedom, every battle give people freedom and a choice to learn and be what ever they want to be with out the religious fascism , muslim or christian underming freedom and commiting acts of cruelties is a just cause.

[edit on 27-11-2009 by MarkLuitzen]



posted on Nov, 27 2009 @ 04:23 PM
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reply to post by MarkLuitzen
 


Sounds to me like the Taliban are definately fighting to protect their own sovereignty for foreign agressors and people who think there is some grand strategy on their part to 'undermine' 'our' nation, especially those who aren't even citizens of either Afghanistan or the United States are in fact working to undermine both the United States and Afghanistan by their individual desire to chime in on strategy in a war that doesn't involve them in any direct way but obviously Americans killing Muslims appeals to them in some kind of indirect way.

I would definately say uninvolved third parties advocating for war and death and making excuses about foreign armies in a foreign land killing innocent, men, women and children of a land that never attacked any other nation very much are working to undermine both Afghanistan and the United States with their self serving advice.

I wish we here in America could send such 'concerned foreigners' the 11 trillion dollar bill their war mongering effots and 'concerns' have racked up.

Hopefully such questionably intentioned fools never have their nations attacked by organized armies of foreign agressors and have to watch read some third party interloper making excuses for the butchering of their own innocent loved ones.

For as well deserved as such a turnabout might be I for one wouldn't wish violence on anyone. Even the totally ignorant and obscene.



posted on Nov, 27 2009 @ 04:52 PM
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After reading about the General's decision of resignation on his own accord, it is very honorable. Therefore, at the very least, the only thing he could offer to the families of those who were killed as result of his order, is resignation, and a forthright resignation under his own auspices, rather than a forceful resignation by a German court or the government.

It takes stones to do what he did considering his position in the Bundeswher. He is not a lowly private, but a General. He staked his reputation and career on this resignation, and it should not be taken lightly. By this act alone, he is a man of integrity and moral fortitude. If all battlefield commanders had the stones this German General has, the soldiers are in good hands. He, exclusively, took the fall, for his bad call, instead of weaseling out of it, and to drop the excrement bag on the doorstep of a subordinate.

Folks, this is leadership, plain and simple! It is also known as the "burden of command," in military circles. If someone messes up, it is the commander who takes the fall. At least in an ideal sense that is the way it is supposed to be. One example of the the burden of command, is when that US sub commander ordered his vessel to surface, and unfortunately when he did, their was a Japanese fishing vessel above. Many on board the fishing vessel were killed. Rather than pass the buck, he took the blame as the boat's Executive officer.



On 9 February 2001, while conducting an emergency main ballast tank blow off the coast of Oahu while hosting several civilian "distinguished visitors", mainly donors to the Battleship Missouri Memorial, the Greeneville struck the commercial Japanese fishing vessel Ehime Maru (えひめ丸), causing the fisher to sink in less than ten minutes with the death of nine crew members, including four high school students.[1] The commander of the Greeneville, Commander Scott Waddle, accepted full responsibility for the incident. However, after he faced a court of inquiry, it was decided a full court-martial would be unnecessary and Commander Waddle was forced to retire and given an Honorable discharge.


en.wikipedia.org...

The display by the General should be acknowledged and commended. He is taking the fall for his actions as all men with a spine should do, regardless of their rank and title. Thanks for sharing this article, Proto.





[edit on 28-11-2009 by Jakes51]



posted on Nov, 27 2009 @ 05:38 PM
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reply to post by Jakes51
 


You are welcome friend Jakes51. I too thought it was an exceptional act of integrity one doesn't often see in this day and age.

For a man like the General who had achieved the pinnacle of his military career by ascending to his nations highest ranking Officer it says a lot about both the German Government and he himself to have chosen honor over power, prestige and position and to end another wise distinguished career through his own display of integrity.

Pretty ironic isn’t it Jake that most of the posters to the thread would miss the moral of the story in a shameless yet shameful display of their own lack of them!

It’s nice to see there are still some people of the Generals caliber that get it, and applaud it.

As always thanks for posting and a great addition to the thread Jakes51.



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