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German General Quits Over Afghan Strike

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posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 09:19 AM
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German General Quits Over Afghan Strike


www.military.com

November 26, 2009
Agence France-Presse

Germany's top soldier and a senior defence ministry official quit on Thursday over a controversial strike in northern Afghanistan in September in which NATO says as many as 142 people died.

The resignations, announced in parliament by Defence Minister Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg, followed press reports that information about the September 4 strike ordered by a German commander was withheld.

Chief of staff General Wolfgang Schneiderhan "has released himself from his duties at his own request," zu Guttenberg said. "State secretary (Peter) Wiche
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 09:19 AM
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Well this is a sad but refreshing and somewhat reassuring article regarding the German Army and its recently resigned commander. Reading it one almost might wish that the allies and axis alike were tried for War Crimes and Crimes Against Humanity at the conclusion of World War II as it appears quite the honorable thing that the former German Army Commander did in stepping down.

After ordering an Air Strike on a couple of stolen fuel tanker trucks sought to be in possession of the Taliban and no non-combatants it turned out that as many as 40 of the people killed and injured in the strike were civilians. The German Army Commander then subsequently admitted that the intelligence was sketchy and he took a risk ordering the strike even though ordering an Air Strike against targets where civilians might be present is against the NATO rules of engagement that binds and dictates the actions of coalition forces in Afghanistan.

Rather than make excuses for the failure to get accurate intelligence first or to attempt to minimize the civilian casualties the German Commander resigned his commission of his own volition and accord displaying a rare level of accountability, professionalism and honor in this unseemly and dubious War on Terror where civilian casualties far outpace those of enemy combatants.

Now if the rest of the militaries involved in Afghanistan could follow this man’s example we would have no doubt leaderless armies over there that could just come home!


www.military.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 09:23 AM
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The commander, Colonel Georg Klein, called in the NATO airstrike against two tanker trucks carrying fuel that had been seized by Taliban insurgents near Kunduz, fearing they could be used to attack troops.

The strike is believed to have killed not only militants but also between 30 and 40 civilians, according to a report by the NATO military alliance.

The mass-circulation Bild daily cited a confidential army video and report that the paper said showed that Klein could not rule out the presence of civilians around the trucks when he ordered the strike.

If that is the case, NATO rules of engagement state that Klein should not have ordered the bombardment.



It's hard to imagine the American Joint Cheif of Staff resigning over the hastily advised and executed actions of a subordinate.

Its an amazing thing to see in this day and age and I suspect there is a lesson to be learned as to why the Germans would display this kind of morallity on the battlefield.



posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 09:36 AM
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Funny how when things are only one side presented, the whole story is not present.

Taliban terrorists stole several fuel trucks from NATO.

Rather than allow the terrorists 4 or so trucks of fuel to be used against them, they ordered an air strike to destroy them rather than allow terrorists to have the fuel.

The terrorists allowed civilians around the tankers in hopes that this would protect the terrorists and their stolen fuel.

They were wrong.

The civilian loss of life is very sad, but CLEARLY, the fault of the taliban terrorists.

This is typical muslin terrorist tactics.

Like hiding terrorists and weapons in mosques or launching attacks from in the middle of civilians.



posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 09:51 AM
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reply to post by mrmonsoon
 


Wow did the 'Muslim Terrorists' pull the German triggers you think?

Now would those civilians supposedly being used by the terrorists be Afghans or Germans you think?

Do you think this attack happened in Germany or Afghanistan?

It's amazing that anyone's mind could be so convoluted and distorted and brainwashed that they would blame innocent civilians being butchered by foreign interlopers in their own country doing nothing wrong and not having harmed anyone as being responsible for their own murders and not the murderers themselves who were neither Afghani or ever attacked by Afghanis.

Terrorists are at least human beings some of the excuses people make to excuse bloodlust and wanton murder sure don't seem remotely human to me.

In fact its such warped and insane murderous people that are responsible for the root causes of terrorism.




posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 10:45 AM
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Perhaps this general remembers what happened in Dresden. Maybe he felt bad about a bad decision that got some innocent people kill. "Terrorists" or not, innocent people died over some $#@!%^& fuel.



posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 11:16 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 

So you are saying the terrorists were right to steal the oil then attract human shields. Hmm who's thinking is convoluted I wonder , yours or the other guy's?


At least I can find some honor in what the german general did in taking responsibility for the action and stepping down , who knows maybe he should be shot , but where is the taliban commander who steps down every time a suicide bomber kills innocent civilians , oh right there has never been any , therefore they have no honor, no shame no honor. I will tell you right now that if they had to deal with china or even another muslim country , this war would be over with their human rights records (human shields , what human shields? ; torture? this is interrogation).

You my friend seem to be suffering from Stockholm syndrome e.i you've fallen in love with the enemy , they can do no wrong , they're such angels. You should be sent to the front with a sword and shield , then we'd see how nice your taliban are.



posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 11:20 AM
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The general's actions are honorable, but not necessary. We all have bad errors in judgement when it comes to war but it does not mean we need to resign from our duties, especially at a general's level.



posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 11:25 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


As is common "for some" the post or responses are not addressed.

Just diversion from the truth.


The truth, even though some refuse to deal with it......

Terrorists stole fuel trucks from NATO.

The trucks were destroyed to keep the fuel from being used against NATO by muslin terrorists.

It is 100% the fault of the muslin terrorists who stole the fuel trucks.

I know "some people" are not capable of admitting muslin terrorists continue to cause nothing but death and misery.



posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 11:46 AM
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The problem with fighting asymmetric warfare, is that our enemies know that Western armed forces prefer to avoid killing civilians if we can help it and have developed tactics to exploit it. Our innate liberalism and our compassion are seen as a weakness to be taken advantage of.

It does raise a lot of interesting questions about how we should fight wars against these types who refuse to play by our rules. If we ever expect to win, that is.

Did this General resign out of protest or because it was a blunder on his part?



posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 12:11 PM
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reply to post by De La Valletta
 


The circular logic of bigoted and violent prone people intent on pretending exercising their blood lust is some how making the world a safer and not deadlier place is impossible to defeat since such notions and people are self sustaining.

The reality remains that you do not live in Afghanistan and that gasoline belonged to a foreign army of interlopers waging a war of attrition and opression in Afghanistan.

Had they not been there their gasoline would not have been stolen.

See how that works. The fact that you supprt that foreign army and a war of attrition against innocent ment women and children and can justify their deaths by conveniently overlooking a whole host of things that make the foreign invaders far more responsible than the domestic defenders only serves to display the level of dementia some people will aspire to in order to exercise murderous rage against their fellow human being.

Of course you have a way to justify that all murderers do tend to have some self sustaining reason to indulge their criminal and violent natures.

The fact that other criminally minded violent people support that same brand of barbaric logic does not make it sound or just it just makes for a war torn planet where those who live by the sword shall die by the sword.

That gasoline would be worth one person's life is tragic enough, that it would be worth scores of life, tends to reflect the thinking of people who place more value on material things than human things.

Feel free to attempt to justify that to the cows come home but you never will which is why the pro War on Terror crowd cries so loudly and so virulently when it's inhumane actions and thoughts are held up to the magnifying glass of humanity.

Thanks.



posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 12:15 PM
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reply to post by mrmonsoon
 


NATO is not an Afghanistan based orginization. Actually NATO stole the fuel from the American Taxpayer at highly inflated costs.

NATO which is not an Afhganistant based orginization but is made up of uninvited foreign interlopers propping up a corrupt criminal puppet regime in a small sliver of the country intented to use the fuel to MURDER Afghanistan citizens.

That is why the Taliban stole it and because NATO a non-Afghanistan Based violent orginization is there solely to murder Afghanis any excuse would do.

However a German Officer and a Gentlemen resigned his comission in protest over his own concious because of the tragic and totally unnessecary loss of civilian life caused by his orders and his troops.

Concious might be a foreign word to you but evidently its not to everyone.



[edit on 26/11/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]



posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 02:27 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


"Terrorists are at least human beings some of the excuses people make to excuse bloodlust and wanton murder sure don't seem remotely human to me."


Terrorists don't act human, they act like animals.

I do, however agree with you that muslium terrorists don't act remotely human.
I agree muslium terrorists blood lust and murdering is inhuman.

It is also seems inhuman to support the blood thirst, murderous muslin terrorists

[edit on 11/26/2009 by mrmonsoon]



posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 02:28 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 



the domestic defenders
so you're a taliban/al qaeda sympathiser?

The taliban that executed women for trying to get an education?
The same taliban that sends out suicide bombers , car bombs and mujihadeen , that maim , kill and displace the very same civilians that you now use , just like the shameless taliban , to hide behind in trying to spread your propaganda?



Had they not been there their gasoline would not have been stolen.

Had they not stolen it , they and the innocent civilians would not have been bombed


The only war I support is against the terrorists that wish to spread jihad. So taliban , muslim brotherhood and al qaeda watch out. If that is wrong I don't want to be right.

Nowhere did I state that killing innocent civilians was right , especially not for gasoline. While you are here trying to paint NATO's purpose in afghanistan as one to solely murder afghans , you don't see how silly that is. Then why have a rules of engagement that prohibits you from doing that same thing , also if they really were there solely to murder afghans , this war would already be over and you'd have allot more to squeal about.

It is not right that any innocent civilian should die in war but it has happened since the first armed conflicts between tribes , city states and nations. The fact that the taliban and al qaeda does not care about the lives of the very same people you say they are defending(domestic defenders;your words) should be an eye opener.

When I first heard of this incident on the news , the same msm that some here pick and choose what they will believe according to their bias , I felt sad for the people who lost their lives and hope they are in a better place. At the same time I'm not green when it comes to war and propaganda and using human shields is like russian roulette. So I will hold your "domestic defenders" (and doing a bad job at it I may say) equally responsible for the lives of their countrymen , whose lives they play with.



posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 03:14 PM
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NATO is not an Afghanistan based orginization. Actually NATO stole the fuel from the American Taxpayer at highly inflated costs.


Oh right, and One supposes you have proof of this?

Or are you just speculating?, or trying to mislead everyone.

America is part of NATO is it not, or have you forgotten this? So how was it stolen?



posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 04:23 PM
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reply to post by De La Valletta
 


None of those pitiful deflective defenses would actually help in a court of law where if you kill someone violently it doesn't matter why you did so unless it was legitimate self defense.

Now the story doesn't say that the Taliban was attacking the Germans does it?

In fact the story is about a German and his concious and him resigning over his concious.

So the efforts by the usual pro-Zionist suspects on this thread to make it as usual about their prejudice for Islamic Fundamentalists versus what the story is really about is well usual too.

The story isn't about me, the story is about a German Army Commander in fact the top German Army Commander resigning in protest over the fact that his orders led to the deaths of INNOCENT civilians.

I can see why many people would want to deflect away from that because it would not serve their cause of Muslim Attrition well if all of a sudden people developed a concious and stopped butchering innocent civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Its even more comical that it's the dreaded Germans acting morally as a military orginization as how many Israeli Army Commanders have resigned over the deaths of innocent men, women and children they have bombed?

That would be a number between 0 and 0.

Yes I can sure understand why you would want to talk about everything and anything except the basis of this story and the MORALS involved in it.

Good luck trying to fool Mother Nature my friend.



posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 04:30 PM
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reply to post by Laurauk
 


The War on Terror and the War in Afghanistan are not Wars declared by Congress but by Executive Decree, therefore they are unlawful, therefore all debt being incurred to provide things like Gasoline to the Nato Troops in the American Tax Payer's name and account are thefts from the American Tax Payer.

These Wars have resulted in 11 trillion dollars of debt to the American Tax Payer. Soon the interest alone will top 1 trillion dollars a year.

These Wars are in fact a war to enslave the American Tax Payer with debt by squandering and misusing over priced and inflated priced munitions and materials in a vague, objectiveless, illdefined war of Muslim attrition.

Americans will continue to be paying just the interest on these debts a century from now and be slaves to the bankers and the military industrial complex that incure these debts all the while.

All so a bunch of blood thirsty barbarians can exercize their blood lust through prejudice, hate and ignorance as opossed to spending a fraction of that money on education and economic development and the things that foster peace not war.

I sure find it funny that people who promote peace and don't condone murder are labelled as terrorists by the war mongerers who could justify the murder and dismemberment of a little 2 year old girl based on emotional transference by making someone elses crimes, anyone elses crimes justify that crime.

Amazing.



posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 04:35 PM
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Originally posted by mrmonsoon
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


"Terrorists are at least human beings some of the excuses people make to excuse bloodlust and wanton murder sure don't seem remotely human to me."


Terrorists don't act human, they act like animals.

I do, however agree with you that muslium terrorists don't act remotely human.
I agree muslium terrorists blood lust and murdering is inhuman.

It is also seems inhuman to support the blood thirst, murderous muslin terrorists

[edit on 11/26/2009 by mrmonsoon]


Actually my friend I feel truly sorry for anyone so decieved as to believe the statements that were just posted in your reply.

The truth is that the story is about a German Army Officer resigning over a matter of concious.

The truth is the story is about a Gernam Army Officer doing what no Israeli Army Officer is human or humane enough to ever do. The truth is the story is about a German Army Officer ashamed that his orders and actions resulted in the deaths of innocent men, women and children and deflective attempts to overlook those murders and to absolve those truly responsible who pulled the triggers and dropped the bombs and gave the orders is the most inhuman thing a being could do.

The story isn't about Muslim Terrorists.

The story is abotu Soldiers of Concious.



posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 04:39 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 



But you accused NATO, if One may add america is a part of, of stealing fromthe American Taxpayer.

Show proof please, I for one would like to see it.

And on another note, it is not just the American taxpayer whom they are stealing from it is evetyone else around the world, involved in this conflcit, just remember that.



posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 05:00 PM
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reply to post by Laurauk
 


NATO sure didn't get the gas from the tooth fairy. They got it from a private military contractor operating in Afghanistan that transports gasoline to NATO troops and the U.S. Congress picks up the tab at a cost of 240.00 per gallon!

It's not just theft it's grand theft, and it is the U.S. Taxpayer being robbed by the Congress who awards these contracts and pays such inflated rates to the private contractors who transport and deliver fuel into the war zone.

You will find some threads on that here on ATS if you aren't too busy engaged in the practice of condoning the murder of innocent men women and children to look like many of the off topic posters to this thread appear to be.




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