Climate change and Australian politics., page 1

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Topic started on 26-11-2009 @ 06:10 AM by Nventual

A picture says a thousand words. It's well known that people subconsciously cover their mouth while using deceit.

Unfortunately I'm very unlearned in the field of politics and I would appreciate it a lot of somebody could sum up what has happened in the last week in Australia relating to the Emissions Trading Scheme and the Liberal party.

To put it bluntly, a very high profile Australian politician, Malcolm Turnbull is so set on bringing in the ETS (or rather, the ET$) that his fellow Liberal backbenchers have resigned over his viewpoint on climate change. Malcolm believes that man is to blame, and that by introducing an Emissions Trading Scheme some how the Earth will be fine once again.

It doesn't take a genius to watch this man as he talks and see he is full of contempt and arrogance.

I'm surprised that there are no threads already on this matter. The story is breaking news in Australia and pretty much dividing Australians into either climate change believers and skeptics.

reply posted on 26-11-2009 @ 06:11 AM by Nventual

I apologise if my words are all over the place, I had a few to drink..

Here is a time-line..

TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 24, 2009
8am - Federal Cabinet meets and signs off on amendments to climate change deal.
9.30am - Changes approved by the Labor caucus.
10am - Shadow Cabinet approves deal which then goes to joint party room meeting.
11.30am - Prime Minister Kevin Rudd and Climate Change Minister Penny Wong hold press conference to outline the deal.
1.50pm - Former Coalition climate change spokesman Andrew Robb delivers Malcolm Turnbull's authority a blow by telling the party room meeting the emissions trading deal isn't good enough.
2pm - Party room meeting breaks for Question Time after going over expected four hour time.
3.45pm - Meeting resumes.
4.30pm - Turnbull declares Coalition support for an emissions trading deal, outraging critics within his own party and those who believed he did not have the numbers.
5.40pm - Maverick Liberal MP Wilson Tuckey threatens to call for a spill of the Liberal leadership unless Turnbull allows a secret ballot on emissions trading.
7pm - Party room meeting ends after Turnbull unilaterally declares victory for his climate change deal, despite opponents believing numbers were against him.
7.50pm - Former high-profile Howard government minister Kevin Andrews tips a leadership spill in coming days and says he could be a contender.
8pm - Turnbull forced to face his party room again.
8.15pm - Tuckey says Turnbull will be "lucky to survive the night".
8.30pm - Turnbull emerges from the meeting, having not faced a leadership challenge, and tells the media the coalition has agreed to a deal on Labor's carbon pollution reduction scheme.
He also declares that he's "the leader".

WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 25
7.20am - Turnbull repeats claims he's leader, and will be so at the next election. Prominent frontbenchers Joe Hockey and Tony Abbott rule out challenges.
8.15am - Turnbull says he has no intention of allowing the party to meet for a leadership spill on Thursday.
8.30am - Andrews again says he's prepared to challenge Turnbull for the leadership.
10.50am - A meeting over a vote to call a spill announced for 1pm, with Andrews the only contender for the top job.
1.20pm - Turnbull survives - 48 to 35 votes.

THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 26
5.20pm - Abbott resigns from shadow cabinet because he can "no longer support the opposition's policy" on the ETS.
5.38pm - Sophie Mirabella - opposition spokeswoman for early childhood education, childcare, status of women and youth - also resigns from the shadow ministry.
6.30pm - Liberal senators hold a party room meeting, at which frontbench senators Nick Minchin and Eric Abetz offer their resignations.
7.03pm - Michael Johnson resigns as opposition whip in the House, as does Senate whip Stephen Parry and frontbencher Tony Smith.
7.09pm - Turnbull declares he's still the leader of the coalition, despite a string of frontbench resignations. He says Australians expect their political leaders to take action on climate change.

FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 27
9.30am - Senate to resume debate on emissions trading scheme.
3.45pm - Senate expected to vote on emissions trading legislation.

reply posted on 26-11-2009 @ 06:23 AM by Nventual

Back ETS or face the sack, Malcolm Turnbull warns senior Liberals

Basically any person with half a mind wants this Turdball to resign, but judging by his demeanor (I'm no expert, but..) I can say he won't be quitting any time soon. He is certainly very happy about something which is yet to happen, which is shown by certain expressions on his face when he talks.

It will be very interesting to see how the next few days pan out. One has to wonder why this man is SO FOCUSED on bringing in this scheme - it certainly suggests a secondary objective (aka $$$$$).

[edit on 26/11/09 by Nventual]

reply posted on 26-11-2009 @ 07:05 AM by InfaRedMan

These are interesting times indeed for Australian Politics! Fascinating Stuff!

IRM

reply posted on 26-11-2009 @ 07:10 AM by Th0r

Turnbull is on his last legs. ETS will not pass!

reply posted on 26-11-2009 @ 07:19 AM by Nventual

You are right Th0r, for every person blaming humans for climate change there is 2 much more vengeful people to counter the argument. I think Turnbull is delusional that he can get what he wants, when in reality it's up to the public to decide.

reply posted on 26-11-2009 @ 07:21 AM by Dark Ghost

He does look very deceiving in that picture...evil. lol

I think he is putting on a show to appease those who disagree with the Liberal Party's stance on this issue. Climate Change has been very well marketed here in Australia and the Liberal Party has been, up until now, rather unified in their view that man-made commissions are not responsible for Climate Change.

In time, I believe this Bill will be passed. Why? Because TPTB want it to be passed. Of course, the minds of the general populace could be manipulated given the occurrence of some natural catastrophe...

[edit on 26/11/2009 by Dark Ghost]

reply posted on 26-11-2009 @ 07:30 AM by wycky

I think it will pass.
People have been starting to speak up, but it has changed no politicians mind. The last few days i have listen to 2GB and every time i listen all you here is people complaining about the ETS.

It was interesting to hear that they have pushed it back to next Monday instead of tomorrow, i'm not sure what difference this will make... maybe so TPTB can put their hands in a few more politicians pockets?

I wouldn't be surprised if there is some sort of protest after this passes next week.. then again i am surprised that the number of people i speak to about this look at me with a stupid look on their face, because they have no idea what is going on.

reply posted on 26-11-2009 @ 08:12 AM by redgy

Too much money will be lost by the mining industry if these issues are passed,
how many cutbacks for the workers will happen in these industries through lower wages or job losses,
how much more will these industries need to spend on upgrading old and failing equipment, they have already been hit hard in the past and now will even be hit harder.
Mining plays a big role in the economics of Australia still and one which I don't believe the goverment will do anything to try and destroy.

yes there needs to be big changes, but more I think by using alternate fuels, solar or wind generation, more public transport or other such green issue products which are safe or might make some little difference in regards to climate change.
The rebate system needs to be better improved for the use of these, affordable pricing implemented and less charges for such usage.
Not sure how the carbon tax would work but it does seem as though the lower income bracket might be the ones to suffer most.
I guess the rich will still be getting richer and still have the exemptions endorsed to achieve their goals.

reply posted on 26-11-2009 @ 08:42 AM by atlasastro

reply to post by Nventual

Turnball knows that the party will virtually become insignificant if it does not take notice of the Australian publics desire to see action on Climate Change.

The ETS budget will raise 4.5 billion per year from carbon permits.
In 2013 the Govt. Intends to invest 13 billion into jobs, industries, research and infrastructure that is green based.

Currently our Govt. Subsidies transport and Industry Fuel and electricity to the tune of 10 billion a year.
That is 10 billion in tax breaks on fuel and electricity that is carbon based.
If we come up with alternatives or reduce the rate of usage of fossil fuel and power that we now subsidize annually at 10 billion a year, I would cal that good economics.

We need to get the usage down, because taking away the breaks and subsidies increases costs which reduces demands and that translates into Job losses and businesses crashing.

By developing new technologies, industries and more efficient green fuels and energy we can try and shift the demand over, along with the jobs and businesses.
By selling the permits the Govt gets a kick start on funding without having to relax the existing subsidies in order to Fund new businesses, research, technology and Jobs.

Turnbull knows this.
The guy was a Merchant Banker.
He know the ETS is sound Policy.
He knows that the Liberals cannot come up with anything better that meets the populations need for action whilst generating Govt. income to fund initiatives of change whilst not crippling the existing economy by removing subsidies that exist on Fossil fuels now.
IMHO, that is what I have gotten from the last few months of Political shannanigans.

reply posted on 26-11-2009 @ 08:42 AM by yizzel

I doubt the ETS will save us from climate change, it's just another tax. It's fairly obvious that climate change is largely a natural occurrence, so how exactly will taxing us alter that?

The Libs are in a precarious position cause they know they can't win the next election if they keep changing their leaders. The problem is they can't allow the ETS to go through either, especially with their own amendments cause then they can't criticize the Govt when people start feeling the effects of this tax.
The opposition would love to go to an election and fight the Govt on this tax just as Labour did with the GST when it was first introduced.

reply posted on 26-11-2009 @ 08:50 AM by atlasastro

reply to post by Th0r

The ETS will pass.

Rudd will call and election if it does not and make it about the ETS.

The Liberal Party will be a shambles, and who knows what damage it will do to their standings in the parliment and the Senate.

Turnbull knows this, which was conveyed in his passionate address in Canberra this afternoon.

[edit on 26/11/09 by atlasastro]

reply posted on 26-11-2009 @ 10:49 AM by Nventual

Yes the ETS will pass, you can see it in Turdballs eyes! He is certainly confident.

I am however glad that many Australians are speaking against the EMS publicly.

reply posted on 2-12-2009 @ 09:38 AM by Th0r

Well it didn't pass and it's hardly surprising.

Guess we all will be waiting until July '10, even then nothing but a heavily revised ETS will pass. Thank you.

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