Christianity, Satans Greatest Deception

Interesting thread. So many topics covered in the responses it's difficult to follow.

I have a minor contirbution. Recently I finished reading the book "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn and am in the middle of "The Story of "B". Both novels delve into our modern cultures' mythologies and the origins. Quinn's contention is that the story of Genesis depicts, not only man's fall from grace, but the story of the Agricultural revolution as written from the perspective of the conquered nomadic herders.

Long story short:

Prior to the agricultural revolution, man lived in harmony with the Earth, taking what was provided naturally from the Tree of Life. When Man ate from the Tree of Knowledge (the knowledge of life and death; who/what lives and who dies) He placed himself on the same level as the gods. This was Man's fall from grace. The nomadic herders could see that man was in violation of the natural laws. The agricuturalists view life as somethng to be conquered, we destroy anything that threatens our farms and cattle. No other animal in nature seeks to eliminate his competition for food. Only Man does this. The story of Cain and Able is a reflection of the initial struggle between the old and the new; the destruction of the nomadic herder and a life lived in harmony with nature and God. It's interesting to note that the people who initiated the agricultural revolution were known as the Caucasians.

As the agricultural revolution continues some 10,000 yrs later, we are constantly bombarded with the mythologies of the agriculturalist conquerer. 'We are at war with nature, we must conquerer the planet and then after that, the universe itself.' This mentality will only bring about the destruction of our species, it is the law of nature which dictates this.

That's just a brief synopsis of the books I mentioned earlier. I highly recommend both books. The information contained is a real eye opener.

~Peace

reply to post by jinx880101


What you are is someone who is seeking the truth, and forgetting the lies of ego. That is precisely what this world needs. Even though we can make errors in judgment, this perspective is one which allows us to amend those errors. BTW, I added more to my previous post. If you don't mind, let me know what you think. I am always in need of feedback. I am trying to see the center, but I wisely know that what is true, that which is of a higher order, this cannot be contradicted by that which is false, that which is of a lower order. I want to be more and more aligned with truth, seeking peace. I have no need of being "right."

reply to post by iamcamouflage

There is probably a grand conspiracy response to the original post (I haven't read all posts in the lengthy thread) and a response from within the context of religion.
A grand conspiracist like David Icke would argue that satanism and religion are really tools from the elite, and the alleged opposition between the two is disinformation. The aim of satanism is to contact lower level beings from the 4th dimension and to keep the planet in a vibrational prison. The aim of religion is mind control for the masses, and financial scams that fund covert wars and industries. Many of the top people in religion are regarded as involved in satanism and techniques of mass hypnosis and auto-suggestion. There may be many good, saintly individuals in religion, but they would propably be good if they joined another faction - and even amongst Christians the various factions label each other as "satanic". As such religion is about in-group vs out-group thinking that devides humanity. Modern religions are themselves seen as collections of pagan sun and moon-god tropes, which have their roots firmly in occultism. Icke's chapter on religion in the "Biggest Secret" (Chapter 5: "Conquered by the Cross) expands on this. From this vantage point satanism and religion are the same, or at least two sides of one coin.
I'm just reading on Gnosticism, which had similar views. "Good" spirit became trapped in "evil" materialsim, and hence the Biblical God is an evil imposter, since He created the material prison.
Interestingly, Jesus was accused of being demonic by the pharisees, and his response to this was that He drives out demons, and a knigdom divided against itself cannot stand. Some would not consider this a satisfactory argumant, especially in the light of the argument that Satan can disguise himself as an "angel of light". The argument in any case seems historical unsound, since Christianity has survived (albeit in variously adulterated forms) although it was characterised by centuries of bloody, internal wars. Not only can a divided kingdom stand, internal variety provides a greater market place.
Bertrand Russel questioned the supposed moral supriority of Jesus (who curses a fig tree and kills a herd of pigs) in his essay "Why I am not a Christian". Jesus also say he comes to tear families asunder with a holy sword (Matt 10:34-39) and tells his followers to sell their garments to buy weapons (Luke 22:35:38). Coupled with the trope of blood sacrifice and Egyptian magic (using spit to heal the blind man), some readers have always considered the Christian God(s) as less than good, and akin to the very occult knowledge that modern churches forbid.
Some posters here cliamed that Satan cannot see the future, but the Bible fortells it. Hence, the Biblical divinity is divine and Satan is not. Where does the Bible fortell the future outside its own context? Where does it provably and clearly fortell anything after the end of its own narrative? According to Acts 16:16-18 Paul encounters a demon of divination, so according to the Bible Satan and his demons CAN FORTELL THE FUTURE.
The OP therefore asked a really old question concerning the problem of evil: if Satan is responsible for evil he becomes a demi-god, or even a superior God. If God is responsible for evil then he is not a good God, and cannot be trusted for moral guidance. The question will cause offense to some, but until now I have not seen a good argument which proves that the Bible was inspired by a good, just and loving God.
The issue is in no way made simpler by the idea that the devil can disguise himself as good and quote scripture (many occult rituals are Bible-based). Then we should judge every spirit by its fruit, but that just repeats the problem.

This discussion makes me think of this interesting take on the Adam and Eve story from Deism.com
www.deism.com...


A Deistic Satirical Take on The Garden of Eden

by David Bunch

ACT ONE

1. God created the world and two people named Adam and Eve, with whom he intended to populate the world.

2. One day, while God was not looking, the Devil came and captured Adam and Eve.

3. Adam and Eve were imprisoned in the Devil's garden called "Eden." God spoke to his eternal foe and asked for the return of his people. But the Devil, being fond of his new pets, refused.

4. God resolved to liberate Adam and Eve. Taking the shape of a serpent, God sneaked into the Devil's garden.

5. Sensing that Eve was the more insightful of the pair, God approached her.

6. God said to Eve, "If you will listen to me, I know a way for you to escape your imprisonment."

7. Eve said, "But Mr. Serpent, I do not wish to escape Eden. I like it here. This garden has everything I need."

8. God said, "You do not know what you are missing. Outside of this garden is an entire world, much larger than a mere garden. This world was created for your use. You will be much more satisfied there."

9. Eve said, "Really? I need to discuss this with Adam."

10. God said, "No, don't do that! Listen to me. In the far part of the garden there is a tree, called the Tree of Knowledge. Eat from this tree, and trick Adam into doing the same. Then you will know of the world at large, and your true mission in life."

11. And so Eve did as God asked. She and Adam ate from the Tree of Knowledge. They knew at once of the world outside and they were astonished to know how large and beautiful it was.

12. The Devil, sensing a disturbance, came into his garden to check on things. He was surprised to find that Adam and Eve had put on clothing and were building a boat out of fallen trees. He knew at once that they discovered the Tree of Knowledge.

13. The Devil was very cross. He spoke to Adam and Eve. "You think you are smart now! The world outside is not as grand as you think it is. In here - you are safe and taken care of. Out there - you must work and suffer."

14. Adam spoke. "We know of the world at large and our true potential. What you say may be true, but we do not want to live in a state of perpetual dependence. We are going to leave this garden and take our chances in the world."

15. Adam and Eve climbed into their boat and floated down river, exiting Eden.

16. The Devil began looking about his garden. By and by, he found a serpent that was not his own. The Devil spoke, "I see you now, God. I wish to confront you."

17. God resumed his natural shape. God and the Devil stood facing each other. God spoke. "Those people were my creation, and I intended to populate the world with them. You stole them from me and now I have stolen them back."

18. The Devil spoke. "You are clever God, but I am more clever still. Adam and Eve will populate the world, but once they have done this, I will find a way to turn their descendants into my servants."

19. God spoke. "You shall not succeed. I will place a part of myself inside of each new born child. This shall be called the "heart." The people of my world will never be separated from me - and they will never serve you."

20. "We shall see," said the Devil.



ACT TWO



1. Adam and Eve entered into the world. There they worked and suffered just as the Devil said they would, but even so they felt satisfaction. They knew they were doing that for which they were created.

2. Adam and Eve parented many children and these children parented many more. By and by, the world became full of the progeny of Adam and Eve. God was pleased.

3. The Devil was not pleased. The success of his rival irritated him greatly. The Devil tried repeatedly to enslave the progeny of Adam and Eve but he was not successful.

4. Thwarting the Devil with every attempt was the heart, that part of God that existed inside of every person.

5. The Devil thought to himself, "It appears that the only way I can enslave these people is if I somehow convince them to stop following their own hearts. I must be crafty."

6. The Devil hatched a crooked plan. He took the form of a spirit and spoke to an impressionable man named Abraham.

7. "Listen to me, Abraham, for I am the Lord God," said the Devil. "All of humanity is born separate from me. But I have chosen your people to be my special people. I will teach you how to reunite yourselves with me." Abraham felt a rush of pride at having been chosen and he agreed to do the Devil's bidding.

8. For the following months and years the Devil instructed Abraham and his people. He taught them elaborate and absurd rituals. This the Devil knew, would keep their minds focused on external things and thus keep them from looking inside - where the heart dwelt.

9. The people of Abraham performed their rituals with great diligence. They believed that by performing rituals, they were uniting themselves with God. When in fact, they were separating themselves from God.

10. The Devil was pleased with his success. He searched the world and found other men like Abraham. Soon the world was rife with ritualism, and divided into hostile tribes.



ACT THREE


1. God saw what the Devil was doing but he did not fret. For the heart, placed inside each person is not just the connection between God and humanity. The heart is also the source of inspiration and therefore creativity.

2. God knew that tribes who became ritualistic would also loose their ability to invent new things. These tribes would fall behind, and be conquered by other, more advanced tribes.

3. And so it came to pass that the Devil's primary weapon was ritualism and God's primary weapon was secularism. Some centuries, the Devil enjoyed the upper hand and some centuries God did.

4. The battle never did end. It goes on today much as it did in Abraham's time. The battle never will end either. It will go on and on, Ad Infinitum.

Originally posted by iamcamouflage
How can you be sure that the Bible was not inspired by Satan? How can you know that the Pagan religion was not the one true religion and then Satan came to earth as Jesus, inspired man to write the Bible to convince humanity to worship a false prophet?

Try not to use the Bible as a reference because, if the Bible was inspired by Satan then it could not be used as a source to prove that Satan did not inspire it.

Is it unreasonable to believe that Christianity is the devils greatest deception? And how could you know whether it was or not? If Satan is able to deceive, how can you know that you are not being deceived into believing and worshiping a religion that is actually inspired by Satan?

How can we be 100% sure that you are not the Anti-Christ, attempting to shy us away from the One True Faith by asking questions that no one can answer?

All of you who come up with these religious conspiracies all have the same problem; you can't seem to understand a basic concept of faith.

You can't ask questions when they can't be answered. It's stupid, and it won't go anywhere.

Everyone's asked the questions to themselves before, the majority of us go through that either during or after puberty. It's normal.

To actually think there's any validity to it would make you just as bad as the Christians.

I believe the similarity between Christianity and Satanism is mostly in the "do as thou willst" motto of Satanists. Of course Christians will vehemently deny it (as if their mere words mean anything), but the fact that they believe their sins were bought and paid for through a blood sacrifice is at least a subconscious suggestion that they can do whatever the # they want and receive absolution through their barbaric sacrifice, which clearly isn't a different enough idea from the days of throwing children into volcanos to "appease the gods."

reply to post by iamcamouflage


Some people here should do the research on how and why the Holy Bible was created, it's not all that it seems. Tony Bushby has written a few books that are well researched and footnoted that addresses the biblical era well. When researching a topic like this, never ask a Theologian, ask a Historian.

reply to post by Darth Lumina


That's awesome. That's one of the ways I was trying to portray the story in my earlier post!


I still hold that Satan is an idea. The Bible was compiled by man under this idea. Part of the idea is a small group holding powers over a larger group, and hindering their free will, and not teaching about RESPONSIBLE free will.

I never thought I would be saying something this bold, but I believe that true anarchism is the best way for mankind. True Anarchy involves, more than anything else, responsible free will. This is basically taking responsibility for your actions, inactions, and making actions and inactions that have no less than a neutral effect on others. Positive effect is desired, obviously (such as helping others).

By using religion, an idea of shirking responsibility to your faith is employed. A feeling of being 'better than others' is invoked. It's false sense of well being. When you do a selfless act, the feeling inside of you is a REAL sense of well being. Don't get it confused with the false sense you get from group feelings when you go to church and pray. There is a definite difference, much as there is a difference between endorphins released by exercise and drugs. Be conscious of what REALLY makes you feel good with no side effect of guilt, frustration, 'holier than thou', anger, jealousy, etc. Hold the door for a family at the buffet, and watch as they get the last table and you have to wait. Should you be angry? Nope. Waiting is a minor inconvenience for being able to let that family go ahead of you, and if they are grateful, that makes the feeling of what you did that much better. If you feel that you deserved to go first, that is Satan. If you feel 'cheated', that is Satan. If you get a warm feeling inside from watching the kid(s) smiling as they are grabbing their plate and attempting to load up on the cake and cookies first while you are still waiting and hungry, that is what you should recognize as your "God" feeling.

What I'm trying to say, is that like some others have pointed out, is that the Bible was (partially) written, and compiled, for Satan purposes. Evil purposes. A true religion would be teaching self reliability and self responsibility towards everything around them. This message is contained, but seems largely ignored, in the bible and by it's followers. This hypocrisy alone is incarnation if the idea: Satan. Lots more points, but I think it's best for a person to step back from their "religion" and see for themselves that evil abounds all around them. The trick is to hold to your ideas, while recognizing what goes against the true teachings. Don't be so ready for a group to put 'Bible Blinders' on you and tell you what to feel and be. If you can step away from your religion and truely view it from the outside and question it, and you return to it in comfort and having a bigger view of everything, then your religion must be true to you. That is good. If you lose your faith, then the next question should be "Where does my faith truly lay? What makes me feel good about being human and alive?"

I see this as an endless thread,there is no way to prove anything about God or Satian or weather they exist therfore it is redundant.To me anyway.

I do not belive in Gods and Devils allthough I keep an open mind.My logic is that with such a defective spicies that has been killing each other since the begening and total abuse of anything helpless(these things are proven everyday) then I belive in to things possiable.

1)If there is a God then I don't want to know it,I have read Revalations and if you don't worship it or you defy it you will be killed in a most horrable way.

2)It would seem to me to be more logical to think that Satian was in control,refer to #1.

No I have not read the Bible just another book written by man and the way man precives things.

I dont so much believe that Lucifer wrote the bible as corrupt men "ammended" it and warped it. There is a lot of crap interspersed in it but also a vast treasure of usefull METAPHYSICAL sections as well. The Psalms are blatant operations (spells). I wont go into the wisdom of JC. Can you say Adeptus Exemptus?

Regardless of who or what inspired the writings, it is written in such a way that you take away what you are capable of. The old "eye's to see and ears to hear" thing. Rather like Crowley in that regard.

OMG! ALISTER CROWLEY WROTE THE BIBLE!!!
(but back to seriousness).

I will preface this before i make my statement. Satan and Lucifer are ENTIRELY different beings. Satan is Qliphotic. Lucifer is not.

Many people get Lucifer all messed up with Satan. I have had several times that (while pondering the TREE) that Lucifer and Jesus could be one in the same. Jesus was born under the Morning Star Venus. Lucifer IS the Morning Star. I could go into some meditations but thats my own.

Lucifer wrote the bible? Hmm. Hermes Trismegistus wrote the EMERALD tablet (a code for everything).
Emerald+Venus+Morning Star+Green+Netzach+Maria Virgo. Hmm. Lots here to ponder.

We need to remember also that the Bible has ancient roots to Babylon and their precursors as well.

Interesting thread. sandf

reply to post by dusty1


well that wasnt very christian of you

reply to post by iamcamouflage


Well lol...let me put an end to OPs terribly thought out theory

"Satan came to earth as Jesus, inspired man to write the Bible to convince humanity to worship a false prophet? "

firstly..the bible is 66 books written by 40 different people..this includes the OT..the OT was written well before could have come as jesus lol... also it prophesied jesus' life as messiah..

also..satan making a false religion that completely agrees with the OT makes no sense...if you want to find satans false religion..look at Islam..hate to say it..but thats his work in the mainstream today

Most religions through out history basically say the same thing. To me all religion is the same language but with different dialects and like dialects it is sometimes impossible to understand each other. Not all religions have Satan involved, so I think your post is off.

If your logic is that Satan is in charge of the Bible, would that mean God is in charge of the “Devil’s Bible” and what side would be more cheesed off if they were really worshiping the other?

I think another fun question would be how bad is Satan. If Lucifer lost a war with God, would heavenly battles be like Earthly battles where the winner is good and the looser is evil.

Originally posted by iamcamouflage
How can you be sure that the Bible was not inspired by Satan? How can you know that the Pagan religion was not the one true religion and then Satan came to earth as Jesus, inspired man to write the Bible to convince humanity to worship a false prophet?

Try not to use the Bible as a reference because, if the Bible was inspired by Satan then it could not be used as a source to prove that Satan did not inspire it.

Is it unreasonable to believe that Christianity is the devils greatest deception? And how could you know whether it was or not? If Satan is able to deceive, how can you know that you are not being deceived into believing and worshiping a religion that is actually inspired by Satan?

you're closer than most...bravo

Christianity, along with all organized religion are anti-christ religions. They teach ignorance, acceptance and blind faith over wisdom, knowledge and understanding of god.

Matthew 9

13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

What is he quoting?

Hosea 6

5Therefore have I hewed them by the prophets; I have slain them by the words of my mouth: and thy judgments are as the light that goeth forth.

6For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

7But they like men have transgressed the covenant: there have they dealt treacherously against me.

Christians desire sacrifice rather than mercy. Burnt offerings more than knowledge of god and so forth.

Anyway, if you look at the signs of the anti-christ religon as defined by Christians. You will find that Christianity fulfills each and every one of them.

A man comes along, claims he is of god and Jesus(Paul). His writings make up nearly half the NT, but he quotes Jesus only once. Ding.

These writings having political appeal are turned into an organized religion - IN THE NAME OF CHRIST. Ding.

Through political power, it becomes a very powerful religion. Ding.

It then goes on to torture/kill anyone who doesn't covert to the religion. Ding.

It burns people in public, in order to spread fear among the masses and let them know what will happen if they don't convert. Ding!

It has waged war, death and destruction against anyone who stood in it's way. Ding!

It won't be happy or satisfied until the entire world is united in 1 world religion - it's religion. Ding!

Jesus says those who truly believe will be persecuted. But this is the religion that did the persecution. Ding!

Why don't Christians realize? Well, aside from it saying the majority of the world would be deceived, they don't notice because they look at every other religon as being anti-christ, but never really actually look at their own. For some reason, they seem to equate "after Jesus dies" with sometime after they were born. They look for it to happen, not realizing it already happened.

So, there isn't much argument. However, did you notice something there?

Did you notice that all the bad things you can say about religion, and all the bad things you can say about Christianity are actually called bad in the bible? Did you notice that these are actually the kinds of things Jesus is against? Did you notice that these are exactly the things warned about by the bible?

The smartest thing you can ever do is separate religion and religious people from god. Just because they claim to be of god, doesn't mean they are.

Check out Matthew 7.

20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

What those verses are saying is. Do not look at people for what they claim to be. Instead, look at what they do, and what they actions are(by their fruits).

That just because someone does things in the name of god, doesn't mean they really are. He says many people will do things in his name, but he will reject those who have done those things in sin(killing people and so forth, all the bad things religion does). Iniquity = sin btw, I had to look it up my first time.

The pagan thing is way off, and is basically backwards. You want to see a bunch of pagan symbols and such? Go to the Vatican.

Interesting theory. The only thing is that pagans had many gods so the "true religion" statement has a hole in it. religion was imposed on mankind to control the chaos of the old ways. The only thing about that is that religion is the cause of most wars through out time.

reply to post by jimmyjohen


The book of Enoch states that the original sin or "knowledge" as many like to refer to it is what led to the making of weapons and slaughter of millions.

Those are the main "watchers" or "fallen ones".

And Azâzêl taught men to make swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and made known to them the metals of the earth and the art of working them, and bracelets, and ornaments, and the use of antimony, and the beautifying of the eyelids, and all kinds of costly stones, and all
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colouring tinctures. And there arose much godlessness, and they committed fornication, and they
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were led astray, and became corrupt in all their ways. Semjâzâ taught enchantments, and root-cuttings, 'Armârôs the resolving of enchantments, Barâqîjâl (taught) astrology, Kôkabêl the constellations, Êzêqêêl the knowledge of the clouds, Araqiêl the signs of the earth, Shamsiêl the signs of the sun, and Sariêl the course of the moon. And as men perished, they cried, and their cry went up to heaven...

These were the sins before Noah's time.
To elaborate further:

And behold the names of those angels [and these are their names: the first of them is Samjâzâ, the second Artâqîfâ, and the third Arm$ecirc;n, the fourth Kôkabêl, the fifth Tûrâêl, the sixth Rûmjâl, the seventh Dânjâl, the eighth Nêqâêl, the ninth Barâqêl, the tenth Azâzêl, the eleventh Armârôs, the twelfth Batarjâl, the thirteenth Busasêjal, the fourteenth Hanânêl, the fifteenth Tûrêl, and the sixteenth Sîmâpêsîêl, the seventeenth Jetrêl, the eighteenth Tûmêêl, the nineteenth Tûrêl,
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the twentieth Rûmâêl, the twenty-first Azâzêl. And these are the chiefs of their angels and their names, and their chief ones over hundreds and over fifties and over tens].

(hundred and fifties and tens....six hundred sixty six perhaps?These are the number of names)

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The name of the first Jeqôn: that is, the one who led astray [all] the sons of God, and brought them
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down to the earth, and led them astray through the daughters of men. And the second was named Asbeêl: he imparted to the holy sons of God evil counsel, and led them astray so that they defiled
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their bodies with the daughters of men. And the third was named Gâdreêl: he it is who showed the children of men all the blows of death, and he led astray Eve, and showed [the weapons of death to the sons of men] the shield and the coat of mail, and the sword for battle, and all the weapons
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of death to the children of men. And from his hand they have proceeded against those who dwell
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on the earth from that day and for evermore. And the fourth was named Pênêmûe: he taught the
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children of men the bitter and the sweet, and he taught them all the secrets of their wisdom. And he instructed mankind in writing with ink and paper, and thereby many sinned from eternity to
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eternity and until this day. For men were not created for such a purpose, to give confirmation
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to their good faith with pen and ink. For men were created exactly like the angels, to the intent that they should continue pure and righteous, and death, which destroys everything, could not have taken hold of them, but through this their knowledge they are perishing, and through this power
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it is consuming me. And the fifth was named Kâsdejâ: this is he who showed the children of men all the wicked smitings of spirits and demons, and the smitings of the embryo in the womb, that it may pass away, and [the smitings of the soul] the bites of the serpent, and the smitings
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which befall through the noontide heat, the son of the serpent named Tabâ'et. And this is the task of Kâsbeêl, the chief of the oath which he showed to the holy ones when he dwelt high
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above in glory, and its name is Bîqâ. This (angel) requested Michael to show him the hidden name, that he might enunciate it in the oath, so that those might quake before that name and oath who
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revealed all that was in secret to the children of men

So, there you go.

reply to post by iamcamouflage


You are a very sick person. May God have mercy on your soul.

The fool has said, there is no God. Then comes death, then JUDGEMENT.





[edit on 26-11-2009 by randyvs]

False Christianity are those who Believe in the Bible except not believe Christ is the Son of God but use it as a platform to form another apostate religions.

The Catholics praise Mary and Baby Jesus too much as well as the Saints, they forget the rest of the Bible it seems.

Jehovah Witesses like the name states are not witnesses of Christ, they think Christ is the Angel Michael like some recarnation or something and they deny the Holy Spirit.

Islam denies Jesus as Christ even if they try to convince you they believe in Jesus along with Old Testament laws that should have been done away with.

The list goes on but they all have one thing in common which is to secretly not tell you they deny the Christ so they can swindle you into their cult.