In the book of Enoch it describes more accurately what that "knowledge" was that was forbidden. I'll tell you this, it leads to sin.
Christianity, Satans Greatest Deception, page 3
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reply posted on 26-11-2009 @ 03:33 AM by jimmyjohen
reply to post by Agree2Disagree
A book called Enoch is telling you what knowledge is and it leads to sin. Please explain because that makes no sense to me.
A book called Enoch is telling you what knowledge is and it leads to sin. Please explain because that makes no sense to me.
reply posted on 26-11-2009 @ 04:01 AM by ThyKingdomCome
Christianity IS Satan's greatest deception, but not in the way you think.
Organized Christianity has very little in common with the teachings of the BIBLE. If you were trapped on a desert isle, knew nothing about Christianity and had nothing but a King James Bible, in a few years of reading and understanding the basic tenets, history, and traditions of JUDAISM AND CHRISTIANITY, you would have a system of beliefs COMPLETELY OPPOSITE from what is practiced in today's churches.
As Christ said, SATAN has used MAN's PAGAN TRADITIONS (inspired by the 'god of this world,' Satan) to dilute and make impotent the organized churches we see today (Matt 15:9/Mark 7:7).
As Christ also said, there is a true remnant church which follows the Bible, has the faith of Jesus and keeps the commandments of God -- that group will be the first fruits at Christ's Return as King of Kings and Lord of Lords (Rev 14:12/Rev 12:17).
Satan's infiltration and great deception of the churches was part of God's plan all along, but God will have all saved in His own time and chosen order.
www.ucg.org...
Organized Christianity has very little in common with the teachings of the BIBLE. If you were trapped on a desert isle, knew nothing about Christianity and had nothing but a King James Bible, in a few years of reading and understanding the basic tenets, history, and traditions of JUDAISM AND CHRISTIANITY, you would have a system of beliefs COMPLETELY OPPOSITE from what is practiced in today's churches.
As Christ said, SATAN has used MAN's PAGAN TRADITIONS (inspired by the 'god of this world,' Satan) to dilute and make impotent the organized churches we see today (Matt 15:9/Mark 7:7).
As Christ also said, there is a true remnant church which follows the Bible, has the faith of Jesus and keeps the commandments of God -- that group will be the first fruits at Christ's Return as King of Kings and Lord of Lords (Rev 14:12/Rev 12:17).
Satan's infiltration and great deception of the churches was part of God's plan all along, but God will have all saved in His own time and chosen order.
www.ucg.org...
reply posted on 26-11-2009 @ 04:15 AM by iamcamouflage
reply to post by Agree2Disagree
I dont think these statements are very accurate. So if a book makes me feel like i am doing good then it is inspired by holiness? So it just comes down to what each individual thinks and feels?
A couple weeks ago Goldman Sachs CEO, Lloyd Blankfein, said that wall street is doing gods work.
What if someone interprets the Bible or Koran incorrectly and commits evil acts based on how they feel? I could read passages from the Bible or Koran and find justification to commit acts of good or evil. It is difficult to find definitive answers that are written in prose.
I'm sorry but many issues regarding good and evil are not black and white. There is a lot of gray area when it comes to good and evil. Is stealing to feed your family wrong or evil? This "Christian" nation of the United States has a majority that approves of capital punishment, a majority that runs concurrent with Christian beliefs. But I thought murder was wrong and evil??? There are many Christians that support war and other crimes.
Are issues of good and evil simply black and white or should context be considered.
According to the Bible, god murdered innocent first born Egyptian sons, to prove a point to the Egyptian rulers? Was this an act of good or evil?
[edit on 26-11-2009 by iamcamouflage]
It still comes down to "know a good tree by its fruit and a bad tree by its fruit".
If the Koran teaches death and destruction then obviously it is not holy word. If it makes you feel tingly inside and inspires you to turn from sin then it is inspired by holiness.
It doesn't boil down to what the books say. It all comes down to what they produce(man's actions).
I dont think these statements are very accurate. So if a book makes me feel like i am doing good then it is inspired by holiness? So it just comes down to what each individual thinks and feels?
A couple weeks ago Goldman Sachs CEO, Lloyd Blankfein, said that wall street is doing gods work.
What if someone interprets the Bible or Koran incorrectly and commits evil acts based on how they feel? I could read passages from the Bible or Koran and find justification to commit acts of good or evil. It is difficult to find definitive answers that are written in prose.
I'm sorry but many issues regarding good and evil are not black and white. There is a lot of gray area when it comes to good and evil. Is stealing to feed your family wrong or evil? This "Christian" nation of the United States has a majority that approves of capital punishment, a majority that runs concurrent with Christian beliefs. But I thought murder was wrong and evil??? There are many Christians that support war and other crimes.
Are issues of good and evil simply black and white or should context be considered.
According to the Bible, god murdered innocent first born Egyptian sons, to prove a point to the Egyptian rulers? Was this an act of good or evil?
[edit on 26-11-2009 by iamcamouflage]
reply posted on 26-11-2009 @ 05:30 AM by iamcamouflage
reply to post by ProphetARJYAN
I have always found it strange that many Christians think that there religion was the first. Religion and a belief in deities came before Christianity, yet these religions are silly and impossible to believe, yet change the names and places around and all of a sudden its the word of god. There were many before and there is evidence of old pagan beliefs being changed into more modern Christian beliefs. Its very interesting that many of the pagan celebrations just happen to coincide with current Christian holidays.
Interesting theory, i've always found religious texts to be questionable myself. Especially when people do nothing but blindly believe in a book that was written many many years ago.
I think core paganism was the (or close to) the original religion, simply because a lot, and i mean a hell of a lot of religions have adopted paganism into thier own.
I have always found it strange that many Christians think that there religion was the first. Religion and a belief in deities came before Christianity, yet these religions are silly and impossible to believe, yet change the names and places around and all of a sudden its the word of god. There were many before and there is evidence of old pagan beliefs being changed into more modern Christian beliefs. Its very interesting that many of the pagan celebrations just happen to coincide with current Christian holidays.
reply posted on 26-11-2009 @ 05:40 AM by iamcamouflage
reply to post by Agree2Disagree
Are you aware of the many atrocities that have been committed in the name of the bible, god and religion? If it doesnt matter what the books say and only the impact on the actions of men, then I would argue that the bible was written by the devil and is an evil book.
I do not believe that and I feel that the content of a book or beliefs is MUCH, MUCH more important than the actions it creates.
It doesn't boil down to what the books say. It all comes down to what they produce(man's actions).
Are you aware of the many atrocities that have been committed in the name of the bible, god and religion? If it doesnt matter what the books say and only the impact on the actions of men, then I would argue that the bible was written by the devil and is an evil book.
I do not believe that and I feel that the content of a book or beliefs is MUCH, MUCH more important than the actions it creates.
reply posted on 26-11-2009 @ 05:54 AM by orwellianunenlightenment
reply to post by iamcamouflage
You are absolutely right. Many Christians do live in a bubble reality, one in which they falsify anything that disagrees with currently held conceptions. Many atheists do live in a bubble reality, one in which they falsify anything that disagrees with currently held conceptions. Many ballerinas do live in a bubble reality, one in which they falsify anything that disagrees with currently held conceptions. Everyone lives in a bubble reality, but some try to exert their wills to conceive of a bigger bubble, one that is more reflective of the whole. You see, we often desire to be right, and this causes angles to emerge; we end up trying to prove that our little slice of reality is the whole, and that causes this system of slavery and war, which brings me to the following:
It was brought up how a certain knowledge brings forth evil, and it does. This knowledge could more accurately be described as unwavering certainty. It sees the drama of life, and this "sight" necessitates that others be characters in the drama. One defines himself or herself as being good in relation to another being evil. The evil is guilty as charged, and it rampages throughout society, but the good gave it its power. The ego masqueraded as the divine, and people exerted absolute judgments on others, accusations if you will. What is another name for "the accuser?" You got it, Satan.
Ultimately, the philosophy in which we view life must be judged according to the trees that spring forth from its seeds. I have looked at many seeds, and I have determined that the necessitated view of difference of actual souls, rather than viewing these souls as CURRENTLY being animated by competing spirits, is what keeps the cycle of slavery and war and domination and manipulation going. In my view, and I have honestly tried to stretch that view, Jesus as depicted in the Bible got all of this. However, I believe that the Old Testament view was one in which Christ tried to destroy, although many Christians cling to it. Just the way I see things. Anybody is free to take it or leave it, but I do think I have insight to add.
You are absolutely right. Many Christians do live in a bubble reality, one in which they falsify anything that disagrees with currently held conceptions. Many atheists do live in a bubble reality, one in which they falsify anything that disagrees with currently held conceptions. Many ballerinas do live in a bubble reality, one in which they falsify anything that disagrees with currently held conceptions. Everyone lives in a bubble reality, but some try to exert their wills to conceive of a bigger bubble, one that is more reflective of the whole. You see, we often desire to be right, and this causes angles to emerge; we end up trying to prove that our little slice of reality is the whole, and that causes this system of slavery and war, which brings me to the following:
It was brought up how a certain knowledge brings forth evil, and it does. This knowledge could more accurately be described as unwavering certainty. It sees the drama of life, and this "sight" necessitates that others be characters in the drama. One defines himself or herself as being good in relation to another being evil. The evil is guilty as charged, and it rampages throughout society, but the good gave it its power. The ego masqueraded as the divine, and people exerted absolute judgments on others, accusations if you will. What is another name for "the accuser?" You got it, Satan.
Ultimately, the philosophy in which we view life must be judged according to the trees that spring forth from its seeds. I have looked at many seeds, and I have determined that the necessitated view of difference of actual souls, rather than viewing these souls as CURRENTLY being animated by competing spirits, is what keeps the cycle of slavery and war and domination and manipulation going. In my view, and I have honestly tried to stretch that view, Jesus as depicted in the Bible got all of this. However, I believe that the Old Testament view was one in which Christ tried to destroy, although many Christians cling to it. Just the way I see things. Anybody is free to take it or leave it, but I do think I have insight to add.
reply posted on 26-11-2009 @ 06:02 AM by Dookzor
Originally posted by dusty1
reply to post by iamcamouflage
I'm glad you got the Billy Madison referrence. I thought it was funny and meant no insult to you personally. You are an unbeliever, and you are goading believers into a debate about the Bible, without allowing them to use the Bible. That is why I used the quote.
Why is the OP seen as "goading"? He was merely trying to discuss a possibility, the fact that he doesn't believe doesn't factor into the equation and is moot.
The obtuse circular logic of some people astounds me.
reply posted on 26-11-2009 @ 06:12 AM by orwellianunenlightenment
reply to post by iamcamouflage
I think we live in a selfish age, one in which the beast masquerades as the divine, the age of the Beast or Satan if you will. Every religion and every government and most people are going to reek of this self-destructive philosophy, in my view. We have been animated meat puppets of mimicry. We certainly don't like being shunned, so we go with the flow, even though the flow seems to be the fall of man, in my view.
Listen, I think man has been too addicted to acting the character in dramas. And I mean man specifically. I think religion and woman have been too addicted to weaving dramas, as it gives them power, while simultaneously giving the "character" the illusion thereof.
This is obviously not exactly how history happened, but it does illustrate a story reflective of the drama, in my view. The way I see it, woman is afraid of man seeing her, or entering her space. She fears him, his domination. Therefore, she weaves webs of drama that necessitate that he be a character, one who leads the drama to its conclusion, one who ends the cycle. This would actually bring definition to the author of the drama, so you can judge an author by the drama he or she creates. Religion does the same thing. Man has been lazy in trying to woo a woman, so he can often merely offer things in exchange for companionship. This allows woman total passive power. Today, many women can properly be seen as androgynous, displaying both male and female characteristics. Many men can be seen as neutered, as a woman wants to have the perks of male and female, but she still wants the man to be different. That leaves him a zero to be, if he is not strong enough to go against the whims of society. This is a dynamic that cannot be sustained, so we either become all of us androgynous, women become masculine and men become feminine, or things go back to the way they were 50 years ago. As it stands now, the Whore of Babylon is giddily riding on a beast. I know this might sound sexist to some or many of you, but I do not blame women or men. I think it was inevitable, as it is woven into our collective drama. However, where do we go from here?
I think we live in a selfish age, one in which the beast masquerades as the divine, the age of the Beast or Satan if you will. Every religion and every government and most people are going to reek of this self-destructive philosophy, in my view. We have been animated meat puppets of mimicry. We certainly don't like being shunned, so we go with the flow, even though the flow seems to be the fall of man, in my view.
Listen, I think man has been too addicted to acting the character in dramas. And I mean man specifically. I think religion and woman have been too addicted to weaving dramas, as it gives them power, while simultaneously giving the "character" the illusion thereof.
This is obviously not exactly how history happened, but it does illustrate a story reflective of the drama, in my view. The way I see it, woman is afraid of man seeing her, or entering her space. She fears him, his domination. Therefore, she weaves webs of drama that necessitate that he be a character, one who leads the drama to its conclusion, one who ends the cycle. This would actually bring definition to the author of the drama, so you can judge an author by the drama he or she creates. Religion does the same thing. Man has been lazy in trying to woo a woman, so he can often merely offer things in exchange for companionship. This allows woman total passive power. Today, many women can properly be seen as androgynous, displaying both male and female characteristics. Many men can be seen as neutered, as a woman wants to have the perks of male and female, but she still wants the man to be different. That leaves him a zero to be, if he is not strong enough to go against the whims of society. This is a dynamic that cannot be sustained, so we either become all of us androgynous, women become masculine and men become feminine, or things go back to the way they were 50 years ago. As it stands now, the Whore of Babylon is giddily riding on a beast. I know this might sound sexist to some or many of you, but I do not blame women or men. I think it was inevitable, as it is woven into our collective drama. However, where do we go from here?
reply posted on 26-11-2009 @ 06:14 AM by TarzanBeta
Originally posted by Dookzor
Originally posted by dusty1
reply to post by iamcamouflage
I'm glad you got the Billy Madison referrence. I thought it was funny and meant no insult to you personally. You are an unbeliever, and you are goading believers into a debate about the Bible, without allowing them to use the Bible. That is why I used the quote.
Why is the OP seen as "goading"? He was merely trying to discuss a possibility, the fact that he doesn't believe doesn't factor into the equation and is moot.
The obtuse circular logic of some people astounds me.
1+1 = 3 is not a possibility.
If the logic is not there, then it is not a possibility.
The discussion is pointless. Satan is REFERRED TO IN THE BIBLE. Therefore, the OP is saying that Satan, who we know BECAUSE of the Bible, actually tricked everyone into believing the Bible - and beyond that - into believing that God is good and that he, himself, is the whole reason why humanity is completely screwed AND, furthermore, that he himself will get chucked into the lake of fire and be destroyed forever, by God, the winner. Hmm. Oh, and Satan attempts to deceive us by telling us He wrote the book that calls him the deceiver.
Makes perfect sense. So, then, Oh so wonderful and smart OP and fellow poster who seems to stick up for retardation -- who created "Satan" and in that case who is God? Oh wait... the word SATAN means "the Accuser". So, let's just think of entities outside of titles. Oh wait. We can't. God as an entity is merely spiritual, but, our beloved Satan, which wrote the deceiving Bible (of course), can take on the form of a lovely, bright and shining morning star. So, what do we name that star? Or, no, we use the OP's logic and say that the STAR is God and that the Great Spirit is Satan... you know what, I could keep going for a very, very long time. In fact, I would have to rewrite the entire Bible just to show you how it would have to be written to be written by Satan.
And, even beyond that simple, oh-so-simple third grade logic, we can realize also that the Bible has a neat little tidbit of information that is oh-so-helpful in determining the strength of an entity. "A house divided against itself cannot stand." Well, if Satan wrote the Bible and the Bible is a house, it's ALL OVER THE FLOOR, because Satan ripped himself a new asshole in that last book called Revelations.
I apologize if I seem a little agitated, but we should be stupid about things that we can't figure out easily... not something so pathetically simple.
reply posted on 26-11-2009 @ 06:15 AM by Dookzor
reply to post by orwellianunenlightenment
This post made more sense to me than anything I've read on the subject to date. You articulated my thoughts on the subject better than I ever could, so thanks!
This post made more sense to me than anything I've read on the subject to date. You articulated my thoughts on the subject better than I ever could, so thanks!
reply posted on 26-11-2009 @ 06:21 AM by Dookzor
reply to post by TarzanBeta
More circular logic.
If "Satan" truely wanted to subvert the attentions of man away from the true "God", wouldn't it be prudent to falsify accounts and misrepresent himself? The way I see it, the best way to manipulate a situation is to do it from a standpoint where your meddlings will remain undetected.
What better way to do that then to give those inclined to believe in "God" and "Satan" a false view of what those entities are?
I'd also like to add that I am completely undecided as to the existence of God and I am not coming at this discussion from a non-believers standpoint. My personal journey demands that I try to see both sides of the argument and in this case, feel many believers are being unecessarily defensive.
Edit: I'd also like to add that for a "Christian", you're remarkably unforgiving and abrasive, TarzanBeta.
[edit on 26-11-2009 by Dookzor]
More circular logic.
If "Satan" truely wanted to subvert the attentions of man away from the true "God", wouldn't it be prudent to falsify accounts and misrepresent himself? The way I see it, the best way to manipulate a situation is to do it from a standpoint where your meddlings will remain undetected.
What better way to do that then to give those inclined to believe in "God" and "Satan" a false view of what those entities are?
I'd also like to add that I am completely undecided as to the existence of God and I am not coming at this discussion from a non-believers standpoint. My personal journey demands that I try to see both sides of the argument and in this case, feel many believers are being unecessarily defensive.
Edit: I'd also like to add that for a "Christian", you're remarkably unforgiving and abrasive, TarzanBeta.
[edit on 26-11-2009 by Dookzor]
reply posted on 26-11-2009 @ 06:27 AM by Psyagra
S&F
Nice one OP ... I love these threads also and its always funny to see how fundamentalist Christians balk at the though of questioning the Bible or its origin ... no wonder they live in the dark and live their lives in fear of retribution of they slip up in the slightest.
I dare any Christian to go take a look-see here ...
Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian
... and then poke around the site for a spell and see if the god of the Bible is so loving and kind. He's a scary, jealous, vengeful, hateful and selfish entity ... certainly not the creator of all that is.
The anger you will feel when reading this stuff will not be at us who have seen the light ... it will be at yourself and those who you've allowed to lie to you for so long.
Of course - the best thing you can do is to stop sucking in what is literally sold to you from the pulpits of organized religion and do you OWN research.
Nice one OP ... I love these threads also and its always funny to see how fundamentalist Christians balk at the though of questioning the Bible or its origin ... no wonder they live in the dark and live their lives in fear of retribution of they slip up in the slightest.
I dare any Christian to go take a look-see here ...
Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian
... and then poke around the site for a spell and see if the god of the Bible is so loving and kind. He's a scary, jealous, vengeful, hateful and selfish entity ... certainly not the creator of all that is.
The anger you will feel when reading this stuff will not be at us who have seen the light ... it will be at yourself and those who you've allowed to lie to you for so long.
Of course - the best thing you can do is to stop sucking in what is literally sold to you from the pulpits of organized religion and do you OWN research.
reply posted on 26-11-2009 @ 06:27 AM by TarzanBeta
Originally posted by iamcamouflage
reply to post by Agree2Disagree
It doesn't boil down to what the books say. It all comes down to what they produce(man's actions).
Are you aware of the many atrocities that have been committed in the name of the bible, god and religion? If it doesnt matter what the books say and only the impact on the actions of men, then I would argue that the bible was written by the devil and is an evil book.
I do not believe that and I feel that the content of a book or beliefs is MUCH, MUCH more important than the actions it creates.
You are not well learned and you certainly haven't been through any kind of real hell. This much is easy to see.
What is not easy to see is your intention. Do you really have questions? IF you posed these questions in a format that suggested you desire knowledge and wisdom, you might be better helped. But, you are using the same third-grade-logic that every satanist in this world uses.
Let me tell you about Satan's greatest deception. He convinced himself that he was a good liar. That is it.
I'm sorry that so many people are so blind, but all of you who are anti-God, no matter how intelligent you usually are, you're completely transparent when y'all attempt to break God down.
If you do not believe, FINE. If you are interested, ask questions or give real answers. There are many interpretations of many facets of the Bible, but atleast most interpretations have SOMEWHAT of a valid reason for the interpretation to exist.
This is simply borderline offensive.
How many times must you idiots be told -- ANY THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS OF NUMBERS OF THINGS can be used as an excuse to DO SOMETHING. So, when you refer to wars and crusades, remember, PEOPLE did it. PEOPLE are the constant. Excuses are the variables. The variables are just a means by which the constant may achieve a different result.
Here's some KINDERGARTEN LOGIC for you SMART kids.
Let's say that the constant H = human.
Let's say that the variable x = Christianity as an excuse.
Let's say that the variable y = Islam as an excuse.
Let's say that the variable z = Grand Theft Auto as an excuse.
H+x = the crusades, wars, and killings
H+y = suicide bombings
H+z = school shootings
Notice..........how the constant is H. And notice how when the variable represents a multitude of different kinds of excuses, that the result is changed, except ALL these results have a thing in common. DEATH. Hm. What else is a constant here?
Oh... wait, I get it. So, basically H = Death. HUMANS = death. People.
We are the screw ups. Leave God be.
reply posted on 26-11-2009 @ 06:34 AM by TarzanBeta
Originally posted by Dookzor
reply to post by TarzanBeta
More circular logic.
If "Satan" truely wanted to subvert the attentions of man away from the true "God", wouldn't it be prudent to falsify accounts and misrepresent himself? The way I see it, the best way to manipulate a situation is to do it from a standpoint where your meddlings will remain undetected.
What better way to do that then to give those inclined to believe in "God" and "Satan" a false view of what those entities are?
I'd also like to add that I am completely undecided as to the existence of God and I am not coming at this discussion from a non-believers standpoint. My personal journey demands that I try to see both sides of the argument and in this case, feel many believers are being unecessarily defensive.
Edit: I'd also like to add that for a "Christian", you're remarkably unforgiving and abrasive, TarzanBeta.
[edit on 26-11-2009 by Dookzor]
I'm extremely abrasive as a personality. I am wholly forgiving, but that doesn't mean that I have a high tolerance for stupidity. I'd give my heart to you regardless of how smart you are.
However, if you decide you want to have a discussion, think of the question for longer than 5 seconds before you post it.
Exactly, concerning all the circular logic. That's my -whole- point.
No, it is a horrible tactic, an incredibly foolish one by even one of y'all's standards, to write a book demonizing yourself. There are certainly -people- who have nothing to lose that might do something like that, but by claiming that all the intelligence that was put into creating us came from an emo-kid? Whatever?
Honesty prevails over useless "logic". Later.
What if all the major religions started out with the same story and it slowly diverged from there
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