Dark Power: Scientists suspect aliens using Black Hole

I think it could be possible;
If gravity has no effect on UFO's here on earth;
then the same thing would be true with a blackhole;

but i dont think UFO's use blackhole's to travel;

I think the UFO's use "Interdimensional Travel" possibly in the 7th dimension;

for example;
a 2d being can only travel within 2d; but if it goes into 3d it can jump to any point in the 2d world;

the same thing would apply with 3d beings; if we go into the 7th dimension we would be able to jump to any point in the 3d world and to any timeline also;

Using "Interdimensional Travel" you could travel to any point in the universe, and to any timeline; instantly;

Like in UFO videos where people think the UFO goes so fast it dissappears so it must be traveling faster than the speed of light or whatever; when in reality it probably isnt even going that fast at all and is just jumping into another dimension that is not visible to us

we would also be able to use it on earth as "Teleportation Pads" at different points throughout cities around the world, like bus stops and subway stations;

Or people could just have one in every home, work place, shopping center, etc



[edit on 26-11-2009 by DjSharperimage]

Originally posted by DjSharperimage
but i dont think UFO's use blackhole's to travel;

I do not either. I think ufos, use the same sort of tech described by al bielek in philedelphia experiment or there abouts.

they probably just tune out of our reality, and outside our 3d universe are able to travel those distances. i have seen nasa scientists, talk about faster than light space travel, and they already know this.

I think the reason why ufos probably do not use black holes, is that they do not know where these things are going. Why would you go in to something like a black hole, and not know where your going, if you want to come back.

This entire theory is predicated on the particle/Big bang Theory of the Universe.

I am certainly not a creationist, well not the classically uneducated dogmatic type, but read Tesla, and imagine for a mere quick sec that if quantum theory is possible (i mean it actually is possible and not possible at the same time, actually...or not), then the universe is also composed solely of a scalar wave form created instantaneously from an electronic field of plasma that originates from ?????(or then again maybe its not, depending on where you are in the quantum field at that time).

Think outside the octahedron.

reply to post by Silicis n Volvo


I think your post depends on an absolute that has no supporting evidence.

We have not ruled out ET life on nearby stars. In fact, we are devising new ways to look for biological and molecular signatures that will tell us where life may exist.

So in theory, this would work for life in nearby star systems especially if they have found signatures for life like we are currently doing. Then they would know life is on earth.

They mention detecting these gravitational waves on earth, however we currently dont have any detection stations built ,instead they are focusing on low frequency waves .

The chance of any scientific proramme to detect these blackhole ships being built is never going to happen , public funding wont be spent on something to detect UFO's

the scientific community barely get funding to search for things that people do believe in , like higgs boson ! it hasnt been proven to exist either and yet we have spent billions looking for it !
not everyone is happy we spent money on that either

So its very unlikely we will get funding to spend money chasing ufo's that also havent been proven to exist.

Yet its very funny that we have spent money looking for higgs boson and its just as elusive as a UFO !

hell maybe when we do find the higgs we will find ufo's right along side it !

How does squeezing/compressing dark matter annihilate it?

We don't even know what dark matter is yet? how can we know how it reacts?

reply to post by Outrageo


A few problems have overlooked.
How do you stop the freakin' thing? As you approach the speed of light, the mass of the whole contraption approaches infinity according to the formula M'=SQR 1-v^2/c^2, where M' is the mass of the moving object, v is the velocity and c is the speed of light, 3X10^8 m/sec. So if your black hole is only one solar mass (2X10^30 kg) and you are dusting along at 99.9% of c, then just the mass of the black hole part of the craft would be approaching infinity.Although you might have enough energy to accelerate to 2.997 meters/second in a couple of days, to stop it might take millenia. Also the length of everything moving that fast will contract according to Lorentz transformation rules.Your bloodflow is going to be very problematic since every artery and vein will contract. The blood cells too, but flows depend on exponents of the radius and linearly reducing everything doesn't necessarily work.
You also need to keep from being fried by the propelling radiation, which must be Hawking radiation, so the temperature will be hc^3/8piGMksubb.
And a bad radiation sickness problem. awking's original calculation requires talking about quantum particles in which the wavelength becomes shorter than the Planck length near the black hole horizon. It is due to the peculiar behavior near a gravitational horizon where time stops as measured from far away. A particle emitted from a black hole with a finite frequency, if traced back to the horizon, must have had an infinite frequency there and a trans-Planckian wavelength. Infinite frequency leads to infinite energy since E=hv, where E is energy, h is Planck's constant and v is frequency. Anything above about 1 electron volt (eV) is trouble and near the horizon, were talking GeV, if not TeV
Those are just a few of the problems which would have to be overcome.
Speculation is fun, and with a postgrad degree in physics, it becomes HUGE fun.
I do have one very small bone to pick with the OP. There is nothing to indicate that the scientists "suspect" that aliens are using black holes. Precision in language is important. Suspect, as a verb, means to imagine to be true. In the language I read the scientists statements seem more like playful speculation of possibility, not probability. But the post, in all, is much more scientifically credible and accurate than a lot of the pseudoscience I see on ATS. Those posts and comments tend to run to the "let's lay in the fetal position in our urine soaked jammies and wait for the end."

I have a question. This black hole drive right ? If I read this thread correctly , folks think this could be built now ? I personaly find this hard to believe since we are on a planet where we still burn fossil fuel to move around.

Originally posted by nik1halo
reply to post by jkrog08

 

Some good postings here and some interesting theories.

Not meaning to be picky here, but:

(a lightyear is the time it takes light, the fastest known speed, to reach something).

Wrong. A lightyear is the distance that light (at the universal constant speed of light ~186,000 miles/sec) would travel over the period of a year. It is a measurement of distance, not time.

Hooray, scientific literacy at last. But I'd rather see you use 3X10e8 meters/second as the speed. It's more accurate and uses recognized SI units. To be really accurate use 299,792,458 meters per second as the speed of light in a vacuum. In other stuff the speed changes, which is a good thing since otherwise I couldn't see a thing. The changes in the speed of photons causes refraction and diffraction, which causes eyeglasses and eyes, for that matter, to work.

reply to post by Silicis n Volvo


So, in your opinion, we'll just sit down here and do nothing at all just because we won't be able to reach stars that are too far away from us with a starship propelled by one of these two resources?

I think that, if any of this turn out to be true in the future, we would be able to travel around our own galaxy ia a much faster way. And that's already something.

Regardless of this data, it just reinforces the idea that we have barely scratched the surface of space travel (and many other things). And that if we can in a mere 100 or so years, make the leaps of technology or even theories that bring entirely new possibilities of traveling across the expanse of the universe, why would not another species that has had more time... say, 1,000, or 10,000 years, could have easily solved the riddle? The fact that Sagan (after claiming earlier in his career aliens have probably visited our planet, more than once), much later in is career, stated that it was simply impossible to travel the vast distances, and so aliens couldn't possibly be here, makes me believe even more so he had been approached for a disinformation agenda. And that other scientists still use that reasoning as a crutch baffles me.

While I realize that scientists and astronomers won't bite into the "impossibility" apple, and will not support any idea they can't prove or at least somehow hypothesize, you'd think they would be open-minded about space travel. It's pretty clear that we are still utterly ignorant about propulsion systems, and many mysteries of the universe, and it boggles the mind that people can't grasp that the distances involved is probably one of the least likely reasons for lack of alien visitation.

reply to post by Silicis n Volvo

we can not see our entire galaxy but from what we on earth can see with our most advanced technology is stars that are thousands of light years away

and we've only been watching for how long? light from those stars have taken those very same thousands of years to reach us. and how large is the galaxy again? if aliens started traveling FTL around the time of the dinosaurs and they started from the opposite side of the galaxy, do you think we'd be seeing them by now?

ok so lets face it the only way any government will entertain this idea is if the black hole drive can be used as some sort of weapon !
then we will see funding see a project much like project orion with the atomic detonations which was gonna be used as a weapon.

Another point brought up about the drive " how do you stop it?" isnt the black hole drive running on fed in matter ? to keep it expelling energy , wouldnt you then just feed it with anti matter to reduce its energy expelling potential?

Im just wondering really how you would contain a black hole , using super cooled magnets ? much like the LHC

It really brings in some amount of questions because , if humans are going to use this method of travel how exactly would we go about testing it safely without accidentally releasing a black hole into our own solar system!

Im hoping for something entirely different like the dimensional travel mentioned earlier !

You guys do know we have this capability already though right , we are already packin the dimensional drives in our heads , its called '___' hahaha

reply to post by VonDoomen

How does squeezing/compressing dark matter annihilate it?

According to some theories on dark matter, one of the ways it is different from regular matter is that its particles and antiparticles are exactly the same. I think this is to explain why it doesn't interact with regular matter except through gravity.

Anyway, assuming dark matter particles are their own antiparticles, when they collide under the right circumstances, they annihilate each other. The interstellar medium is really spread out, and particles in it hardly ever collide, but if you vacuum it up and squeeze it into a box, the collisions will become more and more regular, until it goes kaboom.



[edit on 26-11-2009 by georgejetson]

reply to post by Outrageo

Here's an interesting side note: travelling at warp 9 (Star Trek) 9x the speed of light it would still take 1300 years to reach M-31 in Andromeda or a trip of about 100k light years would take about 50 years. Just some figures I got out of a book. It really got me thinking though about the immense distances of and in the Universe.

last time i checked black holes destroy everything so good luck with that theory!

Some additional information from the originating scientists is coming forth. Seems they've generated substantial interest in their theories and are being asked for more detail and corroborating criteria.

Well - an interesting response included some specific criteria on the parameters of the black hole used for making such jumps and by default then isolating the fact that some black holes are unsuitable for interstellar travel while others are ideal.

According to these scientists/authors, a black hole with the correct attributes need not be "found" necessarily, but rather they suggest that alien civilizations may have developed the ability to "create" them. Presumably, once humans perfect such science and technology ourselves, we can then join the galactic transportation network. If black holes can be "made", that is, synthetically constructed, it can then be used in space travel. The recipe calls for these minimum five criteria:

The [constructed] Black Hole:
1. has a long enough lifespan to be useful,
2. is powerful enough to accelerate itself up to a reasonable fraction of the speed of light in a reasonable amount of time,
3. is small enough that we can access the energy to make it,
4. is large enough that we can focus the energy to make it,
5. has mass comparable to a starship.

The scientists go on to say:

Fortunately, black holes have a sweet spot in terms of size, power and lifespan which is almost ideal. If you take a trip to Alpha Centauri, with an acceleration of 1g to the half way point, and then decelerate at 1g for the remainder of the journey, the trip takes a relativistic 3.5 years. A black hole that would survive the entire trip would have a radius of 0.9 attometers, would have a mass of 606,000 tonnes, and a power output of 160 petawatts. The lifespan of the black hole could be extended by feeding it mass, too.

For longer trips, you could use larger but weaker holes, and smaller and more powerful ones for short trips.

Well, that's 'forward thinking and out-of-the-box' if I've ever heard it!

Now if this just came from some SciFi junkie or a Hollyweird screenwriter that would be one thing. But my curiosity is piqued because we're getting this from some down-to-earth (more or less), presumably cautious and typically stodgy gearhead PhDs.

Here's what they say strapping a Black Hole to your starship may look like...



Probably not available yet on eBay Motors...

It is just a matter of us connecting with that higher area of existance where we will find ourself and contact will occur. It is possible to reach them like this. It can happen when you attune with 5D energies and touch that reality. You are thus effectivly bringing towards you 5D energy and reality. You will see this new reality like flashes of lights, and your ears might pop as it rushes all around toward your senses. Prepare for contact.

reply to post by TrueBrit


You don't need the power of the LHC to produce a black hole. All you need is an adiabatic reactor which is quite small and costs about $60k to build. In 1993, I built the first one which was then refined and built by Eric Cornell of JILA Labs in Colorado (see Time June 1995). Adiabatic reactions cause entanglement, produce Bose Einstein Condensates and singularities through forced sub atomic degeneracy by cooling the target area to absolute zero inside magnetic bubbles. I've discussed this with Michio Kaku as well. So, you don't need huge energies to produce a black hole or open a "portal" using entanglement. My project was actually stopped because the government was concerned about my next phase increase in energy inputs and the containment abilities of my magnetic systems as well as the potential to weaponize the technology by some fanatic. We wouldn't want earth reduced to a Schwarzschild radius of say 7.5 to 9 cm's right? It would make things a little tight?

Reactor Controller

The reactor is sitting under the control head. Hopefully there is not enough info here to make one ;-)

Cheers - Dave

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