Copenhagen Conference - Dec. 7-18, 2009

Whether you fall on the side of climate change deniers or are in agreement with the science, it makes obvious sense to be aware of what is happening in Copenhagen, before, during and after the conference.

The purpose of this thread is to follow the revelations brought forward as they are tabled.

Debate on issues brought forward at the conference would be appreciated.

For instance, this news came out today:

The US President will be making a one-day stopover during the first part of the UN climate conference in the Danish capital where he is expected to announce an American emissions reduction target of 17 percent.

en.cop15.dk...

Not unexpected, really... I believe that makes ~ 70 world leaders in attendance.

Anyways, the link above is the 'official' website for the conference happening from December 7 to 18, 2009.

On the issue of the 'hacked emails', here is the response found within the conference website:

“The (East Anglia researchers) violated a fundamental principle of science (…) they built a group to do gatekeeping, which is also totally unacceptable. They play science as a power game,” Hans von Storch tells The Wall Street Journal.

Other scientists are less outraged.

“Whilst some of the e-mails show scientists to be all too human, nothing I have read makes me doubt the veracity of the peer review process or the general warming trend in the global temperature recorded,” Piers Forster, an environment professor at the University of Leeds, tells Reuters.

en.cop15.dk...

Much has been made of this on ATS already and threads are dedicated to uncovering the facts. Here, I believe, is the best thread ( by member Shirakawa debating the emails found:

In BAN - Hadley CRU hacked with release of hundreds of docs and emails

This is a good thread - S&F - We need to make people on ATS aware of this and I like the way you are focusing specifically on the conference itself. You should post this information on the thread I have listed in my signature file below as well to make more people aware of how it all ties together.

Originally posted by masqua
Whether you fall on the side of climate change deniers or are in agreement with the science, it makes obvious sense to be aware of what is happening in Copenhagen, before, during and after the conference.

That's a little misleading isn't it? When the scientists hardly agree, what is meant by "agreement with the science"? I guess since you've contrasted climate change deniers, with the science, I guess you mean the "science" is in agreement with AGW'ers.

My feeling's are that there are few who deny climate change, but many who are sceptical of AGW as the major cause for warming. Anyways, I know this isn't a discussion on climate change itself, but on the Copenhagen treaty.

My views, are that it will be used as a tool to implement a global governance structure (not neccessarily a 'Global Government'), and the UN will seek to gain more powers and control. That's just my opinion at this point, I don't have time to post any evidence right now, but I'm interested to see what others come up with.

Cheers

Originally posted by Curious and Concerned

That's a little misleading isn't it? When the scientists hardly agree, what is meant by "agreement with the science"? I guess since you've contrasted climate change deniers, with the science, I guess you mean the "science" is in agreement with AGW'ers.

Maybe I should change the word to 'facts' instead of 'science'.

Since science, imo, is the pursuit of facts, I made the mistake of associating facts with science. 'Scientists', on the other hand are people, and you know what they say about people and opinions... everyone has them and most differ widely.

So, OK... it's not science we're after, it's facts.

Does that suit, Curious and Concerned?

[edit on 25/11/09 by masqua]

Originally posted by masqua
percent.


Not unexpected, really... I believe that makes ~ 70 world leaders in attendance.

Hmmmm.....70?
Is this a judicial and ecclestical council?

reply to post by Alethea


I don't understand your question. please explain.

Here's a chance for checking on facts:

The scale of the challenge of assuring global food security is reflected in current projections for population growth, and the accompanying projected growth in the demand for food. On current trends, the world’s population is projected to swell from 6.8 billion to 9.1 billion by 2050. Most of the growth, as can be expected, will occur in developing countries. Feeding 9.1 billion people will require that overall global food production grow by 70 per cent. Production in the developing countries will need to almost double.

The enormous burden of feeding a growing global population is made heavier by the expected adverse impact of climate change on food production. Recent studies and projections paint a dire picture. In Eastern and South Asia, climate change is expected to affect rains, increase the frequency of droughts, and raise average temperatures, threatening the availability of fresh water for agricultural production. In sub-Saharan Africa, arid and semi-arid areas are projected to increase significantly. And in Southern Africa, yields from rain-fed agriculture are expected to fall by up to 50 per cent as early as 2020.

en.cop15.dk...

*Bolding mine

Desertification, availability of fresh potable water and population growth are things we could look into.

How truthful is this report on the Copenhagen website?

The author's credentials:

About IFAD’s President
Kanayo F. Nwanze began his term as IFAD’s fifth President on 1 April 2009. A Nigerian national, Nwanze has a strong record as an advocate and leader of change and a keen understanding of the complexity of development issues. He will be attending COP15, and will be a keynote speaker during the Agricultural and Rural Development Day on 12 December.

[edit on 25/11/09 by masqua]

Nice thread, Masqua.

At Copenhagen, Obama is apparently going to push for 17% cuts in GHG emissions by 2020 in the US:

President Barack Obama is to pledge to cut greenhouse gas emissions in the US in several stages, beginning with a 17% cut by 2020, the White House has said.

The offer will be made at December's UN climate talks in Copenhagen, which Mr Obama will attend.

BBC

However, it's pretty certain that Obama is going to play this cool and no firm global agreements will be made.

A group of well-established and active climate scientists have summarised the most recent science to plug the gap between the last IPCC report and where we are now (the IPCC report is more than conservative cf. current knowledge)

The Copenhagen Diagnosis

Cheers.

[edit on 25-11-2009 by melatonin]

Originally posted by masqua
Does that suit, Curious and Concerned?
[edit on 25/11/09 by masqua]

My opinion is that if you wanted this to be purely a discussion on the events at Copenhagen, you shouldn't have shown a clear bias towards the matter of climate change in the opening sentence. Interesting how that's the only aspect of my post you responded too...

I guess it just goes to show that "Super Moderator's" have opinions too

In related news, there is an English language version of the Copenhagen Post, which will be nice to know about as things happen surrounding the conference itself.

here's an interesting story of what they plan for protestors:

Prisons prepare for an influx of detainees during the UN Climate Change Conference happening in two weeks

Overcrowding in the country’s prisons means protestors arrested during the climate conference will be held in uncomfortable conditions.

Climate activists are gearing up for the UN Climate Change Conference in two weeks, but face harsh jail conditions if arrested.

Legislation was recently tightened to allow police to hold protestors for up to 40 days if they hinder police work and the already overstretched prison service is gearing up for new arrivals.

Vestre Fængsel prison in Copenhagen is preparing to house those who are being held in custody by doubling up on cell-space and holding others in the prison gym and workshop areas.

www.cphpost.dk...

reply to post by Curious and Concerned


I made the distinction between science and scientists:

science = verifyable facts
scientists = people, who crreate distinctions on those facts by their opinions.

And, to answer the second part of your post:

supermoderators = people too, who create distinctions on facts by their opinions.

As to...

you shouldn't have shown a clear bias towards the matter of climate change in the opening sentence.

I don't believe I DID show a bias, as I believe facts are evidence and science is based on the research of those evident facts.

Semantics.

Good thread, and the AGW is Busted, I really do not want to hear about any 'possible' explanaition on 'why' the emails are written as they are, the mails are not up for personal interpretation, it is proven way beyond 100% that the Facts in the AGW is nothing more then a 'coocked up tale of a planet far away'.

Climate change, oyes indeed, and I keep telling people, there are NOTHING we can do about it, it will accure wether Al Gore (LIAR) gets rich or not.

Gore can not do Anything to 'fix' the climate, there is Nothing to fix, Earth does what it does over and over again and I refuse to allow people to 'whitewash' one of the grosest Frauds and Theft in human history in that manner...

What will all the Trillion of dollars they ARE going to TAKE from you gonna help ? Pay for more chemtrail planes ??

Use the green paper to cover the sun? Is it going to be used for Green/Free Energy Technology ? !! NO !! , it will go to make more 'gadgets for you to have in your home in form of 'measurements' on your Energy usage etc.

Google is going to monitor your energy use via 'Smart Grid', a system with advanced algorithms that reconizes dishwashers and tv's etc. And they ARE going to Tax you Extra if you go above the 'preferd' useage on your home, based on the size of your home....- Yea, Freedom -

The Media is as proven in this breaking case Shown and Proven they are a NWO tool of spreading propeganda to indocrtinate YOU to sign your freedom away, according to agenda 21 , YOU do NOT deserve the RIGHT to own a car, YOU do NOT deserver a big house, this can not be hard to grasp ??? OR ?????

As I live in Copenhagen, I will keep you updated on this thread with references to official statements in danish newspappers and to the NGO / leftwing fights too

There are already plans that there will be rumble in the jungle, and danish police have already made several extra cells for those who makes trouble.

The place that the police have made, is so big, that a police bus can drive inside, and police, social workers, foreingdepartment and so on, will stand ready to empty the bus, and criminals, will go to the police , social workers will deal with youngsters (below 15) and foreign trouble makers will go to foreign department people.

Police have already said that there will be arrests if people are known trouble makers, when thy arrive to Denmark.

I will keep you updated...

Originally posted by AUM68
As I live in Copenhagen, I will keep you updated on this thread with references to official statements in danish newspappers and to the NGO / leftwing fights too

There are already plans that there will be rumble in the jungle, and danish police have already made several extra cells for those who makes trouble.

The place that the police have made, is so big, that a police bus can drive inside, and police, social workers, foreingdepartment and so on, will stand ready to empty the bus, and criminals, will go to the police , social workers will deal with youngsters (below 15) and foreign trouble makers will go to foreign department people.

Police have already said that there will be arrests if people are known trouble makers, when thy arrive to Denmark.

I will keep you updated...

Yea, GOOD !!
I saw it in a Dansih paper that 'Groups' are planing to attack the Meeting, and they urge all people to Resist ...

Should steal some bomber planes and take out all the Frakkn Bilderbergers with one shot..

Originally posted by masqua
Whether you fall on the side of climate change deniers or are in agreement with the science

Your bias is here for all to see.

I don't care whether you're right or wrong, it's just fair to declare your dog in the hunt.

reply to post by AUM68


It's a wonderful thing that we have your presence in Copenhagen.

There is nothing I can think of which could be more important than to have 'eyes on' the happenings in and around the conference, before during and, of course, after.

I look forward to your contributions and, please, don't wind up in the community centers.

Nov 2009 AWG died. Exposed as perhaps greatest fraud in history. Copenhagen DOA. Criminal actions should follow.

Anyone adhering to this fraud after such horses-mouth, red handed, smoking gun evidence does so at the extreme risk of mass tomato throwing and tar/feathering.

reply to post by Nirgal


One very minor question:

Do you agree or disagree with rising sea levels, receding glaciers and a rising global mean temperature?

That is the science. Those are the facts.

I've said nothing about AGW... nothing at all. In fact, it's what I'd like to have proven beyond any doubt.



[edit on 26/11/09 by masqua]

Climate change deniers? do you work for the mainstream media? I dont deny climate change nor do I agree that CO2 is the cause of climate change whcih is what many many people also believe. So where does that leave us?