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Navy SEALs Face Assault Charges for Capturing Most-Wanted Terrorist

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posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 07:41 PM
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posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 08:25 PM
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Originally posted by deltaboy

Navy SEALs Face Assault Charges for Capturing Most-Wanted Terrorist


www.foxnews.com


As soon as I saw it was a source called "Fox News", I had to wonder what spin
they played this time until I came upon this post which states it properly.


Originally posted by okamitengu
well im sure all of these are good points, but you guys seemed to have missed the bit where he gave a false statement...

dereliction of performance of duty for willfully failing to safeguard a detainee, making a false official statement, and assault.

now i support any soldiers doing thier jobs, and doingthem well. but a false statement brings all of this into question. if they were just doing thier job. which for seals is one hell of a hard time... why make up sh*t about it.

just asking...


Thanks man for having a logical thinking
. It's a rarity specially on ATS.



posted on Nov, 27 2009 @ 01:27 AM
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Originally posted by ADVISOR
No, this is the BS that happens when political correctness asshattedness and bureaucratic bleeding hearts sympathize for and with the enemy.

The bastard is a terrorist, not a red cross volunteer for crying out loud.
The SOB is lucky he didn't get his jaw broken and his limbs hog tied behind his back.

They don't play by rules, yet US Military are bound by them. The is doing things by the book, then their is retarded f'n BS!

This is reterded f'n BS and they know it, playing the game is going to get some of these dip# no load paper pushing puss nuts a busted face and buried in their back yards.


Freaking idiots started the war, now they cry because it is making them look bad when the Armed Forces does it's job.

The military is trained for war, not policing and hand holding.

These bleeding heart apologistic sympathizers need to wake up and re evaluate who's side they are on.

Because it is starting to look like to opposite one to me.

Bloody lip please, had one when I was 5 and the only damage it caused was to my little kid feelings. Did "Ahmed Hashim Abed" aka THE TERRORIST have his feelings hurt....

Ah poor whiddle terrorist, come here so Uncle Sam can kiss it GOOD BYE!


When was he convicted of being a "terrorist".. and which law did he break?

Oh yea, he hasn't been convicted of anything.. so by American virtues he's an innocent suspect until proven guilty. You would have loved mother Russia, comrade, they summarily beat & jailed people because the govt wanted it done.

It's sad to see people, Americans no less, actually supporting innocent people being denied due process and abused by oligarch thugs because, hey, the US govt called them a name and suspects them of a crime.

Then again transparently stupid propaganda has you programed like Pavlovs dog to drool and hunger for meat at the sound of the key word "terrorist".. like a frenzied gang of savages some of you folks form into an angry lynch mob ready for swift fatherland justice all because the govt mentioned a specific phrase. Pathetic.



posted on Nov, 27 2009 @ 02:35 AM
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Originally posted by jerico65
reply to post by bsbray11
 



Agreement, huh? I seriously freakin' doubt that. By your first post, your tone is that all US troops are committing warcrimes on a daily basis.

Research, Craftsman. How many "warcrimes" has the US committed in Iraq? And how many troops have been deployed in that AOR? I'll make it easy for you: It's a very small percentage that have had any such accusations like that.

And US troops are being held accountable to a high standard. Anyone that has gone against established ROE has been punished.

Things like that happen to all armies; don't go fooling yourself into thinking it's just the US military that's doing it.




Setting foot in Iraq should be charged as a war crime... if following laws matter any more.

The United Nations secretary general, Kofi Annan, declared explicitly the US-led war on Iraq was illegal. here

"I have indicated it was not in conformity with the UN charter. From our point of view and from the charter point of view it was illegal." Since the occupation is illegal, Iraqis have the right of self defense.

Article VI of the US Constitution compels our government to honor the treaties it signs, making UN charter the law of the land.

bush violated the law of the land when he broke UN charter.

Not to mention the bushs idiotic notion that he could defend the US with pre-emptive war, the doctrine in which US troops occupy Iraq, was explicitly repudiated by the Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal in 1946

The Tribunal concluded: "To initiate a war of aggression is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole."

Nuremberg Principle IV states:
en.wikipedia.org...

"The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him."

.. meaning deploying to Iraq is making a MORAL choice to participate in an alleged " supreme international crime" to which "I was just following orders" is not a valid defense.

We are supposedly a nation of blind justice and laws that should bend for no man or no organization, when laws are broken suspects should be charged and given fair due process no matter who they are or where they get a paycheck...

If justice were really blind and international laws enforced, several US officials and a multitude of troops should ALL face charges. If they're found innocent, great.. if not, that is how the justice cookie crumbles..

As a result of the Tokyo Trials, 28 Japanese military and political leaders were charged with Class A crimes, 5,700 Japanese nationals were charged with Class B and C crimes... I see no reason US officials and military personnel should be above established international case law, especially in light of the horrific damage & suffering that has resulted from the bush and his actions.

But reality is.. there will be no true justice, the nation that lectures everyone about adhering to our shining example of how great following the "rule of law" is.. has summarily ignored international laws as a nuisance... and the sheeple are applauding it under the guise of a phony emotion called nationalism.

We no longer a nation of laws, we're a nation of "feelings"..



posted on Nov, 27 2009 @ 06:14 AM
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reply to post by GovtFlu
 



Ouch!! dude you just floored half of self righteous Americans who believed in freedom thru Iraq war and bush doctrine. That's gotta hurt lawl!!

Kudos to you



posted on Nov, 27 2009 @ 10:46 AM
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reply to post by GovtFlu
 
Hopefully Obama puts an end to this war. Besides, what was this war over anyways?



posted on Nov, 27 2009 @ 01:39 PM
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Originally posted by December_Rain
reply to post by GovtFlu
 



Ouch!! dude you just floored half of self righteous Americans who believed in freedom thru Iraq war and bush doctrine. That's gotta hurt lawl!!

Kudos to you


It's just disturbing to me that so many Americans have been turned into a lawless mob of non thinking blood thirsty hypocrites.. after being sprinkled with propaganda dust.

American virtues of following the rule of law, due process and innocent until proven guilty have been replaced with kill or beat up everyone the govt claims is a terrorists before giving them kangaroo court justice followed by a swift death... the new American way looks an awful lot like old mother russia or 1930s Germany.

As a DDA once told me "the law doesn't care who you are".. US troops and politicians are not immune from adhering to established laws.. blind justice simply does not care about emotional attachments or feelings of national pride... the law is the law and there is no getting around the evidence the entire Iraq quagmire is an illegal clusterF that nobody in real power is being held accountable for.

Yeah sure TPTB will sacrifice a few enlisted pawns, like these SEALS, who were expendable anyway.. all for the appearance that we respect the law.. meanwhile our so called leaders responsible for devastating millions of lives are laughing heartily on the golf course at violating any treaty that gets in the way of their agenda... all while people get all puffed up and emotionally badass with national pride and applaud lawlessness. Disgusting.

"You can charge our heroes man!, killing Iraqis is defending your freedom dude!! why to you hate America, huh? go live with the terrorists" is the typical knee jerk reaction belched out by Americans who demand other nations, like Iran, adhere to the same laws & UN charters our govt ignores.

I dont see how anyone who reads English can defend the US govts actions based ONLY on the facts of history & international law... I guess it's easier NOT TO ACTUALLY THINK and spit out nationalistic cliches & platitudes to justify slaughtering innocent souls who mean us no harm... "killing in the name of..."

The Kellogg-Briand treaty, negotiated by U.S. Secretary of State Frank Kellogg, ratified by the United States in 1929.

ARTICLE I

The High Contracting Parties solemnly declare in the names of their respective peoples that they condemn recourse to war for the solution of international controversies, and renounce it, as an instrument of national policy in their relations with one another.

ARTICLE II

The High Contracting Parties agree that the settlement or solution of all disputes or conflicts of whatever nature or of whatever origin they may be, which may arise among them, shall never be sought except by pacific means.

In 1932, the secretary of state, Henry L. Stimson stated, “War between nations was renounced by the signatories (including the US and UK) of that Treaty. This means that it has become throughout practically the entire world... an illegal thing. Hereafter when nations engage in armed conflict... we denounce them as law breakers.”

The US used overwhelming deadly force, against civilian targets no less, to settle a dispute with Iraq, ignoring the UN Security Councils calls for a peaceful resolution.. a clear violation of the law... in doing so our leaders have turned US troops into crime suspects via vicarious liability.

The GOP & DNC political parties are no better than the nazi party for using national pride to justify these violent illegal actions... a lot of Germans bought into the idea their leaders were justified, their political party was righteous, the fatherland must be protected.. which looks real silly today doesn't it?

en.wikipedia.org...
www.thirdworldtraveler.com...



posted on Nov, 27 2009 @ 03:09 PM
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LOL!!

As a Navy Seal your orders should be as follows:

#1CAPTURE A TERRORIST

#2. Punch him the face

#3. Punch him in the face, again, and await further orders.





posted on Nov, 27 2009 @ 03:34 PM
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Originally posted by GovtFlu
Setting foot in Iraq should be charged as a war crime... if following laws matter any more..


Then you should get into your 73 Pinto you nicknamed the Millennium Falcon and drive down to the local constabulary at light speed to swear out a warrant for my arrest, huh?

Your post is all well and good, but if this was such a crime, how come other nations in this wonderful world of ours didn't dogpile onto the US for committing this crime? Kofi Annan got all bunged up since he and his relatives were receiving kickbacks from the "oil for food" program and didn't like seeing his cash-cow taken away.



posted on Nov, 27 2009 @ 03:41 PM
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Originally posted by GovtFlu
The US used overwhelming deadly force, against civilian targets no less, to settle a dispute with Iraq, ignoring the UN Security Councils calls for a peaceful resolution.. a clear violation of the law... in doing so our leaders have turned US troops into crime suspects via vicarious liability.


Really? I guess you were sitting on the targeting briefings, huh? I'm pretty sure you weren't, but I was. I saw an ass-load of AAA sites that were in school playgrounds, hospitals, etc. If you read Geneva Conventions, LOAC, etc, you will see that if you do something like that, that school now becomes a lawful target. Sucks, but hey, I didn't make the rules.

In all seriousness, tho, (not that anyone here would believe me), targets like that were either bypassed to avoid hitting the school, etc, or taken out with the smallest weapon that would do the job.



[edit on 27-11-2009 by jerico65]



posted on Nov, 27 2009 @ 06:12 PM
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Note to Navy Seals trainers: next time, before hurting the mastermind of the murder and mutilation of four Blackwater USA security guards in Fallujah, wait five minutes: if no one shots at you, punches you, kicks you in the balls, then feel free to arrest him, but please be gentle: caress him and ask him (but gently) "will you follow us sir?".
Since they were catching Ahmed Hashim Abed, and not Mickey Mouse, there was to expect something bad, it was an operation worthy their presence: and they did their job, period. Call red cross rather than Navy Seals next time, if human rights come to your mind now and not when the dude did this:


On March 31, 2004, Iraqi insurgents in Fallujah attacked a convoy containing four American private military contractors from Blackwater USA who were conducting delivery for food caterers ESS.[81] The four contractors, Scott Helvenston, Jerry Zovko, Wesley Batalona and Michael Teague, were attacked and killed with grenades and small arms fire. Their bodies were hung from a bridge crossing the Euphrates.


en.wikipedia.org...
They are soldiers, and ELITE ones: trained. Now let's worry about some bloody lip



posted on Nov, 27 2009 @ 06:19 PM
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reply to post by deltaboy
 


I do not know if you are joking or not, because I hope you are. How the hell are you going to get off saying that beheading is better then busting a lip. Im sorry but a busted lip after killing four Us contractors , burning their body and hanging on display isnt enough. They should have shot him on sight. Im sick and tired of seeing terrorist getting more rights them our own military. The man deserves whatever the hell he gets, and i hope its a long and painful. It really sickens me to see a seal being charged against the word of a terrorist.



posted on Nov, 27 2009 @ 10:32 PM
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Originally posted by jerico65

Originally posted by GovtFlu
Setting foot in Iraq should be charged as a war crime... if following laws matter any more..


Then you should get into your 73 Pinto you nicknamed the Millennium Falcon and drive down to the local constabulary at light speed to swear out a warrant for my arrest, huh?

Your post is all well and good, but if this was such a crime, how come other nations in this wonderful world of ours didn't dogpile onto the US for committing this crime? Kofi Annan got all bunged up since he and his relatives were receiving kickbacks from the "oil for food" program and didn't like seeing his cash-cow taken away.


Lot of chatter at Nuremberg about 'just following orders'...didn't fly too well there, did it? And what does your comment about Kofi have to do with culpability in war crimes?

It's all very well and good to get saucy on the issue, but that war was a sham...and a crime.



posted on Nov, 27 2009 @ 10:35 PM
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The next time they file charges on the teams, we should send a team in to file something on the accusers, if'n ya know what I mean...Go Teams!! Go Navy!!



posted on Nov, 28 2009 @ 02:00 PM
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Originally posted by jerico65

Originally posted by GovtFlu
Setting foot in Iraq should be charged as a war crime... if following laws matter any more..


Then you should get into your 73 Pinto you nicknamed the Millennium Falcon and drive down to the local constabulary at light speed to swear out a warrant for my arrest, huh?

Your post is all well and good, but if this was such a crime, how come other nations in this wonderful world of ours didn't dogpile onto the US for committing this crime? Kofi Annan got all bunged up since he and his relatives were receiving kickbacks from the "oil for food" program and didn't like seeing his cash-cow taken away.


The answer to your "why" is politics and fear. bush lied just as bad to other nations as he did to the American people. Kofi Annan supposedly being "bunged up" by whatever doesn't make him wrong. Read the treaties our govt agreed to, ratified then ignored... it's all in simple black & white.

You might recall Spain provided 1300 troops.. then withdrew them as their new leader Zapatero vocally lambasted bush "You can't organize a war on the basis of lies," "Wars such as that which has occurred in Iraq only allow hatred, violence and terror to proliferate,".. but I suppose Zapatero is bunged up too, eh?

...and I drive a VW

www.commondreams.org...



posted on Nov, 28 2009 @ 02:07 PM
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Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Lot of chatter at Nuremberg about 'just following orders'...didn't fly too well there, did it? And what does your comment about Kofi have to do with culpability in war crimes?


Probably has to do with good ol' Kofi not having a leg to stand on when it comes to what's illegal and legal.


And I don't remember saying anything about, "just following orders". Are you actually reading the same posts?



Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
It's all very well and good to get saucy on the issue, but that war was a sham...and a crime.


Whatever.



posted on Nov, 28 2009 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by GovtFlu
The answer to your "why" is politics and fear. bush lied just as bad to other nations as he did to the American people. Kofi Annan supposedly being "bunged up" by whatever doesn't make him wrong. Read the treaties our govt agreed to, ratified then ignored... it's all in simple black & white.


It makes Kofi a hypocrite since the only reason he was whining about the war is because he saw his cash flow disappearing. I seriously doubt he was worried about a treaty not being followed.


Originally posted by GovtFlu
You might recall Spain provided 1300 troops.. then withdrew them as their new leader Zapatero vocally lambasted bush "You can't organize a war on the basis of lies," "Wars such as that which has occurred in Iraq only allow hatred, violence and terror to proliferate,".. but I suppose Zapatero is bunged up too, eh?


You mean right after the Madrid bombing, right? Never let a crisis go to waste!

[edit on 28-11-2009 by jerico65]



posted on Nov, 28 2009 @ 02:23 PM
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Originally posted by jerico65

Originally posted by GovtFlu
The US used overwhelming deadly force, against civilian targets no less, to settle a dispute with Iraq, ignoring the UN Security Councils calls for a peaceful resolution.. a clear violation of the law... in doing so our leaders have turned US troops into crime suspects via vicarious liability.


Really? I guess you were sitting on the targeting briefings, huh? I'm pretty sure you weren't, but I was. I saw an ass-load of AAA sites that were in school playgrounds, hospitals, etc. If you read Geneva Conventions, LOAC, etc, you will see that if you do something like that, that school now becomes a lawful target. Sucks, but hey, I didn't make the rules.

In all seriousness, tho, (not that anyone here would believe me), targets like that were either bypassed to avoid hitting the school, etc, or taken out with the smallest weapon that would do the job.



[edit on 27-11-2009 by jerico65]


Actually I saw CNN where the war mongers were cheer leading the overwhelming deadly force they metaphorically called "shock & awe".. unless "shock & awe" didn't involve bombs... we were actually dropping puppies, kittens, jello molds, happiness, sunshine and cigarettes...

Oh and I'm sure you saw all manner of evil horrible bad things in civilian neighborhoods.. like those deadly "mini WMD factories" that were actually trash trucks filled with deadly Baghdad garbage.. that just needed to be wiped out with high explosives.. that doesn't make it legal to lob deadly munitions in residential areas where families not unlike yours live.

I get it, we're America.. treaties we agreed to are guidelines, but for nations like Iran.. treaties are carved in stone laws that will be followed under the pain of sanctions and war.



posted on Nov, 28 2009 @ 03:15 PM
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Originally posted by jerico65

Originally posted by GovtFlu
The answer to your "why" is politics and fear. bush lied just as bad to other nations as he did to the American people. Kofi Annan supposedly being "bunged up" by whatever doesn't make him wrong. Read the treaties our govt agreed to, ratified then ignored... it's all in simple black & white.


It makes Kofi a hypocrite since the only reason he was whining about the war is because he saw his cash flow disappearing. I seriously doubt he was worried about a treaty not being followed.


Originally posted by GovtFlu
You might recall Spain provided 1300 troops.. then withdrew them as their new leader Zapatero vocally lambasted bush "You can't organize a war on the basis of lies," "Wars such as that which has occurred in Iraq only allow hatred, violence and terror to proliferate,".. but I suppose Zapatero is bunged up too, eh?


You mean right after the Madrid bombing, right? Never let a crisis go to waste!

[edit on 28-11-2009 by jerico65]


If being a hypocrite is the standard for being inaccurate, the US govt can be ignored forever and Websters can re-define hypocrite as "See the life of george w the bush".

Just admit you don't care the USA is violating all kinds of international laws, its more intellectually honest than the tired tactic of silly verbal attacks targeted at those you disagree with.

Nationalistic intoxication is a powerful drunk. A political party from the 1930s, the nazi party, understood this and drowned Germany in nationalism kool-aid.. they too defended the fatherlands actions as righteous.. regardless of what foreigners had to say. Another political party with a violent agenda, the GOP, decided not to let good propaganda go to waste.

I simply don't care what piece of stained cloth on a stick people rally under, or about the letters on their uniform patches.. breaking laws, lying and killing innocent souls who mean you no harm was wrong when a 1930s political party did it, and more wrong when a y2k political party did it.. it's worse today because we had history to learn from.

“Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” -- Hermann Goering

thinkexist.com...



posted on Nov, 28 2009 @ 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by GovtFlu
Actually I saw CNN where the war mongers were cheer leading the overwhelming deadly force they metaphorically called "shock & awe".. unless "shock & awe" didn't involve bombs... we were actually dropping puppies, kittens, jello molds, happiness, sunshine and cigarettes...


CNN? Well, now, why didn't you say so!!! I mean, CNN just trumps everything else out there! You know they had all the up to date targeting info and just knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that the evil US empire was just killing for the sake of killing.

Craftman, if we wanted to just level Baghdad for laughs, it would have been done a lot simplier than what the USAF did on Day One of the war. It could have just been carpet bombed with cruise missiles, or if the AF wanted to really rack up points towards Air Medals, we'd have the BUFFs and gunships put a hurt on it.

"Overwhelming deadly force". Do you even remotely understand what a war is? It's not like Call to Duty in your mom's basement.


Originally posted by GovtFlu
Oh and I'm sure you saw all manner of evil horrible bad things in civilian neighborhoods.. like those deadly "mini WMD factories" that were actually trash trucks filled with deadly Baghdad garbage.. that just needed to be wiped out with high explosives.. that doesn't make it legal to lob deadly munitions in residential areas where families not unlike yours live.


I saw AAA weapons in housing areas, in school playgrounds and one next to a mosque. Sorry to break your tender heart, but if the enemy decides to put them there, they become a target. It sucks, but it happens.

You obviously didn't do any research into the LOAC, did you?

Ask yourself why they'd put such targets like AAA near a Mosque.


Originally posted by GovtFlu
I get it, we're America.. treaties we agreed to are guidelines, but for nations like Iran.. treaties are carved in stone laws that will be followed under the pain of sanctions and war.


Another topic for another thread.



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