Climategate: GOP Opens Probe Into Climate-Change E-Mails

I really don't understand how people cannot recognize that we are obviously influencing the environment, and thereby influencing the cyclical warming and cooling of the Earth! Yes, for most of time the Earth has been around, there have been natural occurances of warming and cooling, but for those countless milennia, billions of tons of carbon and other elements were not being pumped into the air via human production; Millions of acres of trees were not cut down to make way for further human expansion; and billions of tons of garbage and refuse were not dumped into the world's oceans, or buried in its soil.

The Earth has an almost magical way of regulating itself, but I fear that as the population grows, we are going to put too large of a strain on these regulating features... hell, we already HAVE put a tremendous strain on the planet!

My biggest fear right now, is that the GOP and others who are anti global warming, will use this "scandal" as a means to justify the continued expansion of humanity at its current rate. They will point to the e-mails and say "SEE! You have been lied to! The human race DESERVES to expand and grow, and continue to dominate the planet and all the life on it!" I hope this doesn't happen. Instead I hope that this setback is just that: a setback. My hope is that we can continue to "clean up our act" so to speak, and try to find more efficient and cleaner ways of living life.

I think the biggest part of the global warming hoax is it is deflecting people from the REAL Climate/environment problem. And that is the Horrendous pollution that has taken place and is still taking place by corporations.

I'd take a 1,000,000 tons of CO2 (PLANT FOOD) pumped into the atmosphere
over the 150 tons of mercury per year thats pumped into the atmosphere. and this is just the US. These are the REAL climate/environmental issues.

I dare anyone on this BB to post one...just one single peer reviewed scientific study that proves Global Climate Change is not happening.

Not some big energy funded website or some paid shrill. A solid peer reviewed scientific study.

JUST ONE.

Please God, just one.

reply to post by dwiggen



The problem with your statement is the so-called "science" behind every hypothesis you're basing your attitude on has just been proven to be manipulated and fouled by an agenda driven community. We by God had better stop wasting trillions of dollars on "feel good" nonsense related to the environment until we are 100% CERTAIN that the science behind the changes is solid and uncorrupt. As it stands now, neither one is the case and all the policies based around stopping man driven global climate change are clearly intended to redistribute money, power, and influence rather than intended to do one damn thing to "help" the environment.

Step one is complete... the Al Gore crowd has been exposed and, hopefully, it will continue to unravel. The next step for these hackers needs to be hacking into Shell Oil's computer systems and getting ahold of the documents that show that peak oil was a farce perpetrated by Big Oil to force prices up via fear over scarcity. Then we can eliminate the 2 largest drains on America's economic foundation over the past 3 decades and return to the rip-roaring 50's and 60's when America was producing, growing, and actually living up to the "Richest Country on Earth" name again.

Originally posted by AllexxisF1
I dare anyone on this BB to post one...just one single peer reviewed scientific study that proves Global Climate Change is not happening.

Global climate change is happening. Please produce one peer reviewed study that proves it isn't cyclical and hasn't happened countless times since the big bang. (And no, "because Al Gore said so" is NOT a qualifying peer review process.)

Originally posted by SquirrelNutz

Global Warming is a Hoax, and now we finally have proof!!!!

Human influence may be a hoax, but cyclical global warming happens all the time (in relative terms)

We have a WINNER!!!!!! Very well put. This whole thing comes down to two things. Money and Power. From what I've read of these e-mails these guys were skewing their results to obtain research funding. Think about this. The face of Global Warming in the US is Al Gore. When Gore was Vice President, he was also the head of NASA and the National Science Foundation. He was in a position to be able to influence research by awarding funding.

Ok once again show me one single scientific peer reviewed study that shows Global Climate Change does not exist.

Just one.

For those who believe Global Climate change does exist but does not agree that Humans are responsible show me one clear peer reviewed scientific study that refutes the findings of the worlds leading climatologists.

Just one.

Moreover, claiming that the entire world wide scientific peer review process is somehow a sham by one person's email is absolute lunacy. If you come out tomorrow with a theory backed by solid scientific data there is no possible way on Earth that everyone could refute your findings. No matter how sinister you think they are.

That is the whole point, the facts are the facts. The data has to support your argument. We have our mountain of data to make our case...where's yours?

This site is all about cutting through the crap and disinformation right? well who do you believe more, the worlds top 215 leading climatologist that make little to nothing on thier findings or Big Oil and the trillions and power they stand to loose.

Seriously who is the one being duped here. Especially considering you have no scientific studies that have been peer reviewed to backup your case.

You all clammer for people to WAKE UP, yet here you are sucking on the teet of Big oil and their lies with nothing to back up their claim.

Meanwhile your winters are getting shorter and much colder and the summers are getting warmer. Species are dying and our planet ability to support humans is eroding away.

Instead of catching up with the rest of the world on climate change and starting new industries to make crazy amounts of money, create thousands of new jobs and industries and finally....FINALLY tell big oil to go take an F-ing hike...you would all still insist on arguing on something tant amount to the world being flat.

China who is now jumping on the green technology bandwagon should be the biggest wake up call that just maybe you should get your heads out of your collective keisters.

Originally posted by VonDoomen
I'd take a 1,000,000 tons of CO2 (PLANT FOOD) pumped into the atmosphere
over the 150 tons of mercury per year thats pumped into the atmosphere. and this is just the US. These are the REAL climate/environmental issues.

Amen. The shame of it is that we've spent all of this time, effort and money promoting this global warming scam when there are real environmental problems out there that most all of us can agree on and that we can do something about. Instead, the powers that be concentrate on this nonsense.

reply to post by Carseller4

Global Warming is a Hoax, and now we finally have proof!!!!

What proof? It has yet to be proven that those emails and documents are legit. It'd be too easy to create your own emails and documents, pass them off as fact, and cause a big uproar.

Yes, it's certainly possible, but without definitive concrete proof and verification - why jump to conclusions?

Originally posted by burdman30ott6
reply to post by dwiggen

 

Then we can eliminate the 2 largest drains on America's economic foundation over the past 3 decades and return to the rip-roaring 50's and 60's when America was producing, growing, and actually living up to the "Richest Country on Earth" name again.

Then what? We just keep pluggin along and pretend like we're not destroying the world in the process? Listen, I'm right there with you when it comes to exposing any kind of farce for what it really is. But when you doubt the very fact that the Earth provides a very limited supply of resources, that's where we disagree!

Peak Oil is very real, and very frightening. Big Oil didn't come up with Peak Oil to scare us into buying more, they don't want people to know about it so that they don't start creating alternative sources of energy! What you're saying doesn't make ANY sense at all, and just sounds like the rest of the (overly) consumerist drivel that's been shoved down our throats for the past three-quarters of a century!

Originally posted by AllexxisF1
I dare anyone on this BB to post one...just one single peer reviewed scientific study that proves Global Climate Change is not happening.

Not some big energy funded website or some paid shrill. A solid peer reviewed scientific study.

JUST ONE.

Please God, just one.

I don't think you get it. These e-mails prove that peer reviewed studies are BOGUS! Why would we ever trust a peer reviewed study again? The scientific community lied, manipulated data, omitted data, and threatened opposition. You want a peer review...I want a Congressional investigation!

Exactly people here would rather believe a scientists stolen email as proof that there is no Global Climate change (even though none of the emails say this) than the actual mountain of peer reviewed evidence over the last 40 years that absolutely concretely prove that it is happening.

Talk about denying ignorance...this place is loaded with it.

Originally posted by Snarf
reply to post by Carseller4

 

Global Warming is a Hoax, and now we finally have proof!!!!

What proof? It has yet to be proven that those emails and documents are legit. It'd be too easy to create your own emails and documents, pass them off as fact, and cause a big uproar.

Yes, it's certainly possible, but without definitive concrete proof and verification - why jump to conclusions?

Yeah hacked e-mails are not important and reliable....unless they happen to be hacked from Sarah Palin. We have the drive-by media protecting the e-mail from crooked scientists but ran full speed with the Palin info.

Massive fraud is going on in the Science community and no one cares? How many millions of tax payer dollars have gone to this fraud in the form of grants?

reply to post by AllexxisF1


The onus is NOT on the community to disprove human caused climate change, it is rather on the shoulders of those who support the hypothesis to prove their theories as correct. Using your argument one could easily say "I theorize that Pluto is composed largely of God's boogers" and then firmly cross my arms and demand that the theory be upheld until someone can prove me wrong. As we have never taken rock samples from Pluto, it would be difficult to meet the criteria you are trying to apply to man driven climate change.

"Prove me wrong" is NOT the scientific method. The scientific method is "prove your hypothesis." When medieval scholars and explorers began to state that the Earth was spherical, they didn't support their position by telling the flat Earth crowd "prove Earth is flat!" Rather, they climbed into ships and proved their own theory, that Earth was spherical. Why is it that the man driven climate change crowd seems so hell bent on forcing disbelievers to reverse test their theories for them, completely flying in the face of centuries of scientific method tradition which states that the evidence of proof in any theory lies on the shoulders of the theorist, not on the shoulders of the doubter.

What massive fraud?

Where do you people come up with this malarky.

The finding that have been put forth by the IPCC has been peer reviewed by the world's scientific community.

If anyone had any credible data that would refute their findings believe me, we would know about it.

What we have seen is bs data that has never held its own weight. Most of it by climate skeptics who are neither climatologist and are on the big energy pay roll.

Deniers have absolutely ZERO evidence. Nothing. How can you possibly make any argument when you have nothing to back it up.

Moreover I am getting really sick and tired of the Al Gore bashing. Al speaks on behalf of the IPCC he is merely their spokesperson. Al is not out there drilling for core samples.

When you disagree with Al you are disagreeing with the 215 of the worlds top climatologists.

Originally posted by burdman30ott6

The onus is NOT on the community to disprove human caused climate change, it is rather on the shoulders of those who support the hypothesis to prove their theories as correct.

Where did I put my Captain obvious pic.

The IPCC has put forth a mountain of peer reviewed evidence that Global Climate Change is happening and that the current synopsis is that it is man made.

They have their evidence proving their theory. Deniers have yet to put forth their own scientific peer reviewed evidence that refutes it.

We have made our claim, your side has not.

So once again show me a scientific peer reviewed study that refutes the findings of the IPCC.

Just one.




[edit on 25-11-2009 by AllexxisF1]

Originally posted by burdman30ott6
reply to post by dwiggen

 

The problem with your statement is the so-called "science" behind every hypothesis you're basing your attitude on has just been proven to be manipulated and fouled by an agenda driven community. We by God had better stop wasting trillions of dollars on "feel good" nonsense related to the environment until we are 100% CERTAIN that the science behind the changes is solid and uncorrupt. As it stands now, neither one is the case and all the policies based around stopping man driven global climate change are clearly intended to redistribute money, power, and influence rather than intended to do one damn thing to "help" the environment.

Well said - Now we need to get the people of ATS to realize what is about to happen in Copenhagen while we still have time to stop it. The Climategate emails prove that there was intentional deception, and the MSM will not talk about it because the end game is only weeks away.

Hold up a sec.

Where has the mountain of scientific findings for the past 40 years put forth by the IPCC been corrupt.

Show me where any of the evidence they gathered has been found to be corrupted.

Anything.

Just one damn thing.

You guys just love throwing out complete garbage with nothing to back it up.

These e-mails are between people who are considered each other's PEERS! These guys have PEER reviewed each other's data! It is a case of you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours. This is worse than being an Olympic Figure Skating judge. In any other situation this would be considered collusion or fraud. They were certifying each other's results so that they could obtain more research financing.

Originally posted by AllexxisF1
We have made our claim, your side has not.

So once again show me a scientific peer reviewed study that refutes the findings of the IPCC.

Just one.

Can't provide just one... but I can provide more than one.

Exhibit A: Overturning the "Consensus" in One Fell Swoop: The research of Stephen Shwartz

New research from Stephen Schwartz of Brookhaven National Lab concludes that the Earth’s climate is only about one-third as sensitive to carbon dioxide as the IPCC assumes. Schwartz’s study is “in press” at the Journal of Geophysical Research and you can download a preprint of the study here .

That research directly disproves the IPCC's assessment of CO2 effects on climate.

Exhibit B: Lack of concensus in IPCC "peer reviewed" findings

Dr Vincent Gray, of Wellington, is the only person in New Zealand who has been an expert reviewer on every draft of the many IPCC Reports. He recalls” “My greatest achievement was the second report where the draft had a chapter ‘Validation of Climate Models’. I commented that since no climate model has ever been ‘validated’ that the word was inappropriate. They changed the word to ‘evaluate’ 50 times, and since then they have never ‘predicted’ anything. All they do is make ‘projections’ and ‘estimates’

Demonstrates proof that the IPCC systematically ignores dissent in their peer review process. Peer review does not mean concensus... but at the same time dissenting viewpoints from peer reviewers must be acknowledged, the IPCC instead has burried these dissentions and/or smeared the scientists who have made their contradictory views known. There is no scientific process within the anthropogrnic climate change model because it has become nothing more than a political and financial corporation, destroying naysayers in the name of the almighty dollar.

Exhibit C: Less Than Half of all Published Scientists Endorse Global Warming Theory

Last week in his blog post, New Peer-Reviewed Scientific Studies Chill Global Warming Fears, on the Inhofe EPW Press Blog, Marc Morano cited a July 2007 review of 539 abstracts in peer-reviewed scientific journals from 2004 through 2007 that found that climate science continues to shift toward the views of global warming skeptics.

OK, so we've now gone from being fed a so-called "concensus" of scientists to less than half which believe in Anthropogenic global climate change... The peers don't seem to believe the supposedly peer-reviewed IPCC documents now, do they?

Exhibit D: Comment on "The Spatial Extent of 20th-Century Warmth in the Context of the Past 1200 Years"

Osborn and Briffa (Reports, 10 February 2006, p. 841) identified anomalous periods of warmth or cold in the Northern Hemisphere that were synchronous across 14 temperature-sensitive proxies. However, their finding that the spatial extent of 20th-century warming is exceptional ignores the effect of proxy screening on the corresponding significance levels. After appropriate correction, the significance of the 20th-century warming anomaly disappears.

Yet another dissenting peer review which furthers the colapse of the idea that climate change is anything other than a natural cycle.

Exhibit E: Latest Scientific Studies Refute Fears of Greenland Melt

The July 27-29 2007 U.S. Senate trip to Greenland to investigate fears of a glacier meltdown revealed an Arctic land where current climatic conditions are neither alarming nor linked to a rise in man-made carbon dioxide emissions, according to many of the latest peer-reviewed scientific findings. Research in 2006 found that Greenland has been warming since the 1880’s, but since 1955, temperature averages at Greenland stations have been colder than the period between 1881-1955.

Hmmm... climate changes not linked to rise in CO2 gas? In a peer reviewed study, no less?

Exhibit F: IPCC "peer-review" process questioned long before incriminating emails were made public

In “Peer Review? What Peer Review?” McLean writes, “The IPCC would have us believe that its reports are diligently reviewed by many hundreds of scientists and that these reviewers endorse the contents of the report. Analyses of reviewer comments show a very different and disturbing story.”

Please take the time to read this entire article as it may open your eyes to just how accurate the recent exposure of IPCC's suppression of devicive opinions is. The scientific method has absolutely NO PLACE for ad-hominem dismissal of dissenting viewpoints and dissenting findings, but that's exactly what the IPCC has done. They attack any scientist who dares disagree with their "findings" rather than providing data and assaulting the dissenter's countering evidence. NOT SCIENTIFIC, purely a political and wealth driven machine.

Exhibit G: A Variable Sun Paces Millennial Climate

Most scientists have viewed the sun's unvarying brightness as the one constant in the ever-changing climate system. Now, in a paper published online this week by Science (www.sciencexpress.org), paleoceanographers report that the climate of the northern North Atlantic has warmed and cooled nine times in the past 12,000 years in step with the waxing and waning of the sun. Some researchers say the data make solar variability the leading hypothesis to explain the roughly 1500-year oscillation of climate seen since the last ice age, and that the sun could also add to the greenhouse warming of the next few centuries.

Would you care to see more?