The Davis-Monthan AFB UFO Incident -1952

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posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 06:33 PM
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Very interesting UFO incident over Davis Montham Air Force base in 1952 where two unknown objects flew alongside a B-36 bomber and were witnessed by the crew,an Air Intelligence officer and an airman on the ground.

The incident also involves a 'missing' report and another seemingly contrived USAF 'force fit' UFO explanation.



Case Briefing



Early in the 1952 UFO sighting wave two discs approached and paced a B-36 bomber in the vicinity of Davis-Monthan AFB, Tucson, Arizona. On May 1, 1952, Major Rudy Pestalozzi, a base intelligence officer, along with an airman, looked up as a B-36 flew overhead and saw two shiny discs overtake the bomber, slow to its speed and position themselves alongside.

The bomber crew, startled by the experience, made an unscheduled landing at the base and were interrogated at length by Major Pestalozzi, who happened to be the base UFO officer. Members of the flight crew had crowded into the starboard blister aft of the wing and looked down at a slight angle to see the closest disc, which was lens- or double-disc-shaped and about 20-25 feet in diameter. After about 20 seconds, the objects peeled off at an angle of 70-80 degrees from the flight path of the B-36 and sped away.

Major Pestalozzi sent a comprehensive report of the incident to Project Blue Book.






Excerpt from Richard Dolan's book 'UFOs and the National Security State':



The first day of the month set the tone,involving a classic case near Davis-Montham Air Force base, later investigated by Dr James Mcdonald, in which an Air intelligence officer,a B-36 crew,and an airman witnessed two shiny,round objects overtake their plane. The objects slowed down to match the plane's speed and remained in formation with them for about twenty seconds. At that point they made a very sharp no radius turn away from the B-36, flew away a bit, then one of the objects stopped and hovered. Both objects were silent.
The bluebook team dismissed the case as 'aircraft'






The case of the Missing report:


This case is a classic. The late Dr. James McDonald made a valiant attempt in get details from original witnesses after discovering that a major report, submitted to Blue Book by the “UFO Officer” (who was one of the witnesses!) at Davis-Monthan, was missing.

The following letter from Dr. McDonald dated July 14, 1966, was sent to Major Quintanilla, Blue Book head:



Dear Major Quintanilla:

Following our second unsuccessful effort to locate in the Blue Book files any record of the B-36 incident at Davis-Monthan AFB, I have asked Maj. Postalozzi to put down in a letter to me an account of such details as he can still remember with confidence..

He recalls filing a rather thick report on this B-36 case, the thickest he ever filed on a UFO. It included not only his own observations and those of the B-36 crew which he personally interrogated, but also that of an airman who was standing beside him during most of the time of his own observation...






Object description -eyewitness testimony



While standing on the front entrance steps of the Davis-Monthan Air Force Base Hospital, I observed the approach of two UFOs upon a B-36 flying on a general east-west heading directly over the base. The UFOs appeared, from the ground, to be round in shape and metallic in color. The objects approached the aircraft from the northeast at a speed about three or four times that of the aircraft.

The two objects appeared to be about the same size when first observed. One object appeared to gain altitude as it approached the aircraft because it seemed to grow smaller. It stationed itself, at the B-36 speed, just behind and to the port side of the B-36.

The objects were reported to be symmetrically convex top and bottom, about 10 or 12 feet thick from top to bottom at the middle and quite sharp at the edge. (The crew gave an appropriate figure in inches which I cannot remember.) The object was reported by the crew, as I remember, to be about 20 or 25 feet in diameter. (It fit rather snugly between spinners and elevator.)

Some of the air crew members reported seeing a pale band of red color about halfway between the top and the edge of the object.






USAF explanation.


The objects were 'aircraft'.






Links:

NICAP -The case of the Missing report

Davis-Monthan AFB, Tucson, Arizona (5-1-1952)

'UFOs and the National Security State'

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]




posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 06:24 AM
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Report Card:




Illustrations:






Links:

Bluebook Archive
www.nicap.org...



posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 01:05 PM
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Copy of Bluebook report - evaluation: 'aircraft'




Why do debunkers/UFO Cynics just mindlessly accept these USAF UFO explanations without a second look?

Is it because the explanations 'reinforce existing prejudices' or just because its too much effort?

Many of the USAF debunks are quite clearly concocted falsehoods yet it's amazing how certain folks nearly fall over themselves in an effort not to address them.

(rant over
)
edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 10:49 PM
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So UFOs are sighted and thus exist.
Yet we do not call them aircraft.
Seems strange.
ED: There is a video that the poster says was a
metallic craft yet the video shows a purple low
flying 'balloon'.
Some times bright and sometimes not.
The eye must hold any bright impulses while
the image capture relates to another input
of radiation.




[edit on 11/25/2009 by TeslaandLyne]

[edit on 11/25/2009 by TeslaandLyne]



posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 06:09 AM
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Originally posted by TeslaandLyne
So UFOs are sighted and thus exist.
Yet we do not call them aircraft.
Seems strange.


T+L, thanks for the reply -yes it appears the USAF would prefer to label certain objects involved in unexplained incidents as 'aircraft' - possibly as a handy way of massaging the figures for 'hot reports' and 'actual unknowns' - it also certainly can't hurt if a few reports go conveniently 'missing' or get 'lost' along the way.

Major Hector Quintanilla's name comes up again and again when looking into these seemingly contrived 'intellectualy dishonest' UFO explanations - his handling and treatment of many cases (including the Portage County incident) is highly questionable and, some would say, bordering on the criminaly negligent.

Kudos to Dr James E Mcdonald for harassing him on this one - we need more 'scientists with balls' like this guy and he is sorely missed.



"I recall that at the time Dr. McDonald was regarded by Blue Book personnel as an outstanding nuisance. This was partly because he was interested in a scientific study of the “true” UFOs (those that completely defied simple natural explanation) and partly because he was so outspoken."

Dr J. Allen Hynek
Link




As for Project Bluebook's agenda and motivations - this paragraph just about sums it up:


Blue Book Cooks Its Books


What was Blue Book in 1955? It was an organization that:

(1) claimed to be the sole repository of military UFO reports, but was not;

(2) was under orders to use any means necessary to identify UFOs as conventional objects, regardless of how strained the explanation became;

(3) intentionally misled the public with meaningless and even fictitious statistics; and

(4) had a barely breathing investigative capability.

The conclusion is self-evident: Blue Book was the mask worn by the Air Force for public viewing. Its UFO reports and evaluations – intellectually dishonest in the extreme – can therefore have no scientific value whatsoever. The fact that the U.S. military and other official sources continue to use them tells us more about the organizations than it does about UFOs.

Link


Cheers.


[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]



posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 11:10 AM
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reply to post by karl 12
 


excellent find karl 12 ,


this is a very interesting multiple witness UFO report and i admit i have never heard of it before so i appreciate the work you put into this. i would say this is another great example of how Major Quintanilla was doing whatever he could to cover up yet another important sighting and i agree with you that his actions did/are "bordering on the criminally negligent". that is something the debunkers have to ignore because they will never admit that proves there was a real concerted effort to hide the truth and dismiss all sightings with lame explanations.

even though Quintanilla was probably following orders i often wonder if he ever later in life regretted or had some remorse for what he did ?

i believe Hynek did since he confessed he was told to not rock the boat



S&F when you first posted it.



[edit on 26-11-2009 by easynow]



posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 11:38 AM
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reply to post by karl 12
 


These are the cases that people should focus on, the ones with all kinds of evidence and proper investigation (even if a force fit debunk was used, there was still some good evidence made available). I was reading a recent thread where someone stated that they were starting to believe all the skeptical explanations of UFOs, pretty much because disclosure hasn't happened yet. The thing is that people don't realize what real ufology is, it isn't all the Wilcox disclosure reports, GFL, etc... It is the analytical and evidential aspect of cases like this one and many, many more that show without a doubt (IMHO) that something is going on and that at least some could likely be explained by the ETH (extra-terrestrial hypothesis). Thanks for continuously bringing these great cases to our attention Karl, you are a real asset to this board. S/F...



posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 11:49 AM
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I was stationed at Davis-Montham in '82, and I've never heard of this incident.
Interesting report. Thanks for posting it. With so many witnesses, who are used to looking at aircraft, you'd think it would be more well known.

But, when it comes down to it, I guess it's just another sighting of something odd, with no way to know what it was or who was responsible.

Maybe someday...



posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 12:10 PM
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Originally posted by easynow
This is a very interesting multiple witness UFO report and i admit i have never heard of it before so i appreciate the work you put into this. i would say this is another great example of how Major Quintanilla was doing whatever he could to cover up yet another important sighting and i agree with you that his actions did/are "bordering on the criminally negligent".


Easynow-appreciate the reply.

You're not wrong about Major Quintanilla -I first came across his antics in your thread about the Portage County incident - it still amazes me that thread hasn't got about a thousand flags.

Theres some interesting reading at the link below about Major Quintanilla and even Dr Mcdonald goes as far to say he shouldn't be held accountable due to the fact that he's just following orders..




The Major Quintanilla era

Major Hector Quintanilla took over as Blue Book's leader in August 1963. He largely continued the debunking efforts, and it was under his direction that Blue Book received some of its sharpest criticism. UFO researcher Jerome Clark goes so far as to write that, by this time, Blue Book had "lost all credibility."

Physicist and UFO researcher Dr. James E. McDonald once flatly declared that Quintanilla was "not competent" from either a scientific or an investigative perspective. However, McDonald also stressed that Quintanilla "shouldn't be held accountable for it", as he was chosen for his position by a superior officer, and was following orders in directing Blue Book.

Blue Book’s explanations of UFO reports were not universally accepted, however, and critics — including some scientists — suggested that Project Blue Book was engaged in questionable research or, worse, perpetrating cover up. This criticism grew especially strong and widespread in the 1960s.

en.wikipedia.org...




..Dr Hyneck wasn't quite so sympathetic though:



He held Quintanilla in especially low regard: "Quintanilla's method was simple: disregard any evidence that was counter to his hypothesis." Hynek wrote that during Air Force Major Hector Quintanilla's tenure as Blue Book's director, “the flag of the utter nonsense school was flying at its highest on the mast.” Hynek reported that Sergeant David Moody, one of Quintanilla’s subordinates, “epitomized the conviction-before-trial method. Anything that he didn’t understand or didn’t like was immediately put into the psychological category, which meant ‘crackpot’.”

en.wikipedia.org...








Originally posted by easynow
...that is something the debunkers have to ignore because they will never admit that proves there was a real concerted effort to hide the truth and dismiss all sightings with lame explanations.



I'd have to completely agree with you there - there have been some extremely serious questions raised about many of the USAF UFO 'explanations' - here are just some of the incidents:




Questionable USAF debunks


The Exeter UFO Sightings,1965.


The RB-47 radar/visual incident,1957.


The Redmond Oregon UFO Incident.


The Dayton UFO incident,1950.


The Portage County incident.


The Chorwon incident, Korea, 1952.


The SwissAir 127 UFO incident.


The Las Vegas UFO Crash,1962.


The Goose Bay incident,Labrador 1948.


The Ryan/Neff UFO incident,New York State,1956.


The Levelland UFO sighting wave,1957.


The White Sands Jeep Patrol Incident.


The Red Bluff UFO incident,1960.


Cheers.

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]



posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 01:05 PM
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reply to post by karl 12
 



hey thanks for the Hynek info , i didn't know he said this...lol


“the flag of the utter nonsense school was flying at its highest on the mast.”


that's funny but at the same time it's not

at least we have some testimony from him about what really went on then. i wonder if anyone has tried to find or get that investigative report they did on this Davis-Monthan case. why aren't the ufologists or Mufon demanding to see it and working together to get it released ? same thing with the photo from Portage county case. (not sure why more people don't find that one interesting)

did they put this stuff in the shredder or is it filed away somewhere ? i know , i know , too many questions but you would think because this is all from the 50's and 60's it would be declassified by now. of course they can just say it's still classified because it's a threat to national security.


well anyways thanks again for the great thread
and this case is another very good one among the many that happened during the UFO flap of the 50's.



The 1952 Sighting Wave
Radar-Visual Sightings Establish UFOs
As A Serious Mystery

www.nicap.org...


[edit on 26-11-2009 by easynow]



posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 02:06 PM
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reply to post by jkrog08
 


Jkrog,thanks for the reply (and the kind words) - you're certainly right about the importance of focusing on cases which already have prior investigation and established evidence - I think NICAP has done a wonderful job of cataloging and collating the facts and documentation surrounding a great many unexplained UFO incidents down the years.

I also think Dr James E. Mcdonald played a huge role in the objective research of the subject - he also debunked quite a few debunkers on the way.


Below is a great letter sent by Dr Mcdonald to Major Quintanilla regarding missing evidence in the Davis-Montham case - it also makes mention of another UFO incident (which seems to have disappeared into history) in which a park ranger and his wife were driving along in their jeep only to have a UFO pass overhead and blow the ranger's hat off.









www.nicap.org...


Cheers.

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]



posted on Nov, 26 2009 @ 02:57 PM
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Originally posted by easynow
hey thanks for the Hynek info , i didn't know he said this...lol


“the flag of the utter nonsense school was flying at its highest on the mast.”


that's funny but at the same time it's not



Easynow - thought you might like that one.


One of Hyneck's best quips has to be right at the very end of this video -you had it as your sig
for a while and its a classic.



Thread









Originally posted by easynow
I wonder if anyone has tried to find or get that investigative report they did on this Davis-Monthan case. why aren't the ufologists or Mufon demanding to see it and working together to get it released ? same thing with the photo from Portage county case. (not sure why more people don't find that one interesting)



Have no idea bud, according to Major Pestalozzi the file was a very large one - seems strange they should have lost it.


"He recalls filing a rather thick report on this B-36 case, the thickest he ever filed on a UFO."
Link


As for the Portage County photographs, well I'd give my eye teeth to see those - all the hot evidence is probably stored in a Deep Underground Military Base somewhere.








Originally posted by easynow
..this case is another very good one among the many that happened during the UFO flap of the 50's.


The 1952 Sighting Wave
Radar-Visual Sightings Establish UFOs
As A Serious Mystery

www.nicap.org...



Thats a great link - 1952 was a huge year for unexplained UFO incidents - glad they included the Operation Mainbrace reports.

Theres another NICAP list here of Project Bluebook 'actual unknowns' -just look how many occur in 1952.

Cheers.

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]



posted on Nov, 27 2009 @ 05:03 AM
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reply to post by easynow
 


Interesting U.S. Government document:


The Bolender Memo:


"Moreover,reports of unidentified flying objects which could affect national security are made in accordance with JANAP 146 or Air Force manual 55-11,and are not part of the Blue Book system."


Link (pdf):
www.nicap.org...



posted on Nov, 27 2009 @ 10:36 AM
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reply to post by karl 12
 


thanks for the vid , that is a funny line from Hynek ain't it ?...lol


if you want to see a flying saucer just goose the waitress !


something tells me he has seen a few flying saucers




Have no idea bud, according to Major Pestalozzi the file was a very large one - seems strange they should have lost it.
"He recalls filing a rather thick report on this B-36 case, the thickest he ever filed on a UFO."
www.nicap.org...
As for the Portage County photographs, well I'd give my eye teeth to see those - all the hot evidence is probably stored in a Deep Underground Military Base somewhere.


i wouldn't think anyone lost any files or evidence and i am willing to bet you are correct about them being stored in some safe place not accessible to the public. the question is , why are we not demanding they be released ?

and thanks for the links to the 1600+ reports. i am always amazed when i read about all these ufo sightings during the 50's and 60's. there were so many it's mind boggling and these are the ones mostly from Blue Book files. as we can see from the Bolender Memo not all of the cases are known to us. that factoid proves they are not telling us everything.

the ironic thing about them shutting down Blue Book is they said the reason was because the reports had not added any useful data and was a waste of resources ! but we know from the document you posted that the important cases were not even part of Blue Book and Hynek even said Blue Book was more or less a joke...

“the flag of the utter nonsense school was flying at its highest on the mast.”

so it's no surprise they didn't get anything from the Blue Book reports that would prove anything concrete because the whole thing was a white wash and just a public relations gimmic.


i think Mufon is the same thing only disguised as a private entity.



posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 05:39 PM
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reply to post by easynow
 


Easynow,couldn't agree more matey - if UFO incidents which could affect national security were not part of the Bluebook system then which system were they a part of.


Theres some very interesting reading in this pdf file about Project Bluebook -its a bit of a long read but well worth saving for a rainy day.

I Remember Blue Book - Jennie Zeidman (pdf)

Cheers.



posted on Nov, 30 2009 @ 06:01 PM
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Originally posted by easynow
As we can see from the Bolender Memo not all of the cases are known to us.

That factoid proves they are not telling us everything.


Easynow - indeed they were not.

There is some very interesting reading at the link below concerning the special unit of the 4602d Air Intelligence Service Squadron (AISS) operating out of Langley, Virginia.

Link:
www.nicap.org...

Cheers.



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 07:21 AM
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Originally posted by subject x
I was stationed at Davis-Montham in '82, and I've never heard of this incident.


Subject X,thanks for the reply - maybe the fact that you've never heard of the incident is a testament to how hard the USAF works to bury their 'actual unknown' reports.

Theres an interesting article here on Blue Book Special Report 14 -apparently there was an extra 1000 unexplained 'hot incident' reports which went conveniently missing along the way:



Special Bluebook Report Number 14 (Declassified - 1955). This report consisted of a detailed analysis of UFO reports received by the Air Force from 1947 through 1952. The press release of the report contained a brief synopsis of reports received in early 1955. This was a good report, but the Air Force deliberately tried to mislead the public. The report actually showed that 21.5% of the sightings were unknowns. However, the first page of the report contains the press release which stated that only 3% percent of the sightings were unknowns. (This only represented reports received in early 1955 and not reports in the actual study which covered 1947-1952.) The Air Force also tried to weight the report by removing astronomical phenomena from the study. This had an effect of showing that known and unknown sightings were more similar (using characteristics such as color, speed, number of objects, aerial maneuvers etc.) However, dropping astronomical phenomena didn't much difference in the outcome of the report, but it illustrates how the Air Force was trying to deceive the public. In other words the Air Force didn't appear to want the public to know the results of there own study of UFOs.It is also worthy of noting that Air Force Blue Book recorded 2,344 sightings in the 1947 through 1952 time period. Special Report Number 14 said that the Air Force recorded 3,201 reports. This is nearly one thousand more reports than listed by Blue Book. Where did the extra reports come from? Many suspect that these reports were collected by the 4602 AISS and that only reports which had more mundane explanations ever reached Blue Book.

www.ufosnw.com...


Cheers.


[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 09:08 AM
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Obviously the observers are in error since UFOs cannot be more than fuzzy lights in the sky and by definition refuse identification as artificial vehicles of any kind.

UFO believers let their imagination run rampant, for crying out loud. How anyone can connect such a sighting to possible ET visitation is beyond logic. Preposterous.




posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 05:18 PM
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Originally posted by jclmavg
Obviously the observers are in error since UFOs cannot be more than fuzzy lights in the sky and by definition refuse identification as artificial vehicles of any kind.

UFO believers let their imagination run rampant, for crying out loud. How anyone can connect such a sighting to possible ET visitation is beyond logic. Preposterous.



Yes indeedy - the sheer audacity of certain individuals to presume that unknown flying objects which exhibit electromagnetic effects on other aircraft and are visualy corellated on multiple radar screens displaying completely unprecedented flight characteristics and aerial manouverability may represent something out of the ordinary is an absolute travesty and a big slap in the face to common sense.



posted on Dec, 21 2009 @ 05:54 PM
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Originally posted by karl 12
Yes indeedy - the sheer audacity of certain individuals to presume that unknown flying objects which exhibit electromagnetic effects on other aircraft and are visualy corellated on multiple radar screens displaying completely unprecedented flight characteristics and aerial manouverability may represent something out of the ordinary is an absolute travesty and a big slap in the face to common sense.


I would go with "something out of the ordinary." But logically, there's really no way to connect Point A (the thing) to Point B (ET aliens). No way at all that I can see. Not without additional information.

At the moment, we don't have any conclusion to which we can jump.





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