Big-Phama : The most immoral of them all.

Hi ATS, I hope you can stay with me and add your comments too!

I was reading up on the people making money from the Swine Flu Pandemic, top of the list were the drug companies. Corporations like Gilead, Roche, GSK and Baxter were all given dishonourable mentions (with distinction!).

Stirring in the recesses of my head was the notion that free enterprise and capitalism are good, necessary and desired. Someone has to profit. No profit no investment, no investment no research and development, no R&D no new technologies or advances in science. Advances that make our lives a better place.

Well documented and researched is the take over of government and infiltration of policy makers by Big Corporation. Wall Street, Big Oil and others have exerted pressure on the democratic process, lobbying has put the concerns of the business world before the concerns of the population of the world.

All widely documented, nothing new there.

In my eyes, Swine Flu has raised the stakes a touch. I can understand oil companies stifling new technologies that don't require fossil fuels. When the GM bailout was completed, along with the TARP program there was a real need for those measures. However unfair the bailout seemed, it was understandable. However Swine Flu is different.

From the outset this Pandemic has struck a chord with the more enlightened and less easily fooled members of ATS. When it first appeared in Mexico we believed it was a contrived situation. When the Media began to report the gradual spread of the disease we highlighted the panic caused by fanning the flames of fear and dread. We noted reports of huge predicted (not just projected) profits from Big-Pharma and confirmation of immunity for the companies if their vaccines caused injury or death. We noted as the Vaccine was rushed through to deal with a perceived threat pushed down our throats by the main stream media, themselves raking in huge profits from this influenza catastrophe.

Flash forward to the current situation, we find glaringly different reports from Eastern Europe and the USA on the emergence of haemorrhagic flu, of lungs black with blood and the spraying of helpless populations with goodness knows what!

I think that they have gone too far this time. To make huge profits, I mean billions of dollars from a preplanned and intentional disease is as grotesque as the concentration camps of the Third Reich. As sickening as Dr Josef Mengele performing his twisted Eugenics and "science" experiments on the unfortunate people he tortured. To profit from the death and suffering of another living being through a disease that they are responsible for is quite frankly, beyond comprehension.

I don't believe that Big-Pharma and our government has released this pandemic to kill us off, no it is afar more sinister and disgusting conpsiracy. I believe that it is a money making exercise, am enterprise in profit dreamt up by those with one foot in the boardrooms of the these massive corporations and the other encamped in the halls of World Governments.

Big-Pharma has proved that combining the sick with business is an immoral and hideous marriage. One that can only spell suffering for the innocents of this planet. I hope that in the future, we as a species are enlightened enough to divorce profit from disease, rendering these captains of industry (but pirates of humankind) irrelevant, as surely as their dark souls are.

Peace to you all ATS....

Sources:
Opinion: Could Swine Flu be a money-making conspiracy?
Who is making a profit from swine flu?
ATS

Amen! Personally, I reject pharmaceuticals when Doctor's try to push them on me and ask about natural remedies. You can guess how well that goes over. There is too much money to be made from pushing so-called "treatments" on people that are usually worse than the original complaint. Look at the side effects for any medicine you may have lying around the house and see what you find. Big Pharma is actively engaged in rushing products through the F.D.A (only to have them recalled later), suppressing natural medicines (so that they can synthesize them), and pushing poison. Try Googling "Rick Simpson", a Canadian with a possible cure for cancer, and see what you find.

I have to agree... this is an insideous crime that has holocaust level horror written all over it. My concern is how far are these criminals willing to go, and how many lives will pay the price before their fat blood wallets are full enough?

Something tells me this is still the calm before the storm.

not all big pharma is bad.. speaking from experience try having a herniated disc in your back and experience pain so intense you feel blood is going to start pouring from your eyes and you become suicidal. Then take some diazepam and codeine and feel no pain.. it then allows you to engage in physio as a more natural solution. This could go on for pages.. many pharmaceuticals end suffering for millions. They are not all evil and there happen to be many scientists working at big pharmas that are great people. Yeah it sucks that it is so profit focused and has a seedy side, but what in this world doesn't? Even the "natural" remedy companies are multi-billion dollar industries with an agenda.

[edit on 24-11-2009 by reasonable]

I fully agree. Given current events what I find absolutely hilarious is the lemmings who have yet to embrace the notion that their governments might not be all that benevolent. And so they tow the line about how we need healthcare reform and since the dastardly Republicans lack a plan, Obama and Pelosi are our best option. But what is healthcare reform?
Even if they do the "option" thing and being insured isn't mandatory, the Pharma elephant is still in the room. Alas, many IGNORANT Americans cant even see it. They have no idea the FDA and these companies that thrive on your health, or lock thereof, might be a component to healthcare worth reforming. But Nah... Obama will slay the dragons and will leave us with Healthcare from the heavens. Laughable.

If Big-Pharm doesn't have any big objections to the Democrats' healthcare reform something is wrong with it.

reply to post by reasonable

Good point. I think with Big-Pharm, Big-Ag, etc and the new ClimateGate scandal we're seeing more and more how much a company or researcher(s) can pervert science to their advantage. And as a humanity, we should maybe start addressing this.
But yes pills can be very nice.

reply to post by reasonable


Yea, there ok, but why does it cost them 25 cents to make a pill, and they turn around and sell it for 400 dollars.


My 1 month prescription to Lamaictal for my epilepsy, is 400 DOLLARS A MONTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

reply to post by Truzzyx


Because research and drug approval costs 100s of millions to billions.

reply to post by YouAreDreaming


I agree with you, I think with this Swine flu they have oversteped the mark, but like some criminals, once the line has been crossed it's easier to do it again - and the crime escalates!

Goodness knows what they could do next!

Originally posted by thumper666
Amen! Personally, I reject pharmaceuticals when Doctor's try to push them on me and ask about natural remedies. You can guess how well that goes over. There is too much money to be made from pushing so-called "treatments" on people that are usually worse than the original complaint. Look at the side effects for any medicine you may have lying around the house and see what you find. Big Pharma is actively engaged in rushing products through the F.D.A (only to have them recalled later), suppressing natural medicines (so that they can synthesize them), and pushing poison. Try Googling "Rick Simpson", a Canadian with a possible cure for cancer, and see what you find.

Will check that out soon, and thanks.

I once had a chat with a doctor who told me that in Private, GPs were quite for homoeopathic remedies, but the Health Services (Government) imposed strict penalties on Drs that push for their use.

Makes you wonder hm!?

Originally posted by Moonsouljah

If Big-Pharm doesn't have any big objections to the Democrats' healthcare reform something is wrong with it.

That is a very telling point, there must be something in it for them otherwise they'd have to be dragged screaming to the gates of reform!

Originally posted by reasonable
not all big pharma is bad.. speaking from experience try having a herniated disc in your back and experience pain so intense you feel blood is going to start pouring from your eyes and you become suicidal. Then take some diazepam and codeine and feel no pain.. it then allows you to engage in physio as a more natural solution. This could go on for pages.. many pharmaceuticals end suffering for millions. They are not all evil and there happen to be many scientists working at big pharmas that are great people. Yeah it sucks that it is so profit focused and has a seedy side, but what in this world doesn't? Even the "natural" remedy companies are multi-billion dollar industries with an agenda.

[edit on 24-11-2009 by reasonable]

That is very true, I do agree in part that pharmaceutical companies are a necessary evil. Of course they do some good, but in this instance (Re Swine Flu) I am sincerely of the opinion this is a contrived leak of a virus with the only desired result of raking in some big piles of cash!

Just my opinion of course!

Star and flag!
Anyone who trusts big pharma completely, deserves what they get.
Hopefully it means getting better
Usually it just involves eventually becoming even sicker, more dependant
on pills and always increasingly more expensive!

Interesting how most patentable drugs are derived from unpatentable sources!
250$ for a celebrex prescription that I can get in mexico for 20$?
C'mon. Can you say "thats criminal"?

The healthiest and best medicines grow right in your yard!
Wouldn't it just figure no one probably knows what I am talking about?
And most are probably rolling their eyes about right now.
Thats how well big pharma controls your health.

Peoples take their most important posession (their health)
and trust it to someone else with profit as an agenda! Amazing.
Good luck with that if you must!
I suggest reading a book, namely "Back to Eden".
Get control of what should be your most prized possesion.
Without your health what do you really have?
Death?

reply to post by dodadoom


Cheers, the way I see it is that the vast percentage of drugs and treatments are derived from chemicals or processes found in the natural world.

They want you to think that they are the only ones that can help, but the truth is in their big labs they have scientists taking ideas from mother nature and synthesizing the same chemicals!

reply to post by kiwifoot


The most disgusting part about it is, its all about the money,
and not about better health!
They dont want you completely better, for it takes away the repeat business!
There is a reason it's called the health care INDUSTRY.
Great stuff Kiwi as always!

Originally posted by kiwifoot
Big-Pharma has proved that combining the sick with business is an immoral and hideous marriage. One that can only spell suffering for the innocents of this planet.

Amen! Mammon (the god of wealth & greed) is a jealous god, one that demands human sacrifice; Take note that many people will have to die before the living fear the disease so much as to hand over their money, just to survive.

I don't consider myself any kind of preacher (because I disdain ORGANIZED religions), but some religious tenants do hold truth if you know how to see it. Such as the proverb, "Love of money is the root of all evil." It's not to say that money & wealth itself is evil...Evil comes when someone loves money more than loving his/her fellow human beings.

Originally posted by thumper666
Personally, I reject pharmaceuticals when Doctor's try to push them on me and ask about natural remedies. You can guess how well that goes over.

I don't have to guess, brother (Or would that be "sister?" It's hard to tell on the internet). The best reply I got from the doctor is to seek out an herbalist; But the doctor couldn't even give me any specific recommendations for an Herbalist. Also, guess what is NOT covered under insurance plans?

Originally posted by kiwifoot
I once had a chat with a doctor who told me that in Private, GPs were quite for homoeopathic remedies, but the Health Services (Government) imposed strict penalties on Drs that push for their use.

That's "hitting the nail on the thumb." I reserve my twisting of the common phrase for describing the painfully obvious...
Guess from where originates the pressure on the government to levy such penalties on doctors?...You guessed it! Big Pharma! There are a few retired doctors who have written books about the benefits of natural cures & remedies, if you care to look for such books. Just Scroogle for "natural cures," "natural remedies" & "homeopathic medicine" (Scroogle uses Google search, but sloughs off the cookies that Google would put on your computer for their data-mining). Those doctor-authors retired before publishing those books because the government would have slapped their wrists hard, if they had written those books while still engaging in an active medical practice.

Originally posted by reasonable
not all big pharma is bad.. speaking from experience try having a herniated disc in your back and experience pain so intense you feel blood is going to start pouring from your eyes and you become suicidal. Then take some diazepam and codeine and feel no pain.. it then allows you to engage in physio as a more natural solution.

I do agree that pharma can be good...If used for a specific purpose & applied in a responsible manner. But far too often, what could be good winds up twisted when the path of greed is walked. Just like the phrase, "Guns don't kill people. People kill people" states that every person must be responsible for the actions they take, Big Pharma should also heed that same responsibility for their own actions.

Originally posted by Moonsouljah
I fully agree. Given current events what I find absolutely hilarious is the lemmings who have yet to embrace the notion that their governments might not be all that benevolent.

The US Founding Forefathers had it right when they described "government" as a necessary evil; "Necessary" because people need an organization to help manage certain day-to-day duties, such as defense from invasion, conducting trade with foreign nations & the enforcement/arbitration of Just Law when people have a beef between each other; "Evil" because the Founding Forefathers were well-educated & knew that history has proven time & time again that governments will always seek to turn against the people by growing too large & ursurping control over everything.

For a good example, most US Government Officers spout out rhetoric about "upholding Democracy" & "the spread of Democracy"...But all along, they act in Breech of Oath of Office under the Constitution because it tells them that they must guarantee a Republican form of government! Refer to Article 4, Section 4
By that Breech of Oath, the Law states that they have instantly self-revoked all Powers & Authorities granted to their Office; After that first Actin in Breech of Oath, anything they continue to do or say in the name of that Office is a Crime & they have become nothing less than imposters to Lawfully Elected/Appointed Government Officials. So, speaking earlier about how Big Pharma should take heed of the responsibility for their actions, it seems the government should be doing the same.

Thomas Jefferson has been quoted to say, "Of all my study of history, most bad government is the result of too big of a government."

reply to post by MidnightDStroyer


I appreciate your reply MDS.

The last segment does however leave the US in a bit of a quandary. We all agree that the combination of profit and health is not the most desired situation, but from your reply (which I agree with ) a bloated government is also not the way to go!

So giving the current situation in the US with health care reform, how do you see it?

If you were POTUS for the next 4 years, which way would you go?

Is it a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation?

All the best mate, Kiwifoot!

At the end of the day, there's only two ways to view big pharma.

1. The love you and care for you tremendously.

2. They are motivated by money.

If I was a CEO of a big pharma company, and was motivated by money and shareholder pressure, I would design my products so my customers keep coming back.

Let's face it. It they invented a magic pill that would eliminate all diseases and illnesses, they would patent it and never use it.

reply to post by kiwifoot


Great points.

There are definitely profit motivations that have been in play well before any swine flu 'pandemic' appeared on the scene. And I agree with you in that the level of disregard is at an all time high.

I've put up this video to demonstrate the lengths to which it's now gone. In my opinion these disease incentives will spell disaster.

www.disclose.tv...

Originally posted by kiwifoot
Big-Pharma has proved that combining the sick with business is an immoral and hideous marriage. One that can only spell suffering for the innocents of this planet. I hope that in the future, we as a species are enlightened enough to divorce profit from disease, rendering these captains of industry (but pirates of humankind) irrelevant, as surely as their dark souls are.

Thank you for this! I have been beating this drum with my family and friends for years.

Invariably someone suggests that, if we divorce profit from it, there will be no money or incentive for research. On one level I get that but do we lack so much creativity or imagination that we can't develop a new structural mechanism to encourage research and development? I mean it goes on in other areas of science without such outrageous financial reward.

Their partner in crime is insurance companies. They are a barrier to good health that stands between patients and doctors and they aid and abet the the extortion that is Big Pharma. Together they form a vampire-like system that feeds off of our suffering.

Good health care for its citizens should be the goal of any civilized nation. As long as health care is associated with "for profit" industries like Big Pharma and insurance, there will be conflict of interests, waste, fraud, abuse and overall poor health care.