ISP owners could face jail under child porn bill

ISP owners could face jail under child porn bill

www.cbc.ca

The federal government introduced legislation on Tuesday requiring internet service providers to notify authorities of any reports of child pornography or face fines and possible imprisonment.
"A mandatory reporting regime across Canada will improve law enforcement's ability to detect offences and help reduce the availability of online pornography, facilitate the rescue of victims and help identify and apprehend offenders,"

Punishments for sole proprietorship ISPs would range from fines of $1,000 to up to $10,000, or six months imprisonment. For corporations, fines would range from $10

(visit the link for the full news article)

I am actually a little suprised that this is only happeneing now, that being said i applaud the move made. Of course i dont think there are any level headed people in the world who knowingly condone or support child pornography but the effort to eliminate a faction of society that they do not want to even consider may not have been present.
With the added assault on the wallets and possible prison terms it will create more attention, resources, and active counter measures to help eliminate this sick practice.

The counter to this argument is the censorship, I am adimentally against censorship in any form which unfortunatly this falls into. I know this is being discussed and debated alot in my country as to what this may open the doors to as far as censorship is concerned, but in a scenario such as Child porn one can see the merits in penalizing those involved.

The censorship debate i pass to you all, does this set a precedent that could lead down a dangerous road? Or is it a necessary penalization for an inhumane practice?



www.cbc.ca
(visit the link for the full news article)

reply to post by Hack28


It always starts by protecting the children.

Of course child pornography is bad, and it's good to report it. My worry is how much leeway this will give them to monitor us for other things.

reply to post by Seiko


I know eh, its the double edged sword. They always start with the things that no-one will debate or be against such as Child Porn. Than its something that 90% of people are offended by like hate speech that gets monitored and inch by inch whatever is deemed as offensive to a certain amount of people will be monitored or censored.
I am from Canada the land of if it offends one person no one can enjoy it.
So id like to take this time to wish everyone a Happy Holiday Season, hope you enjoy gifts under your Festive Bush. Yes we actually call it a festive bush in public outlets.

I will allow my privacy to take a back seat to dealing with child porn any day my friends.

Sorry but these children should come first and our paranoid conspiracie theories second.

Canada has done a lot of the past 10 years to curve the ever growing trend of child pornography on off shore servers through ISP's that don't take responsibility for the content that they host.

This is good, people who host the internet need to be held accountable for the information which they allow others to browse. Yes it's a matter of censorship on some level and yes it will probably lead to some spying scandal down the road.

But even if one person is caught and thrown in jail for having, making or viewing child porn, that's one less A-hole which can hurt my children.

~Keeper

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Thats my exact stance on the issue, well said. On this occasion i dont think those people deserve to breathe, much less privacy.

reply to post by Hack28


I dont support porn but i do support rights on the internet to me this doesn't sound like its a good move , and i cant believe some of you guys you are actually going to support this, and yet you both said (government is bad or this is bad)


This move is a bit closer to a big brother state in canada.

I wonder why all this talk on child porn what about adult porn? if you ask me there is more crime into the adult porn industry, if you dont like whats on the net, don't click on it, forget it about and move on, same thing goes about pirated stuff on the net.


you got to remember folks these same people who are pushing for this bill are these same people that have pushed for H1N1 vaccines and of cruse a new world order.

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
reply to post by Hack28

 

I dont support porn but i do support rights on the internet to me this doesn't sound like its a good move , and i cant believe some of you guys you are actually going to support this, and yet you both said (government is bad or this is bad)

I support anything that protects my children from child predators. People who indulge in child pornography are either hurting children already or are at risk of doing so.

I wonder why all this talk on child porn what about adult porn? if you ask me there is more crime into the adult porn industry, if you dont like whats on the net, don't click on it, forget it about and move on, same thing goes about pirated stuff on the net.

What? I have no quams with the adult porn industry, and no there isn't more crime in there. Let me tell you why. How many CHILDREN consent to having an adult molest or rape them for a video being distributed to other perverts all around the world?

I thought so..

you got to remember folks these same people who are pushing for this bill are these same people that have pushed for H1N1 vaccines and of cruse a new world order.

And this has nothing to do with either of those things. This is about holding people accountable for their content. It's not about big brother, it's about curbing a very REAL threat to our children.

~Keeper

[edit on 11/24/2009 by tothetenthpower]

How exactly are they supposed monitor their customers and their content? Packet sniffing? Who is going to pay the extra fees that come from this?

you'd have to be a real idiot to log into one of those sites ... I had a friend I went to college with, he went to work for the US customs as one of their tech people investigating Internet crimes...

He's told me stories how the Russian mafia will set up these sites...kiddie sex.. anyway their not about kiddie porn they steal your credit card numbers and any other personal info they can get and sell your identity on the black market. I was told they target kiddie porn because their victims wont call the cops...

As to charging an ISP I don't see how they could make that stick... an ISP is not a hosting service a law like this would be thrown out on its first challenge

So, the "adult" population that enjoy "adult porno" will be also monitored to make sure that they do not fall into one of the "government shadow shady site that lure the "sicks" in society looking for child pornography.

Oops sorry but you clink to it or better say hijacked and now you are guilty, you sick bastards.

I love the way government likes to step on anybody privacies in the name of for the sake the littler children.

I hate the fact that the evil TPTB are doing something I wholehartedly support.
Hate it, hate, it, hate it!

The abuse of children involved in this cannot be ignored.
The argument that person viewing the kiddieporn had nothing to do with the original abuse cannot be accepted. They support the abuse with their money.

ANYONE who enjoys looking at this garbage needs to be thrown in a pit and forgotten.
Those that make it need to hanged, then drawn & quartered ala Braveheart.

I hate the fact that TPTB are using this issue to encroach on our freedoms of speech. They are giving us something we desperately need and which NO SANE person could argue against in order to further their nefarious agenda.

Hate it, hate, it, hate it!



[edit on 24-11-2009 by FortAnthem]

From what I have heard, it's the police agencies supplying a great deal of the kiddie porn in the first place - to 'trap' people. I think this new law, the virus (that really FUN one that d/l porn onto your computer by the container ship full), and the sudden concerns about child porn on the internet are a carefully laid smokescreen so the usual slimes can further a secret agenda.

The thing that sends my hackles up is just the 'suddeness' of it all one one huge lump.

Sometimes I got to mp3 sites and a pop up comes up
I guess it's a pop up of porn
it says young teens 18yrs old or something
but dear god sometimes they look way younger.. wayyyyy younger

as soon as that pop up appears I immediately close it and worry afterwards.

I don't know how but somehow they need to get to the root of the problem.

When are they going to get that .xxx domain?
these things should not be on .coms only .xxx sites.

and everything .xxx I just block it, it's THAT SIMPLE!!!!

For ISPs however, too long did they do nothing, it's time for them to get some scare tactics, child porn is an unnacepable reality of society and it must be dealt with ASAP

I am going to leave a counter argument that actually gives reason why child pornography on the internet, while a horrible thing, is sort of necessary.

Think of it like this. If there was no child pornography then there would be no way to know which children were being abused. We would not have any evidence or clues to let us know more about who the abuser could be. Child pornography pictures are a valuable asset to any law enforcement team in identifying who the sick bastard is.

Now, lets say child pornography is no longer able to be seen anywhere. Yes.. its good that nobody will ever have to worry about their child being abused and having their picture online for all sickos to see. But, will that actually stop these children from being abused? No way in hell. These pictures at times are some of the only proof we have of certain children being abused, of certain people doing the abusing, or also certain locations that may be seen in the picture can be used to find out where it is occurring. This is evidence that sometimes is required to help save a child, or to get their face out there in the news and in the paper to help find them.

By stopping child pornography on the internet, that does NOT stop these people from abusing the children. The only thing it does is not allow some sicko to get his jollies off. I'm sorry, but some guy masturbating does not effect me as much as the fact that some child is being abused somewhere. That will NOT stop, and stopping pictures on the internet will have no effect on the people doing the abusing.

Child pornography is one of the most common ways these children are found. It is also how many of these sick bastards are found out as well. Without such evidence and ways to find out who is doing what, think of all the children who may have been found through a picture online.. they possibly may still have been being abused right now.

I dont have all the answers, and nor does anyone else. But I do know that many children are SAVED because these pictures are out there. I wish this was something we didn't have to worry about in this world. NOBODY should have to worry about that happening to their child. But this is a horrible world we live in.. and without evidence and clues to catch these bastards.. they will keep on abusing children... the only thing we can hope for then is for each and every one of them sickos to be run over by a truck.

Hopefully this makes some sense to those who read it. I am totally against child pornography, but I do know that it is used quite often to solve the crimes and to find the children. Without it.. them children would still be out there...

You have to actually commit a crime against someone's privacy for the ISP to find out whether or not they are downloading child porn. Therefore any ISP who does report a child porn incident probably should go to prison right along side the person they reported.

Also, one of the most ridiculous ideas pervading the world today is that someone deserves to be severely punished for have a series of pixels on their monitor in a way that offends others. Its absolutely insane. There is simply no way that pixels colored in a certain way could possibly mean the person looking at them deserves to be punished. Or that if someone has their 1's and 0's in a certain order on their hard drive they should be put to death or even hit with a wooden spoon a couple times.

I'm sorry but their is no possible arrangement of pixels on a screen imaginable that make the viewer deserve punishment. Crimes actually need a victim before someone is punished. I have no doubt the guy who makes the child pose for the photos deserves to be punished because there is an actual real victim involved and there is a crime involved. But the picture itself isn't a crime or in point of fact police would be the biggest most horrible criminals in the world because they no doubt have the biggest child pornography collection in their evidence lockers. A picture is just a bunch of colors mixed together and if someone is offended by one that is their own problem and the solution is not to take a copy rather than punish others for the victimless crime.

Personally I don't find young children attractive... I never have and I never will. But if someone does so long as they are just looking and never touching then everything is just fine. Child pornography is a THOUGHT CRIME and I happened to be someone who does not believe in thought crimes... so as far as I'm concerned there is no crime there. In point of fact police do look at child porn themselves in the process of convicting child porn cases, proving that looking at child porn in and of itself is not really a criminal act nor should it be.

The crime is forcing the child to pose for the photograph and that is the part that needs to be punished, not any other part of it!

reply to post by truthquest


Wow you are a twisted human being if you think that looking at child porn is ok, because you didn't actually commit the crime of making the child pose that way.

WTF kind of thinking is that? You are just as accountable for your actions. You are LOOKING for abused children on the internet. And trust me they are ALL abused.

What's to stop you from going out, kidnapping a child and commiting the crime yourself? It's obviously something you don't see a problem with.

Come on now, it's nothing to do with colored pixels. They aren't talking about Manga or Hentai, these are REAL children who are having their lives destroyed by people like you who say : "ohh it's no big deal, we should get to watch it, but I didn't do it so I can't get in trouble."

You are gaining from somebody's misguided sense of attraction and sickness. Shame on you.

Also possesion of child porn is a crime....

~Keeper

[edit on 11/24/2009 by tothetenthpower]

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
I will allow my privacy to take a back seat to dealing with child porn any day my friends.

Sorry but these children should come first and our paranoid conspiracie theories second.

....

But even if one person is caught and thrown in jail for having, making or viewing child porn, that's one less A-hole which can hurt my children.

I couldn't have said it better.

I like my privacy but I do nothing that I would be ashamed to have seen.

The penalty mentioned seems a little lenient though.

Originally posted by truthquest

But the picture itself isn't a crime or in point of fact police would be the biggest most horrible criminals in the world because they no doubt have the biggest child pornography collection in their evidence lockers. A picture is just a bunch of colors mixed together and if someone is offended by one that is their own problem and the solution is not to take a copy rather than punish others for the victimless crime.

Possession of controlled substances and illegal weapons are severely punishable. Any evidence locker with have a large amount of both.

We don't send the police to jail for having heroine and fully automatic rifles when it's evidence. Why would pornography involving children be treated any different as evidence?

It seems that most of the controversy here is really not about child pornography. I don't think anybody thinks 1) it is a good thing or 2) it is not a really horrible crime.

The issue is whether it is advisable holding internet sites responsible for their content and providing some consequences for them IF it is found to violate community standards and "local laws." I put these last two words in quotes to remind people that the Internet is local only is a very special and limited sense. If this happens in Canada, but the physical equipment hosting the site is in Zimbabwe or Sweden or Shangri La, and the owners are somewhere else, and the content providers are even further away, what are the unforseen issues? It could be a rogue nation or money hungry police state behind some of this. Wouldn't that place the onus on individuals using the sites rather than hosting, because you could locate them within the territories under your jurisprudence. And I don't mean using the sites for this "child pornography" specifically, but as part of a larger set of site facilities. And a youthful looking girl or boy of 18 or 19 might be legal but set off alarms with unforeseen consequences.

I think it may be justified to follow through on this, but a slippery slope remains a danger to be avoided. Perhaps Free Speech, which has been held at times and in places to be a crime if the speech offends the neighborhood, would be next down that slope. Help me see a way that this can work without regrettable consequences...