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Non-Biological Lesbian mom gains custody of 7 yr old

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posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 11:43 AM
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Janet Jenkins was awarded full custody of the child in a Virginia court.

Jenkins' ex-partner - Lisa Miller - denied visitation rights, and the judge in the case got angry. Miller refused to let Jenkins even visit Isabella — who was conceived while the pair were together — while the custody proceedings continued for months. And that was enough for Judge William Cohen, who called the battle “a first-of-its kind parent custody change,” to eliminate any chance of Miller to have custody of her biological daughter.

While Miller has repeatedly blocked Jenkins' access to Isabella, the judge said Jenkins has agreed to allow Miller access and would allow the child to continue to attend church events with her other parent.

www.proudparenting.com...

This is just wrong!!!

Firstly shouldn't the parents be allowed to have a say in regards to WHO the child will go to?

If I were to lose my child for whatever reason shouldn't I have the right to say that I would want the future parents to be hetero?

I fully realize how liberal many are here on ATS but this is not about "hetero or not she can still make a good mother" it has nothing to do with that.

This is just plain wrong wrong wrong wrong!!!!!

Truth here is stranger than fiction.

This is horrible, if I were the parent i don't know what I would do




posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 12:25 PM
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the mum should "kidnap" the kid and move state, and get a retrial.

its not her child in any sense. and it puts her at risk as she gets older.

[edit on 24-11-2009 by MR BOB]

[edit on 24-11-2009 by MR BOB]



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 12:27 PM
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I think in this case the parent should have the right to give their child to someone they fit is best.

But I do believe if the parents are not fit to take care of the child because they are alcoholics, drug addicts, or whatever, that they do not have the right to tell the court where they think their child could be taken too.

Good article I think. S&F



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 12:37 PM
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I can see that this is going to be a very touchy subject.

First off, the two were 'technically' married when she was artificially inseminated so obviously they had to come to some kind of agreement that it was there child 'together'.

Don't jump to conclusions when you don't have the facts. From what I've read through the articles listed, she's been there through the birth, helped raised the little girl, feed her, clothe her etc. In a technical sense she is just as much as a mother as the biological mother, just being blood doesn't make you a mom, acting like one does to.

On the other hand I don't agree with full custody be given to one parent over the other for reasons that aren't addressed in the article, but at the same time the biological mother should have been going to court and arguing her case in stead of being contempt.

I'm gay, and if my husband decided to find a surrogate to have a baby with and I was there to help raise him/her, clothe, feed, house, etc. for so long I would consider the kid just as much mine as he/she was his. Though I don't know how that would work in my state seeing as how same-sex marriage is illegal here, we just had a ceremony and consider each other husbands, but still, there is much more at play here that people need to take a look at.

I'm not taking sides in this case, I'll wait till all the facts come out.

What does Isabella have to say about this? If she loves both her moms she should have them both. IMO.

[edit on 11/24/2009 by Uniceft17]



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 12:37 PM
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*Sorry Double Post*

[edit on 11/24/2009 by Uniceft17]



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 12:37 PM
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*Double Post*

[edit on 11/24/2009 by Uniceft17]



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 12:39 PM
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"In the long term, the change in custody will be in (Isabella's) best interests as she will have the opportunity for maximum continuing physical and emotional contact with both parents," he said, adding that both parents were equal in terms of stability, financial resources, emotional availability and other considerations required for child rearing.


from reading the article, it seems that jenkins is the childs other parent and that, for the sake of the child, she was awarded custody.

i really don't care if the woman is lesbian, straight, gay, bi-sexual, whatever, if it is best for the child that jenkins gets custody, that's fine by me.

if you think it's better that a child be denied access to the loving kind person they have only ever known as mom because of biological ties, then you're an idiot.



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 12:44 PM
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Originally posted by pieman

from reading the article, it seems that jenkins is the childs other parent and that, for the sake of the child, she was awarded custody.


Agreed, If the girl loves both her mom's then it's in her best interest not to be separated from either, it seem from what I've read that I'm getting the impression that the biological mother doesn't have her childs best interest in mind, which is to be with a loving parent you've known since birth. But like I said, I'll wait till all the facts come out for a conclusion.

Would you want to be separated from the person you've loved and known since birth and have considered a parent just because your other parent wanted to? For all we know the biological mother could have been doing this in spite. I want to hear Isabella's opinion.

[edit on 11/24/2009 by Uniceft17]



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 12:45 PM
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I fully realize how liberal many are here on ATS but this is not about "hetero or not she can still make a good mother" it has nothing to do with that.


Reeaally?

Thread Title:

Non-Biological Lesbian mom gains custody of 7 yr old




---

The person best able to care for the child is who should get the child.


If I were to lose my child for whatever reason shouldn't I have the right to say that I would want the future parents to be hetero?


No you don't. If you lose the right to care for your child because you have shown that you can't handle the care yourself, what right do you think you have to make any decisions? If you've failed at parenting, then you are the last person that should be making that child's decisions.


If a mom beats her kid and has the child taken away, are you going to say she should legally be able to demand that her child can only live in abusive households?



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 12:49 PM
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ok... i know this is gonna be a bit controversial for some... But I can understand were the Judge is coming from.

First let’s have a think about this...

Do you believe that Children who have been adopted have the ability to love their adopted parents the same as they would a biological parent?

And do you believe that the Parent who is adopting can love the child as their own??

From what I have read the non-biological parent has raised the child since Birth... She was in a lesbian relationship with the biological parent and I’m assuming they both agreed to raise a child together.

Now whatever their adult reasons for splitting up is... would it not be extremely unfair to deny the non-biological parent access to the child if they have proved to be a good parent and there is love between that t parent and the child???

From what I can see the Judge was frustrated at the biological parent’s lack of willingness to co-operate in visitation rights. This was the main reason for awarding custody to the non-biological parent.

In essence he is treating them the same as a heterosexual couple... something most gay people have been requesting for years.

I bet 6 months before the split the biological mother would have been the first to shout about equal rights for gay couples when raising children.

Well in essence... that’s what she now has... you can’t always have your cake and eat it.

I would like to add, however, that I openly admit to making a lot of assumptions and have done a bit of reading between the lines on this... but that is how I see it.



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 12:51 PM
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Originally posted by niteboy82
Reeaally?

Yes, Really!


Originally posted by niteboy82
The person best able to care for the child is who should get the child.

there's more than just the biological mom and the lesbian women in this world
there's plenty of more fish in the sea



Originally posted by niteboy82
No you don't. If you lose the right to care for your child because you have shown that you can't handle the care yourself, what right do you think you have to make any decisions? If you've failed at parenting, then you are the last person that should be making that child's decisions.


I understand what you are saying here
But your too quick to give an answer
your answer sounds very impulsive

If the court finds that her request is of sound mind and acceptable then why not accomodate the wishes of a biological mother?



Originally posted by niteboy82
If a mom beats her kid and has the child taken away, are you going to say she should legally be able to demand that her child can only live in abusive households?

Because my dad used to kick my behind it's hard for me to answer that
what are you referring to, abuse or discipline?

My dad kicked my behind all the time, i'm happy he did.
Because of that now i'm well educated and successful.
This is why most east indians and orientals are the future superpowers.
Discipline.



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 12:52 PM
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I can foresee people blowing things out of proportion in this thread so I am going to draw parallels.

If this were a married heterosexual couple who had artificially inseminated because they couldn't conceive and divourced awhile after the baby was born and the husband had loved and cared for that baby would you advocate tearing that kid away from who he/she considered there father.

Let's not try to make this a gay issue, it probably will because this tends to happen in threads like this, but let's try to look at it from a different view-point.

[edit on 11/24/2009 by Uniceft17]



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 12:55 PM
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Originally posted by MR BOB
its not her child in any sense. and it puts her at risk as she gets older.


i find this sentiment fairly distasteful.



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 12:55 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia

there's more than just the biological mom and the lesbian women in this world
there's plenty of more fish in the sea


What does this statement mean? Neither should get the child?

And what's with lesbian being brought up in the first place, if this didn't have to do with lesbians this would be a common sense non-issue.



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 12:56 PM
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Originally posted by Uniceft17
If this were a married heterosexual couple who had artificially inseminated because they couldn't conceive and divourced awhile after the baby was born and the husband had loved and cared for that baby would you advocate tearing that kid away from who he/she considered there father.

Let's not try to make this a gay issue, it probably will because this tends to happen in threads like this, but let's try to look at it from a different view-point.


ok... so maybe the forum mod above was right
maybe this is a gay issue


But listen, if a couple decides to become gay then why not live with that decision?

homosexuality disallows you from naturally having kids
the couple made that decision
So I don't think that you are drawing comparable parallels

Of course this is a case that will end up having many many variables more than any other case that I can think of.



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 01:05 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia

ok... so maybe the forum mod above was right
maybe this is a gay issue



Finally, the truth comes out, I knew it.


But listen, if a couple decides to become gay then why not live with that decision?

homosexuality disallows you from naturally having kids
the couple made that decision


No one CHOSE to be homosexual, the only thing they chose was to be with eachother, they didn't choose who to love and who to be attracted to, and every capable loving human being on this earth has a right to have kids, only totalitarian governments can take that human right from you. This day in age you can have kids however you want, the times are changing, some can choose to live in the past where blood and human sexuality is the only thing that matters or you can move forward and acknowledge that loving parents is all that matters and we are finally getting there. :]


Of course this is a case that will end up having many many variables more than any other case that I can think of.


Which is a shame, if this were a heterosexual couple there wouldn't be any controversy, it would be a common sense issue. But some people think 2 loving lesbian mothers can't raise a child. I say move on people, there are probably a million plus gay people raising kids these days, I went to high school with 5 people that had lesbian/gay parents and they all turned out hetero and are loving and tolerant people, and I live in Alabama, the most closed minded community in the US, obviously something good is happening.


[edit on 11/24/2009 by Uniceft17]



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 01:18 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


On another note, Do you think this child should get ripped away from both parents just because they happen to be gay? Would you honestly hurt that child that much, that child would be emotionally devastated for life. Honestly I can't follow what you are thinking, you've been dishonest in this thread since you opening post.




there's more than just the biological mom and the lesbian women in this world there's plenty of more fish in the sea





ok... so maybe the forum mod above was right maybe this is a gay issue


And then this.



I fully realize how liberal many are here on ATS but this is not about "hetero or not she can still make a good mother" it has nothing to do with that


Uh-huh, Yeah right. If you think you know who should be making babies and raising them move to China, you'll fit in well with them.



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 01:18 PM
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Originally posted by Uniceft17
Finally, the truth comes out, I knew it.

Originally it wasn't a gay issue
then I reread the article and found out that the lesbian was the biological mother's partner.
For some reason I didn't catch that earlier



Originally posted by Uniceft17
No one CHOSE to be homosexual

Do you have proof on that?
I hear that all the time from people who have zero proof.
I do not believe that you are born homosexual i'm sorry
you may be born tall or born short but not born homosexual

yes there are studies that SUGGESTS the possibility and there are studies that say the opposite.



Originally posted by Uniceft17
and every capable loving human being on this earth has a right to have kids, only totalitarian governments can take that human right from you.

I completely agree, every capable loving human being has a right to have kids.

Unfortunately for homosexuals they AREN'T capable to have kids... Literally!

so yes we are in agreement


Originally posted by Uniceft17
Which is a shame, if this were a heterosexual couple there wouldn't be any controversy, it would be a common sense issue. But some people think 2 loving lesbian mothers can't raise a child.

I believe this is offtopic
If you decide to enter a lifestyle that disallows kids then you chose a lifestyle that disallows kids.

It seems you just want what you consider as "good" but you don't want the bad.

So in other words you can say that even homosexuals do not accept a homosexual life.



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 01:31 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally it wasn't a gay issue
then I reread the article and found out that the lesbian was the biological mother's partner.
For some reason I didn't catch that earlier


I wish I could believe that.



Do you have proof on that?
I hear that all the time from people who have zero proof.
I do not believe that you are born homosexual i'm sorry
you may be born tall or born short but not born homosexual


Believe what you want, I know that I didn't choose to who to be attracted to or who to fall in love with. I don't think homosexuals are going around lying to themselves and eachother all the time. I don't see how anyone could think that homosexuals would choose to go through a life of prejudice and bullying over something they cannot help. The only thing homosexuals choose is who to BE with, and who you sleep with doesn't have EVERYTHING to do with sexuality, there's also attraction and feelings.


I completely agree, every capable loving human being has a right to have kids.


Finally we AGREE!


Unfortunately for homosexuals they AREN'T capable to have kids... Literally!


Then how did the woman in your article have a kid!? Did it just magically appear in her uterus, did she immaculately conceive!?

If you agree that every loving human being on this earth should be able to have kids then yes, obviously we do agree.



I believe this is offtopic


Then report me, alert the mods.

Like I said, move to China.

[edit on 11/24/2009 by Uniceft17]



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 01:32 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


Well here it is at last albeit in the US I'm waiting for this to happen in the UK.

My parting words to my lawyer were along the lines of " When both parents have breasts which won't be long will we come back and ask the judge to apologize to all the fathers who he deemed secondary in the upbringing of the child ?"

Although I don't consider this judgment in anyway satisfactory (not knowing all the details) I sincerely hope we start taking steps to equal shared parenting, our kids have the right to the love of both parents on equal terms dito extended families by measure.

As to the poster that recommended kidnapping , well not very smart and will only cause more heart ache for children, although I do appreciate the emotional sentiment behind the suggestion. It's a no no and I can speak from experience.



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