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Couple arrested over 'theft' for refusing to tip in restaurant

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posted on May, 6 2012 @ 03:22 PM
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Looks like it came back to hurt them. I just checked on the restraurant and found this.

new owners




posted on May, 6 2012 @ 06:02 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


If you don't like serving others or being in the public eye , don't be a waitress. I don't owe you anything. The tip is to show my appreciation for your service. If you suck at it, you aren't getting a cent. Being a waitress is a hard job and the moment someone smarted off id have a really big problem really fast. That is why I am not a waitress. When you know how to defend yourself, when you know how to scream, and when you know how to make someone a mockery in front of others, you keep yourself out of that kind of situation so you don't go to jail and so you don't look like a fool along with the person you just provoked.

So don't be a waitress if you aren't social or know how to bite your tongue every now and again when you are waiting on a moron.
edit on 6-5-2012 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 6 2012 @ 06:32 PM
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Originally posted by milkyway12
reply to post by Annee
 


If you don't like serving others or being in the public eye , don't be a waitress. I don't owe you anything.


What a tip used to be - - - is not today.

Use whatever excuse you want. Its still an excuse.



posted on May, 6 2012 @ 06:41 PM
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reply to post by RoyalCanadian
 


Are you kidding me? I was a server for 2 years and we got paid 2.40 an hour if it wasn't for the tips, I wouldn't have made jack.

Oh and our taxes were taken out of that $2.40 an hour so there were times I actually owed money on payday.

In this economy sometimes it's the only place we can find jobs.


I don't agree with the arrests, and believe tips should be based on service, but to say you never tip no matter what is just stupid. And the worst
edit on 6-5-2012 by tw0330 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 6 2012 @ 06:48 PM
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Originally posted by tw0330
reply to post by RoyalCanadian
 


Are you kidding me? I was a server for 2 years and we got paid 2.40 an hour if it wasn't for the tips, I wouldn't have made jack.

Oh and our taxes were taken out of that $2.40 an hour so there were times I actually owed money on payday.


Exactly.

There were a couple times my kid had to actually pay the restaurant - - - because of deductions.

The ignorance and selfishness of the public is disgraceful.

The horror stories my kid tells me about customers is sick.

Who tips? Poorer families with children.



posted on May, 6 2012 @ 08:23 PM
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If it is mandatory, it is a charge, or fee. Not a tip.
If it is mandatory, I will only pay that exact amount, and not one cent more, on principle.
If it is mandatory, I won't patronise at your resturaunt or bar ever again.

If its a genuine voluntary tip, and the service was good, and the food was good, you will probably get a fairly decent tip. If the service was bad or the food was rubbish, you won't get any tip.

Thats how it should work and how it does work, for me.



posted on May, 6 2012 @ 11:11 PM
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At the restaurants I've worked here in the US all a customer has to do is raise a stink about a bad meal or service and their meal gets comped most times. This charge is meant as a protection for hardworking servers that are often under-appreciated. If servers are neglecting their duties because they feel too secure the restaurant needs to crack down or not expect return business.



posted on May, 6 2012 @ 11:45 PM
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Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by tw0330
reply to post by RoyalCanadian
 


Are you kidding me? I was a server for 2 years and we got paid 2.40 an hour if it wasn't for the tips, I wouldn't have made jack.

Oh and our taxes were taken out of that $2.40 an hour so there were times I actually owed money on payday.


Exactly.

There were a couple times my kid had to actually pay the restaurant - - - because of deductions.

The ignorance and selfishness of the public is disgraceful.

The horror stories my kid tells me about customers is sick.

Who tips? Poorer families with children.


I think you have mis-placed the blame on tipping. The resturaunt owners get a special wage and the employees bear the brunt of it. I understand that the reason the resturaunts don't want to pay someone their full wages and eliminate tipping. Then on slow days they don't have to pay out while their employees suffer because they can't depend on resturaunt foot traffic.

The resturaunts are laughing all the way to the bank because this reduces their "fixed" costs and at the same time it shifts the "variable" aspect of resturaunt foot traffic squarely on the waiters and waistresses.

You have been programmed to think that this is the only way because it is the primary business model for "other than fast food" resturaunts and you are buying into a belief that the customer should "make up for the resturaunt owners poor wages.
edit on 6-5-2012 by fnpmitchreturns because: content

edit on 6-5-2012 by fnpmitchreturns because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 6 2012 @ 11:46 PM
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true if owner wanted to make it clear he should have it listed as PARTIES OVER 6 WILL BE CHARGED AN 18 PERCENT party fee . thats the way local restaurant around here does it but there fee is only 10 percent



posted on May, 7 2012 @ 02:33 AM
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slightly related.

i have stopped tipping pizza delivery people.
all the major pizza places have added on a 2-3 dollar delivery charge, just for the hell of it.
i thought i was already tipping for the convenience of some kid running miles on his car and offering me the service.
but now it is apparently on the bill, so it is more his duty, and i dont have to feel obligated to tip.

you dont tip when you walk in for a take out. now with a delivery charge, its no different.



posted on May, 7 2012 @ 07:53 AM
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Why is it that restaurant owners are allowed to pay such ridiculous low wages like 2$/h? It's unbelievable that the waiters act like a kind of entrepreneurs on their own who have to work under circumstances they cannot be in complete control of. Good Work, good pay - but by the one who hires you and not from the one you serve - if they like to give a tip anyway for good service, that's ok, but the way it is especially in the US is a shame ... but I guess tha'ts what most of the US is to civilzed people
(of course referring to the legislative and executive branch, not the people - but sheeple are also being referred to
)



posted on May, 7 2012 @ 10:37 AM
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Originally posted by fnpmitchreturns

You have been programmed to think that this is the only way because it is the primary business model for "other than fast food" resturaunts and you are buying into a belief that the customer should "make up for the resturaunt owners poor wages.


I haven't been programmed to think anything. I'm stating the way it is.

I do not agree with it.

I tip 20% ALWAYS. Because I know how it is.

Not only do servers have to keep a smile on their face for every rude crap customer - - they have to turn tables. Which means they have to encourage you to leave. Sometimes it feels like they are rushing you. It is not their fault.

They should at least be paid minimum wage.


edit on 7-5-2012 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 7 2012 @ 12:40 PM
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Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by fnpmitchreturns

You have been programmed to think that this is the only way because it is the primary business model for "other than fast food" resturaunts and you are buying into a belief that the customer should "make up for the resturaunt owners poor wages.


I haven't been programmed to think anything. I'm stating the way it is.

I do not agree with it.

I tip 20% ALWAYS. Because I know how it is.

Not only do servers have to keep a smile on their face for every rude crap customer - - they have to turn tables. Which means they have to encourage you to leave. Sometimes it feels like they are rushing you. It is not their fault.

They should at least be paid minimum wage.


edit on 7-5-2012 by Annee because: (no reason given)




No one should be paid a minimum wage.
You should be paid according to how good you are at the task at hand and how important the task at hand is to the owner who wants it done. The government stepping and and demanding a minimum be paid destroys jobs and the free flow of the economy. People get this mistaken idea that THEY own their job and are entitled to be paid a specific amount for just walking in the door and being above room temperature. You dont own any claim to it at all.
Just because someone puts on an apron and carries an orderpad does not entitle them to some magic claim to an additional portion of my income if I chose to eat at a resteraunt. My deal is with the owner of that establishment. I owe them for the services and food ordered. That I choose to provide an extra compensation directly to the server is a seperate deal based on that servers performance. I dont really care what the owner pays the server to be doing that task. As long as I dont see chains around the servers ankle then I am assured they are not employed against their will and are free to seek employment elsewhere. Since they choose to continue working there they must be comfortable with the pay they are receiving. If not they should leave. They should not take their frustrations out on me the customer.
I dont ask much
I would like my order taken shortly after I sit down.
I would like my drinks brought out shortly after the order is taken.
I would like to be informed if the kitchen is backed up (not the servers fault)
I would like the server to have a decent memory so that when I ask for something they remember to get it and not go on their break. Barring a decent memory a pad of paper to write things down.
I would like the server to check on me a couple of times after the food arrives.

Thats really all that is needed. You dont have to carry on a conversation with me. You dont have to be bubbly and happy. You can be business like and cold. Just keep the tea glass full.
I will tip based on those requirements.



posted on May, 7 2012 @ 01:13 PM
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Originally posted by Dragoon01
No one should be paid a minimum wage.

You should be paid according to how good you are at the task at hand and how important the task at hand is to the owner who wants it done. The government stepping and and demanding a minimum be paid destroys jobs and the free flow of the economy.


I don't have any mistaken ideas.

I do know that "Ideology" is a nice word and not much else.

If you are not in politics - - - get yourself in - - - and make these changes happen.



posted on May, 7 2012 @ 01:23 PM
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Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by fnpmitchreturns

You have been programmed to think that this is the only way because it is the primary business model for "other than fast food" resturaunts and you are buying into a belief that the customer should "make up for the resturaunt owners poor wages.


I haven't been programmed to think anything. I'm stating the way it is.

I do not agree with it.

I tip 20% ALWAYS. Because I know how it is.

Not only do servers have to keep a smile on their face for every rude crap customer - - they have to turn tables. Which means they have to encourage you to leave. Sometimes it feels like they are rushing you. It is not their fault.

They should at least be paid minimum wage.


edit on 7-5-2012 by Annee because: (no reason given)


Once I worked as a line cook in a 4 star resturaunt in New Oxford, Pa (Altland House) in the 1980s and I enjoyed the cooking but the pay was not that good. I understand that "this is the way it is".

This is a case when ever any system is established and it becomes the "industry norm" others just accept it without resisting it. That is why I am an independent contractor because I see the inherent disadvantage of being in the "waiter/waitress social tipping contract" just like working hourly for someone else.

I am not a great tipper but usually 10-15 %.


The only resturaunt I go to is a Mongolian Resturaunt in Salem, VA and it is a buffet with a side raw bar where they will stir fry what ever you choose. I just can not find any decent food out there and since I can cook it better than any resturaunt in a 50 mile radius why bother?

I do not work in the food industry now but on foreclosed homes.
edit on 7-5-2012 by fnpmitchreturns because: add content/clarify



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 01:13 AM
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I love how backwards the US can be on such things. A tip should be what the name implies and has always meant - A bonus for a job well done. In most civilised countries we have a minimum wage that is reasonable and applies to every kind of job. This way a bonus stays a bonus.

A tip cannot be a tip if it is mandatory. Making the bonus mandatory does not solve this problem. Paying people an honest wage for an honest days work would.



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 01:24 AM
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yeah so they were never charged with anything. They got scared once this went public.


The owner of the Lehigh Pub claims that a portion of the party's food and drink charges were "comped", that is, the bill was substantially reduced, apparently in recognition of the very poor or even nonexistent service the group received. Wagner and Pope state that this is incorrect, and claim that they paid the full bill except for the added gratuity charge of $16.35.

Stuart Bedics, Bethlehem Deputy Police Commissioner, whose appointment as Bethlehem Police Commissioner was announced November 13, 2009 by Bethlehem Mayor John Callahan, has stated that "Obviously we would have liked for the patron and the retail establishment to have worked this out without getting the police involved". However, the television news clips report that the police charged the couple with theft because the gratuity was part of the actual bill, and that Bedics doubts that these charges will hold up in court.

Obviously cowed by this demonstration of the power of the police and city government in enforcing even the unfair charges and policies of local business owners, Pope has stated in interviews that in the future she would just pay whatever bill she was presented with, no matter what.

This matter received media and internet attention starting about mid-November, 2009. Soon after, I received personal communications that allege the police no longer want to prosecute Wagner and Pope since the $16.35 fee (clearly far in excess of 18%) was listed as a "gratuity", rather than a service charge (does this change of heart of the police have anything to do with the publicity?). Also, the police representative stated that if Lehigh Pub had listed the $16.35 as a "service charge" instead of a "gratuity", Wagner and Pope would definitely be prosecuted.

I guess this is apparently true even if the party that had this service charge levied on them had obtained substandard service, or even no service at all. It is interesting to me that the police were willing to arrest Wagner and Pope on October 23, 2009 on charges of theft, and then planned to charge them until this started to get media attention more than 3 weeks later, at which time they started to sing a different tune.

It has been reported that one of the owners of Lehigh Pub has stated that the story that has appeared in the media is incomplete. No further details are yet available.

On November 25, 2009, after plenty of media attention, the police announced they were dropping the charges. Wagner and Pope are scheduled to appear on CNN to discuss this episode on December 1, 2009.

At least several hundred, and probably several thousand reviews of the Lehigh Pub after this episode was publicized have been removed from Yelp! and rateitall.com and Metromix Lehigh Valley and other internet rating sites.
boycottlehighpub.blogspot.com.es...



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 02:55 AM
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reply to post by Bisman
 


You really find out about those delivery charges. Not all that do a delivery charge pay it to the delivery person, in fact most do not. Often that charge goes to the owner in order to re-coop losses by having competitive prices. Ever notice how the price of a medium pizza is on average $10 (and $15 for a large)? The price of ingredients have risen, especially meats and cheese, yet the price of the pizza remains the same. Hence the "delivery fee".

I work for a mom and pop place, that charges a delivery fee on all orders unless it is food only and cash only. You want beer or cigarettes or want to pay with a credit card, you are going to be charged $1.50. Simple solution to avoid that fee is order pick up....only watch again where you order from as some places do charge a $3 fee for takeout. I won't name names because not all locations of that particular chain do this, but I know a few stores that do.

Another word to the wise. By not tipping habitually, the drivers do keep mental notes. You may find yourself unable to be delivered to as most decent companies will refuse to deliver to problematic customers in order to retain their drivers. Don't think so? Look at the other side of the coin. if a place does 50 deliveries a night for a total of $750 per driver...will they risk the other $745 over your $15 by not having a driver if he says "screw this and those non-tipping so and so's" Personally most drivers figure $2-3 per delivery with a daily haul of $100-$150 in tips plus whatever hourly wage (using the 50 delivery average above), they are then liable for reporting their tips earned and if it is less than 8% of their sales ($60 using the average of $750 above), the employer will come to them for money to pay the taxes due to "under reporting" their tips. So by not tipping, you are twice screwing the pizza guy over. Once for wasting his time and gas and twice by having to cover the 8% rule.

And the 8% rule goes for all tipped employees. Waitress, bartenders and so on unless they do pooled tips, like the tip jars in Starbucks.

As for me, if it is a regular customer and they are short on cash, I tell them to make it up to me the next time. By the same token, I don't let them overtip if they are drunk or hand me a $50 thinking it was a $20 and treating it as such. On a good night I can average $20-$30 an hour. On a bad night $5-$7 an hour. It is a take and give type of job, but pays more than minimum wage and I do it as a second part-time job on the weekends. Which is why I can buy a guitar or amp or other things when the mood strikes me. And consumerism is what keeps the economy afloat. Because not buying such things means the guy working at Sam Ash is out a job and he won't be buying a pizza next weekend to give me a couple bucks.



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 03:16 AM
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reply to post by DimensionalDetective
 


Well I work in this business so I hope to lend some insight.

In my place, we do not do any mandatory gratuity, restuaraunts are well within their rights to do it, but we think it's tacky to force someone to leave a tip.

the vast majority of people atleast from the states will tip you, and for good service be very fair.

having a system of gratuity to me gives less motivation for the server to give good service

OTOH, alot of patrons, honestly have zero clue how hard the business is, and how hectic it can be. People can be very rude to their servers for absolutely no reason. Alot of customers lack manners.

unfortunately in this case, you have customers unwilling to accept a discount, the establishment was within it's rights here but should not have taken it this far



posted on May, 8 2012 @ 03:18 AM
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Haha..I know this dump. Right near Lehigh University. If I recall it was called Bridgeworks, and I think Molly's Pub at one time.
A lot of college kids and food and service is bad.
On the arrest...well A gratuity is always encouraged, but never required. IMO.

edit on 5/8/2012 by mugger because: (no reason given)




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