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Couple arrested over 'theft' for refusing to tip in restaurant

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posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 02:57 PM
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Originally posted by Doc Tesla
most restaurant dont pay by the hour. unless you work at a chain restaurant. most family owned restaurants waiters work solely off tips. so next time your food tastes funny you'll know why.


Coming from outside the US this just seems strange to me. Why don't they just bump the price of the food up by 20% and pay the staff a real wage?

I do generally leave a tip here in the UK anyway if the service has been decent just to show appreciation and because I know the staff are probably on minimum wage (£5.80 per hour?) which isn't much but is at least enough to live on in most parts of the country.




posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 05:14 PM
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Originally posted by Chris McGee


Coming from outside the US this just seems strange to me. Why don't they just bump the price of the food up by 20% and pay the staff a real wage?


That may seem like a fair practice, but that certainly does limit the incentive for better performance.

The custom of tipping may seem odd to some, but it is an old practice and it usually works quite well.

The thing to remember in this instance is that the rule only applies to certain size parties and it only exists because of the toll such parties place on wait staff and the frequency with which such groups leave nothing.

I'm surprised that so many here have never heard of the practice. It is quite common.

I do have one rule regarding "mandatory gratuities" (Yes, that is an oxymoron). I never tip more, even if my tip would have been higher.

I don't mind the practice, but whatever they add, that is what they get.

It is my considered opinion that all human beings should have to work in a restaurant at least once in thier lives. That experience will forever change the way you view the human race and make you a much better judge of character.



posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 09:18 AM
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what a freeking joke!

I dont leave a tip, ever, thats what yer freekin wages are for!

ive worked in plenty bars, clubs and cafe's in the past and recieved tips, i never asked for them and i never felt the need to A. ask people for them or B. rely on them and C. NEVER HARRASS ANYONE FOR THEM.

noone should have to pay a tip, EVER, thats what employers pay wages for, if they dont pay wages and this causes customers to beg for tips they should be dealt with by the law.

like i say, ive worked in places, plenty of them , and been tipped, like i said , i never asked for it, never relyed on it ... i have worked in places where even put it on the bill with a stupid name, i forget that just now, and that is so wrong....

if people need to pay more for services, why not be freeking told this?!?!? rather than have this total sus practice that has went unchecked liek scince ever!

the fact people got arressted?!? i hope they are able to sue for wrongful arrest as they are deffinitelly NOT theifs!, if they were expected to pay a service charge dont we all think they should be told about it first. The worst thing is in this case, the tips probably dont even go in a tip pot/jar, they are most likelly put through the till and not divided with staff at all.... as i said, i have worked in places that have done this and most likely still do,,, and its just freeking wrong!

i think in this day and age, people starving, society crumbling, yet people still find time to moan about not getting MORE money, when most people cant get ANY!



posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 11:44 AM
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reply to post by unicorn1
 


yes Unicorn1, that is correct, at the end of the servers shift, they will be asked to report their tip income to the irs. the irs will then use that number, or a percentage of food sales (i think 8-10), whichever is higher.

to the no tipping crowd in general - YIKES! you small minded creeps can stay way the hell away from MY gustatory adventures.

The Ossobucco at Trattoria Marcella will put you into a time machine and you will find yourself dining like a Borgia...

the last time i dined there, with 2 pals, it was almost 400 bucks, we threw our waitress a Cnote on toppa.

YOU ONLY HAVE ACCESS TO THE SERVICE YOU PAY FOR. at least in the USA, when dealing with free men and women practicing their specialty. (i mean these arent PEASANTS were describing here)

ever have someone walk you through a french wine list while you make up your mind? you walk away from a dinner like that better for the experience. seriously, thats knowledge that you can use for the rest of your life.

but i acknowledge that there are other tiers of dining.

so you go to some crappy place, and they are understaffed, overworked, and as a result, you have a bad experience.

what do you do? you take it out on the MANAGER. not the waitress, shes been your ally through this whole thing. (she's still your ally when you cant see her, in the kitchen making your stuff, yelling at a bartender to make your drink right etc). he will make the bill smaller, you will tip well on the original pre discounted amount to show that you are aware of the extra work your "problem" is causing.

so if you stiff your waitress, you are making her pay the IRS for the priveledge of your insult.

it gets worse,

your waitress has a busboy to tip out, the number she pays him is a function of her food sales...

so if you stiff your waitress, you put other peoples hands into her pocket twice...

now from what im hearing from some posters, WHO CARES?
if youre dumb enough to work for 2 dollars an hour you deserve it!!

i have a dif take on that attitude.

Youre free to be a BIG DOG.

im a big dog, or at least im free to act like one

no one can take that away from me. A crappy night cant take that away from me, a surly waiter cant take that away from me. and let me tell you, the staff will never forget you. rules will evaporate in the face of your desires. waiters will trip over each other in the attempt to get to your table first. and when youre ready to impress someone, a date, a client, you know where you'll be taking them.

and i bet you'll even be able to get a table.



posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 12:25 PM
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I've been on a number of vacations to the Caribbean where tipping for good service was very much a part of the culture.

Funny thing on one of those occasions, upon returning home and to work, I remember feeling distinctly disappointed when after really going out of my way for someone (I did Social Service work) they just said "thanks" and walked away.


I was so accustomed to the gratuity thing that I really felt I should have gotten one myself; even tho of course that is never done in that line of work.


I don't know. Maybe tipping should become a more widely practiced thing.



posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 12:31 PM
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sounds to me like the couple who got arrested just hit the lottery.

Sure, they got arrested, but i doubt they get punished further, and then counter lawsuit time.



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 09:16 AM
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NVM I thought this was a new story I searched a news story and this popped up.
edit on 4-5-2012 by Pigraphia because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 09:59 AM
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I think the restaurant owner isn't going to be in Bus. Long enuff to worry about tips! Once this story is out I think people will be out-raged and hopefully boycott the restaurant. What ever happened to customer service? I feel like a lot of bus. make you feel like you owe them and you should be grateful they let u in their store.

I feel there are 2 kinds of an american....the patriots .... And the elitist. If you live in the burbs w/ maxed out cards and a trampoline in your back-yard....a lot of those people act sooo entitled and judgmental..they act as if we the little people need to get out of their way. If you don't wear Prada...your nothing. Those are the people that can't see why we question 911...And Love our politics.....

Anyone voting for Romney....same crap different day....they bury themselves in their crap they can't afford or what they can afford they find ways to jack us and not pay their fair share of taxes, instead of looking at the real issues... Those are the ones that are in for such a horrible ride when tshtf...they won't be able to find their Botox and hairblowers.....there's going to be a lot of ugly people when that happens..hahahaha



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 04:19 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
If the terms are listed on the menu, then the patrons are responsible for the tab, which includes the tip.

Many restaurants have instituted this measure because it is not uncommon for large parties to come in and work the staff to death and no one bothers to leave a tip, either because everyone thinks someone else will or they forget in all the revelry.

I've worked in the restaurant business and in the US, wait staff work for tips. Yes, they earn a wage, but it is on the order of about $2.00 an hour and restaurants are allowed to pay such low wages because it is customary for customers to tip.

In reality, those who refuse to tip are thieves, even though in most cases there is no penalty for such crass behavior.

Even when the service is bad, customers need to factor in such things as pace of the business at the time and the presentation and demeanor of the staff.

Personally, I always tip and often more than 20%, because I usually eat in family-type restaurants and a large tip in such establishments rarely comes to more than a couple of dollars.

If I drop in for a glass of iced tea or coffee, I may leave a dollar for the $1.50 bill. In those cases, tipping just 15%-20% seems inadequate and I tend to form friendly relations with staff in the establishments I frequent and I don't mind being generous with them.

It is easy to say that the couple in question was arrested for not tipping, but in fact they were arrested for not paying the bill, which is theft.

Their only hope is if the terms were not clearly spelled out in advance. Pleading slow service won't cut it.


[edit on 2009/11/24 by GradyPhilpott]


^quoted for truth.

A party of 8 and the tip was a total of $16, what couldn't the misers pony up $2 each? Really.

As this is news all over PA (I live in SE PA and I know the area well but I've never been to the particular establishment), I have no sympathy for the "victims". They're acting like slow service on a busy night is a reason to stiff the server(s) who tended to 8 people, leaving them only their miniscule hourly to cover all the work that was done tending to this party and how many others?

Trash, that's all that they are. Really.

Derek



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 04:22 PM
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If the menu states a mandatory 18% gratuity on all charges, they should have taken it up with the manager, or paid it, and then taken it up with the better business bureau.

The fact is, that while the restaurant provided terrible service, the charge was likely clearly outlined on the menu.

Don't pay your bill? Expect consequences.



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 04:40 PM
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reply to post by boaby_phet
 


Not a joke, if the required gratuity was listed as an extra charge required on the bill, it's REQUIRED as part of the bill.

If the customers had a problem with it, they should have taken it up with the manager.



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 04:47 PM
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Originally posted by jdub297
reply to post by DimensionalDetective
 
There is no such thing as "mandatory 18 per cent gratuity!

Failure to acknowledge an oxymoron cannot be theft, as it lacks the necessary "mens rea." You cannot submit to a "mandate" to be "gratuitous" with a pre-defined amount of "gratuity."

The store will lose if the judge applies logic and basic English, neither of which are guaranteed in the US.


Actually, yes, there is. If the menu states, "An 18% gratuity will be added for all parties of 8 or more" and you order from the menu, that constitutes acceptance of the Terms & Conditions of that restaurant. You, in effect, agreed to a contract for service, and you owe the money and it IS theft if you don't pay it. That's "common sense" and English.

Now, the store will "lose" because it will gain a reputation and word will spread, but it won't lose a court suit.

Having said that, it doesn't mean I approve of this. I tip well for good service: 20-25% isn't unusual for me, but I definitely reserve the right to tip poorly for poor service.
edit on 5/4/2012 by schuyler because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 06:26 PM
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reply to post by uwascallywabbit
 


Thank YOU! You nailed it!
I am a professional server at a high end dinner house, and I am very good at what I do. I am paid a wage of $3.25 per hour.
For every $1000 of food and beverages I sell, the Federal Gov't "assumes" that I earn an 8% tip (or, $80).
My employer deducts the amount I owe from my paycheck and pays this tax each payroll period. On "payday" I usually must pay my employer for the deficit this causes. In return, I get my payroll stub.
In addition to this, even though I am not required to, I tip my busboy each night at the end of the shift 15% of what I earn in tips.
I do this because he helps me give excellent service by clearing and setting the tables promptly, seeing that water/coffee glasses are never empty, dropped utensils are quickly replaced, and many other helpful tasks that free me up to focus on making the meal a delightful experience for the patrons.
I also tip my bartender 10% of what I earn in tips each night because it ensures that he responds quickly to my beverage order and that the beverage is properly made. You see, he has his own customers in the bar and I am taking his time away from serving them and earning his own tips when I order my patrons beverages.
On tables that are large (8 or more diners) and tables that tip me exceptionally well, I give the chef 10% of that particular tip, which he then distributes to the other back of the house workers as he sees fit. It is not as easy as we make it look to get everyone in your large party's food out all at once, while also preparing food for 15 other tables at the same time..
So you see, it is not just the server that suffers when a table stiffs them by not leaving a tip. We all work together as a team.
Also, oftentimes patrons leave my dining room and stop in the lounge for a nightcap. Be aware that I communicate with the bartender what sort of tipper the patron is, and he gives them service accordingly.
I suppose I am fortunate to have patrons that tip me well, as I rarely bring in less than 30% of my sales totals.
Just one of YOUR server's experience...

Peace



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 06:55 PM
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Our place it's manditory if over 6 people. Thinking of lowering it to 4 live in an area where people never tip no matter what so it might become manditory across the board. If it's 8 they say were only 2 you can't do that or they come in and sit then move the tables together. We've had parties of 10 that gave everyone trouble for no reason then left. Have to say it I'm on the edge of the hood with a fair place and the residents will never tip so we've raised our prices and they complain but pay so I can pay my servers more.



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 06:56 PM
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Originally posted by uwascallywabbit
in the US, servers who work for tips are taxed upon their food sales.

any instance of food sales without tip income is a LOSS to the waiter

i have noticed when dining out that the only members of my party who complain about an included tip, are people who intended to tip less.

the only way to have a nice place to go to... with great servers who know their business... is to PAY THEM.

and all the owners need to do to stop this is to change the language...

if we are discussing a gratuity, then it is by definition: GRATUITOUS...

but anyone who walks out on a service charge is clearly in error.

you wouldnt agree to pay for your tires, but then balk at a labor fee for installation would you?

if you dont want to pay for service, please refrain from dining out. I want my server to be clean, happy, full of knowledge about fine food and wine, and to be well paid for their efforts.



In answer to your question, yes I would complain about a service charge for putting on my tires if the tire fell off when I got down the street.

You are also very much incorrect in saying that Servers are taxed based on their food sales. That is a huge misconception and is completely untrue. You can read more about it HERE


When figuring out taxes, there is a misconception that servers are required to report their tips as at least 8% of their sales revenue. 8% is simply a bottom line that the IRS uses when attempting to determine how much a server earned in tips over the year. The IRS does not expect to be paid 8% of a server’s sales as tax – that would be akin to taxing the customer for their bill. What it means is that in the absence of documentation to show how much that server earned in tips the IRS is going to assume that they earned at least 8% of their food and beverage sales. So if a server sells $1,000 of food than the IRS is going to automatically assume that they took home $80 in tips that night. They’re going to treat that $80 as taxable income and depending on what tax bracket the server is in they might get 25% of the $80 which is $20. So when a customer tips 8% it isn’t all going to the government, it’s simply that all of it is going to be taxable automatically.


I also have some news for you.... not everyone in the Service Industry claims tips and you would be very shocked at how easy it is to hide.

More on topic: This is beyond silly. A "tip" is optional and has always been optional. If the establishment requires a specific "tip" for larger parties, than that is no longer a "tip", it is a fee. In any event, someone is being paid for a service, and if that service is lacking you should not get paid. It is really very simple.



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 07:18 PM
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Talk about resurrecting an old thread.
Due to inflation that tip is probably now worth 12%



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 07:27 PM
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LOL You begin by stating the following:


Originally posted by MrWendal

You are also very much incorrect in saying that Servers are taxed based on their food sales. That is a huge misconception and is completely untrue.


and then try to prove that statement by offering up this:


When figuring out taxes, there is a misconception that servers are required to report their tips as at least 8% of their sales revenue. 8% is simply a bottom line that the IRS uses when attempting to determine how much a server earned in tips over the year. The IRS does not expect to be paid 8% of a server’s sales as tax – that would be akin to taxing the customer for their bill. What it means is that in the absence of documentation to show how much that server earned in tips the IRS is going to assume that they earned at least 8% of their food and beverage sales. So if a server sells $1,000 of food than the IRS is going to automatically assume that they took home $80 in tips that night.They’re going to treat that $80 as taxable income and depending on what tax bracket the server is in they might get 25% of the $80 which is $20. So when a customer tips 8% it isn’t all going to the government, it’s simply that all of it is going to be taxable automatically.


Contradict yourself much?
It clearly states that 8% of our sales will be deemed as taxable income.


Originally posted by MrWendal I also have some news for you.... not everyone in the Service Industry claims tips and you would be very shocked at how easy it is to hide.


That may be so for some shady establishments that deal in cash only, but it is NOT the case for most reputable businesses. It is not possible to hide tips that are paid with a credit card, which in this day and age is how most people pay their bills. The penalty is severe and simply not worth it for legitimate businesses. Why would a successful business jeopardize everything so it's servers could take home a couple of extra bucks every day? It simply is not worth it.
edit on 4-5-2012 by Elostone because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 07:33 PM
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reply to post by DimensionalDetective
 


I've worked in restaurants when I was younger, and I can say that the general sentiment that a lot of servers carried was that the tip was locked in with large parties so they did not have to work as hard, and usually did not. Personally, I always put in 110% no matter what, and I always thought it was despicable when waiters would take multiple smoke breaks or talk on their phone or hang in the back while they had a large table. I would have asked for the manager if I witnessed that behavior as a guest, because that simply should not be tolerated.

Also, why did this gain wind again, it's like three years old and that pub has since closed down.
edit on 5/4/12 by Resonant because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 07:51 PM
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reply to post by Resonant
 


HA HA! I did not notice the date!
I wonder how it all shook out in the end...



posted on May, 4 2012 @ 08:05 PM
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Originally posted by Elostone
reply to post by uwascallywabbit
 

I suppose I am fortunate to have patrons that tip me well, as I rarely bring in less than 30% of my sales totals.
Just one of YOUR server's experience...


Without knowing you and given what you have said I would type you as an excellent server who understands the entire process. As such, if I came to your restaurant with my spouse, two of my grown children, and their children, I would likely be in the "over 8 people" category. If you were able to 'serenely' take care of my brood (They are well-behaved, but I know it can sometimes be difficult) I would tend to tip you 25%-30%. If something "bad" happened and I caused you grief (Kid spills a drink or makes a mess), I'd tip over 30%. And we're talking $200+ for the meal here.

Now, if your restaurant dictated that they would charge me 18%, that puts me on the defensive right away because no matter WHAT you do or don't do, I'm charged 18%, including if your service (perhaps it's the kitchen) is lousy. THAT is what the incident that started this is all about. The family was given LOUSY service (over an hour to get dinner even served) and they balked at being forced to pay an 18% "gratuity." Then the restaurant locked the doors so the people could not leave and called the police, thus adding insult to injury.

My real point here is that if you don't force me into an 18% gratuity, from me, at least, you are likely to get much more than that because I appreciate what you do to coordinate the whole effort. I actually worked a year in a restaurant so I know how it works. If you lock me into a percentage, I feel strong-armed and that's likely all you will get. So if you do it as a matter of policy, you're screwing yourself over when you deal with people like me, who are normally more generous.


edit on 5/4/2012 by schuyler because: (no reason given)



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