Israel holds over 370 Palestinian children captive

reply to post by Signals


No, day after day no-one can report anything on Israel without being condemed. How many times have I stated this si a Children issue? Have i made a single remark of a negative nature towards Israeli's or Jewish people, besides perhaps saying "the veil of Israel"? My Grandma is Jewish give me a break. People like you are what piss me off everything anyone says instanly is bashing the jewish people when you have to fabricate your whole arguement because it doesnt exist.
If hezzbollah is in-fact decapitating children please provide info i will be just as enraged.
The fact is you came on here had on opinion made up that you saw a news article that mentioned Israel and you didnt like that one but, so you changed it to "people are bashing Israel" when its bashing the unstructered, cruel, nature of war.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Maybe you should read a book or take a history lesson. But for grins Ill give you a recap...

The UN inked an agreement giving Israel some land for their own nation. A very small portion if I recall, The rest of the Palestinian lands was to be giving to the Trans-Jordan Nation. Then All hell broke loose Israel was attacked by A group of Middle East Nations. Israel defeated these nations and walked away with more land. More wars, more occupied more Arab land conquered by the Israelis. In fact Israel gave back land in won from Egypt. This is a very short synopsis of the past 60 years.

How come no one ask this question? Why hasn’t Jordan taking over Palestine in accordance with the original agreement?

Okay so, emotions aside, what would the people that call Israelis evil because of this prefer them to do?

Some of these kids throw rocks at IDF troops. Usually as I understand it that results in a night in the cells then they get released.

Some of them throw rocks at civilian cars travelling along the motorway, often causing death and serious injury.

Some of them throw petrol bombs.

What should happen to them? Slap on the wrist? Shoot them?

[edit on 24-11-2009 by mattpryor]

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by ModernAcademia

 

Maybe you should read a book or take a history lesson. But for grins Ill give you a recap...
Then All hell broke loose Israel was attacked by A group of Middle East Nations.

Heh funny, you got that from "your history" books?

As far as I see Israel launched the attacks.

On June 5, 1967, Israel launched a surprise attack on Egypt and Syria. Israel has always considered this a preemptive attack.[13] This is, however, disputed by Arab countries, who assert that Israel's strike was an unwarranted and illegal act of aggression.[14] Jordan, which had signed a mutual defence treaty with Egypt on May 30, then attacked western Jerusalem and Netanya.[15][16][17]

Source:en.wikipedia.org...

Edit for the derailers:

Who started the 1967 Six-Day War?

"We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him
(Nasser) ." -- Former Israeli PM Menahem Begin.

Israel has long claimed that it launched the Six-Day War in 1967 to
defend itself. Below are some statements made by Israeli leaders as
well as some report excerpts that prove otherwise.

Source: newsgroups.derkeiler.com...

June 5: Israel attacks Egypt, Syria and Jordan.

Source:i-cias.com...

On the morning of June 5, the aircraft of the IAF took off from their bases and attacked Egyptian air force bases in Sinai and Egypt.

Source:www.israeli-weapons.com...

"In June 1967, we again had a choice. The Egyptian Army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him" Menachem Begin. (Noam Chomsky, 'The Fateful Triangle')

"I do not think Nasser wanted war. The two divisions he sent to the The Sinai would not have been sufficient to launch an offensive war. He knew it and we knew it"'Yitzhak Rabin, Israel's Chief of Staff, in Le Monde 2/28/68

"Moshe Dayan, the celebrated commander who as Defence Minister in 1967, gave the order to conquer the Golan.....(said) many of the firefights with the Syrians were deliberately provoked by Israel, and the kibbutz residents who pressed the Government to take the Golan Heights did so less for security than for the farmland. They didn't even try to hide their greed for that land. We would send a tractor to plow some areas where it wasn't possible to do anything, in the demilitarized area, and we knew in advance that the Syrians would start to shoot. If they didn't shoot, we would tell the tractor to advance further, until in the end the Syrians would get annoyed and shoot. And then we would use artillery and later the air-force also, and that's how it was. The Syrians on the 4th day of the war, were not a threat to us." 'The New York Times, May 11, 1967'

Source: my.telegraph.co.uk...

# June 5:
# Israel Air Force launches series of bombing raids against Egyptian airfields, targeting 19 bases and destroying 85 percent of the Egyptian air force

Source: www.haaretz.com...

June 5, 1967: Striking first, the Israeli Air Force wipes out most of Egypt's warplanes before they can take off. Israeli forces move against Egyptian troops in the Sinai Peninsula and Gaza Strip.

www.usnews.com...

June 5

Israeli air attacks against Egypt begin in the morning.

Source: www.npr.org...

Try again, better next time.

Originally posted by mattpryor
Okay so, emotions aside, what would the people that call Israelis evil because of this prefer them to do?

Some of these kids throw rocks at IDF troops. Usually as I understand it that results in a night in the cells then they get released.

Some of them throw rocks at civilian cars travelling along the motorway, often causing death and serious injury.

Some of them throw petrol bombs.

What should happen to them? Slap on the wrist?

First and Foremost THANKYOU!!!!!
For actually adding to a conversation with a logical question. You make some great points anywhere in the world throwing rocks at cars is illegal and i have heard of people being killed of that nature so true they would be detained elsewhere.
Looking at the Geneva convention this story could have both sides violating its regulations, it states:

"The United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, Article 38, (1989) proclaimed: "State parties shall take all feasible measures to ensure that persons who have not attained the age of 15 years do not take a direct part in hostilities." However, minors who are over the age of 15 but still remain under the age of 18 are still voluntarily able to take part in combat as soldiers. The Optional protocol on the involvement of children in armed conflict to the Convention that came into force in 2002 stipulates that its State Parties "shall take all feasible measures to ensure that persons below the age of 18 do not take a direct part in hostilities and that they are not compulsorily recruited into their armed forces".

So if these children were recruited or egged on by Hezzbollah to throw these rocks then Hezzbollah would be in violation of the charter.

Counter to that:
the Paris Principles state that children who participated in armed conflict:

... who are accused of crimes under international law allegedly committed while they were associated with armed forces or armed groups should be considered primarily as victims of offences against international law; not only as perpetrators. They must be treated in accordance with international law in a framework of restorative justice and social rehabilitation, consistent with international law which offers children special protection through numerous agreements and principles.[12]

The issue with the article is it only states the conditions in which the children are being held, it does mention physchological abuse but that may be here say. The article does not hit on the intentions that the Israeli's have with the detainees. So the conditions they are currently being held (according to the article) in my opinion violate Geneva conventions but their current intent on the detention is not known.

reply to post by December_Rain


Yes Isreal did start the 6 day war. There is no denying that, However the arabs did launch attack on them in 1948, which is what I was refering to the large amounts of land gained in and still occupied by Isreal.

reply to post by December_Rain


What bothers me is you will state historical facts, facts this is what happened years ago, and yet you will be called a fascist or a racist or blindly against Israel. Since when is stating historical accuracies a form of racism? Is it racist to say the Hutu's murdered the tootsies? No, its definatly a sweeping statement as hutus murdered tootsies and tootsies murdered hutu but on the mass scale it was the hutu's that tried to eliminate the tootsies. Am i racist for saying this historical accuracy? No, the event was driven by racism, facts are sperate from emotions. Or at least they should be.
To get one step ahead i am in no way comparing the Rwanadan genocide to anything, im using them as a seperate example.

Go find Peace, Propaganda, and the Promised Land on google vids and watch it. Your history books? They're not always accurate.

reply to post by Hack28


I think that if a 15 year old kid throws a rock at a soldier, he's lucky not to get shot. I'm sure that if my country's troops in Afghanistan or Iraq were pelted with stones / rocks, they wouldn't hesitate to engage.

As for alleged abuse, it's certainly wrong in a civilised country, and if indeed it does occur then the bad apples that do it need to be punished and if there is a problem with procedures then that needs to be fixed as well.

The problem, though, is that the people who call out things like this are invariably the same people that call Israelis Nazis (check the signature of december_rain above). They're not going to get listened to.

reply to post by poedxsoldiervet


Israel pre-emptively neutralised the Egyptian and Syrian army. This was after Egypt had expelled UN peace keepers from the Sinai and amassed their troops and airforce at Israel's border. All the while continuing the hateful rhetoric promising to drive the Jews to the sea. And don't forget that the Syrians were shelling northern Israeli towns and villages.

Israel, which was tactically weak, had two choices - strike first, or take the chance of being destroyed.

Originally posted by mattpryor
The problem, though, is that the people who call out things like this are invariably the same people that call Israelis Nazis (check the signature of december_rain above). They're not going to get listened to.

Calling the actions of the Israeli govt. nazi-like is NOT calling israelis nazis

Even americans called the bush administration nazis, and i'm sure they in turn didn't mean to call themselves nazis in the process.

Israel is not a country as much as it is a militarized state.
More than anything that's what it is.
Because of that a closer look at their policies is imperative, especially during an apartheid.

reply to post by mattpryor

Yeah, it really sucks when your country is being invaded, your homes leveled, and your life basically turned upside down to think that you might in some way, out of frustration if nothing else, be able to retaliate.

Did you really just say this? Someone would "retaliate?" What's a rock going to do to a big bad tank? You'd really retaliate? By what? Blowing their heads off with a missile. Sorry but what you said just made me physically ill to think about. Retaliation against kids.


[edit on 24-11-2009 by ~Lucidity]

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Are you at all familiar with what's going on in Palestine?
Even 1% knowledgable of what's going on there?

Blowing themselves up in the name of Allah??????

Holy Ignoramus Batman....
Dude, read a book or something

Do you have ANY idea what's going on there?

These people want freedom and their land bank, it has ZERO relevance with religion. It's Israelis on the other hand that believe the land was given to them by god.

unbelievable some people
what a comment

Zero relevance? Are you kidding me? Yes, I do have an idea, a very good idea what's going on......My view, however, doesn't match yours....so I'm an Idiot that doesn't read books...Okay. Please re-read that first paragraph of my response...You know it makes sense...common sense. Those young Palestinians have been given a new lease on life, time to think about what they are doing. How can you not see that?

reply to post by ~Lucidity


I dare you to go and throw rocks at US troops and see what happens. Tanks or no tanks.

Come back here and let me know.

After you've finished being sick

You're correct and war isn't a pretty thing; especially when children are drawn into it. The thing we must all remember is that we are immortal beings inhabiting a mortal body and the end of our life is simply the beginning of a new chapter and not the end that everyone fears.

Anyway we had best all get used to the realities of war because WWIII is starting and war is breaking out on all corners of the Earth.

Venezuela has told their troops to prepare for war against Columbia/US
Japan is arming up their Navy to defend themselves against China
Syria and Iran are developing Nuclear weapons
Russia is re-purposing a great deal of their nuclear weapons to be used in smaller preemptive strikes.
Nearly every country surrounding Israel have been arming up their borders.
We are currently at war in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan.

None of this includes the smaller conflicts in the under developed parts of the world.

My advice is be prepared for the realities that come with a Global conflict, filter through the propaganda to determine whether or not you truly agree with the wars and more importantly the side your government is likely to take. Don't be surprised if the draft is re-enacted and although I STRONGLY believe it is better to die for something than to live for nothing. I also feel strongly that you should believe in the cause. Otherwise you are likely to have the blood of innocents on your hands.

reply to post by Signals


Please explain to me what this new lease on life is and how it was given to them?

Please define that event as I have no idea what you are refering to, and I suspect neither do you

reply to post by joshuacrumbaugh


I find it interesting the mention of WWIII, i was watching WWII in HD the other day on History Channel and i was honestly a little suprised to see how much of the world had already been taken over by the Nazis and the Americans still not thinking it could affect them. Only after Pearl did the US realize they were in the thick of it.
The thing that caught me off guard was how much was going on, on the global scale, and yet it could still be perceived from a North American stand point as "non threatening".
The current state of the world runs some parrallels to this thinking, sure we know its bad we all know its bad, but the potential risk of how bad i dont think is usually discussed.

I'm not sure it's a matter of who started the war anyway. The land was originally Israel's then it was lost...well that cycle has repeated itself again and again. The fact is if we are going to argue that they obtained the land illegally then the same argument can be made by the Native Americans. Throughout history land has been gained and lost through war and any country that has lost their land should have the right to wage war against another country to regain control. Same goes for the Palestinians; now I'm Jewish so I hope and pray that they never make any headway and furthermore that we rebuild Temple Mounte, but it is within their right to fight for the land...just as it is within Israel's right to defend it even against "children."

Frankly, global governance in my opinion has caused more war by interfering with conflicts and not allowing them complete their course. It's very similar to the current state of our economy; if TPB would have left the market alone and allowed it to correct itself we would all be better of now, but instead they meddled and now there is far more correcting the market has to undergo before we will be back to business as usual.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Okay, the event (from the OP) - Israel is currently holding captive more than 370 child detainees; all under the age of 18.

Those children are the puppets of Hezbollah, they have been programmed to throw rocks/cause havoc/whatever they did that got them locked up. By locking them up, they ~should~ have time to think about where their life is going, why they committed acts of violence, etc. Then, when they get out of the system, they can make a positive, non-violent, re-entry into society, and take up their cause in a smarter way.

OR.....I could just be crazy, that is very possible....Nice discussing things with you, I am off to read my first book! (any suggestions???)

Originally posted by Signals
Those children are the puppets of Hezbollah, they have been programmed to throw rocks/cause havoc/whatever they did that got them locked up.

They haven't been programmed to do anything

Please picture this if you would

A muslim country invades Texas, takes up part of Texas and allows small strips to be given to Texans so they can live there.

A wall around their strip is created, if they come too close to that wall they will be fired upon.
Robot Snipers all throughout the top of the wall pointing into Texas, turning their homes into maximum security prisons.

an embargo on texas is implemented to restric imports and exports.

What would texans do?
Well of course they would fight back, they would throw rockets towards the area where the muslims are right? Of course they would fight back.

Suppose muslim tanks pass by, texan kids revolt their presence by throwing rocks at them.
Are these texan kids brainwashed by their texan parents or just frustrated of the blockade and opression?

Because rockets are sent to the muslim areas the muslims decide to attack via air with missiles, white phosphorus and other such things. Doctors are assasinated, businesses are destroyed, all medical supplies are halted going into the texas strip to help victims and hospitals are also attacked.

Texans will continue to just take it?

See you think this is specific to palestine but it's not
You create an oppressive apartheid on any community and rocks, rockets and the kitchen sink will be thrown at you, make no mistake.

Originally posted by Signals
Any suggestions on books

3-part Series Book
Why this?
Because it will give you a better understanding that actions have reactions.

www.amazon.com...=pd_bxgy_b_img_b

www.amazon.com...

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