Hatred for Christians

reply to post by troubleshooter



I wasn't aware he spoke english 2000 years ago?man he was good.

actually if you take all the quotes of jesus and only used those there would be a much stronger argument for your position.

but when they assembled the bible they let anyone who wrote something in too.
it's like a readers digest in there,I'm just surprised there aren't coupons in it too.
I want to see what wasn't allowed into it,but the Vatican wouldn't allow that I'm sure.

reply to post by On the Edge

I'm saying,if it comes down to being told to worship anyone other than the Lord,Jesus Christ,I would rather die.

Well no one is telling you that so "live long and prosper"

Revelation says many will be beheaded for what they believe.

Which they were at the time, and it looks like payback was got by the countless that suffered for what they chose not to believe, ah the sweet smell of tyranny.

Luke 12:4-5 says,"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more...fear Him who after the killing has the power to throw you into Hell." (I can just hear the howls that quote is going to bring!)

See, there we go again everyone's off to hell to suffer, for goodness sake dude leave it out, gloating on the suffering of others is quite repugnant you know .

reply to post by moocowman

gloating on the suffering of others is quite repugnant you know .

Improper use of the term Gloating. Does not apply.
Man did this thread ever jump out the gate.

[edit on 24-11-2009 by randyvs]

Originally posted by moocowman
We can see clearly time and again just here on ATS very few xtians are in agreement on their interpretation of the bibles and often imply they are open to individual interpretation.

There is nothing except secular law, stopping the verses being taken as read and this is where xtianity has made a rod for it's own back.

the bible is open to interpretation by christians, sorry if that's annoyingly vague but it just is. it has to be.

the basis of the story of jesus, the first act as "christ", was a mental battle with satan in the desert. (stop laughing, i'm making a point) in this battle, satan uses, what we would call bible verses, to tempt jesus to worship him.

at the heart of christianity is the idea that religious teachings can be used for good or bad and that we have to use our reason, knowledge and conscience to work out what way we should understand them.

so, "christianity" doesn't hold the bible to be justification for anything immoral, some christians do, but as i've been saying, anything can be used as justification.

see the milgram experiment.

Because most christians treat jesus like the home team. They put christian fish on their cars like a sports team logo and go to church on Sunday like they watch a game on Monday while putting stupid quotes on their church signs for recruitment. The problem is, most christians would never stand out in any sort of crowd if they didn't have a jesus shirt on, yet are quick to tell you that they are "saved" because they chose to believe something you didn't for no good reason (other than the bible says fill in the blank.) Most christians are like a guy that yells into his tv from the couch believing that he could be a better coach to whatever sports team he's watching even though he's never played the game in his life. If most christians were well-versed in their actual religion (at least more-so than random preacher quotes from the King James Version,) lived a "jesus-like" somewhat righteous life, and had more to show from their "beliefs" than a "jesus rocks" sticker then they probably wouldn't be hated as much.

With the exception of #4, you've listed the reasons that I, as an atheist, hate all structured religions. However, I don't run around saying "you suck because you are (insert religion here)!"

As far as number #4 goes, it makes for some good jokes at work, but I wouldn't let a Catholic priest near my 15 year old son.

I personally think (and I haven't read the thread out yet) that a good portion of it is because Christianity is such a huge blanket name for so many smaller religions, that it just becomes the most common way to address it somebody says "It's all in the name of God".

I think some people are just completely intolerant of other peoples beliefs, so they attack.

Originally posted by the_grand_pooh-bah
reply to post by troubleshooter

 

I wasn't aware he spoke english 2000 years ago?man he was good.

He spoke Aramaic and his words were recorded in Koine Greek...
...a language I am proficient in.

actually if you take all the quotes of jesus and only used those there would be a much stronger argument for your position.

I agree, there are 'red letter' versions available that do just that.

You should try this too...
...get a list of all His words and read them through a couple of times...
...then see how often they come to mind in response to domestic, work and political issues.

but when they assembled the bible they let anyone who wrote something in too.
it's like a readers digest in there,I'm just surprised there aren't coupons in it too.
I want to see what wasn't allowed into it,but the Vatican wouldn't allow that I'm sure.

Christians originally were a 'body' of believers...
...but about the 3rd century under Constantine they became a business.

Q: What is a body called when it becomes a business?

Originally posted by Mekanic
With the exception of #4, you've listed the reasons that I, as an atheist, hate all structured religions. However, I don't run around saying "you suck because you are (insert religion here)!"

As far as number #4 goes, it makes for some good jokes at work, but I wouldn't let a Catholic priest near my 15 year old son.

Would you let a public school teacher near your 15 year old son because they molest kids in exponentially greater numbers than priests. And if you don't have the same fear, then it really is just a matter of prejudice.

reply to post by factbeforefiction


I don't trust public school teachers either, but while I can keep my kids out of church, I can't keep them out of schools.

I'm new at all this ATS so sorry if i reply to the wrong person or something.

to troubleshooter-impressive with the language skills.but what of the non-jesus quotes in the bible?should i kill my children if they disobey?should i pull out my eye if i can't stop looking at my neighbor's wife?I'm only staring cuz my eyesight is bad...

to other dude(sorry forgot your name)-trying to keep a 15yr old boy from sex is pointless,I remember being 15.just make sure there are condoms in your house he can get to.
we can make all the laws we want about sex,nature(or god if you will) doesn't seem to care.

Originally posted by the_grand_pooh-bah
I'm new at all this ATS so sorry if i reply to the wrong person or something.

Got ya...

to troubleshooter-impressive with the language skills.but what of the non-jesus quotes in the bible?should i kill my children if they disobey?should i pull out my eye if i can't stop looking at my neighbor's wife?I'm only staring cuz my eyesight is bad...

The Bible is not really a book but a collection of sixty-six manuscripts written by forty-four different people over more than 3000 years.

Each document was written within a historical context...
...some where just historic documents, others were letters, poetry or prophetic apocalyptic works.

They all contain idiomatic analogies, language and cultural references that are easily misunderstood by us.

Even in our own time the meaning of words change from one generation to the next.

The harsh penalties you have mentioned were specific to a people and their circumstance...
...and once the circumstance is understood, the commands would be seen as justified by most reasonable people.

If you give me a specific example I will demonstrate what I mean.

to other dude(sorry forgot your name)-trying to keep a 15yr old boy from sex is pointless,I remember being 15.just make sure there are condoms in your house he can get to.
we can make all the laws we want about sex,nature(or god if you will) doesn't seem to care.

Yes, that is the human condition...rules increase the likelihood of offence...
...but we will not be saved or lost because of anything we do...
...only if we fail to accept the solution.

Originally posted by Muckster
reply to post by jinx880101

 

Such behavior must be expected from a site like this, people have views that are worlds apart. I do not agree that Atheists hate Christians, I believe they dislike what religion has done to humanity as a whole. Personally, I have seen some nasty behavior coming from so called 'Christians' towards Atheists or anyone that questions their beliefs. So I suppose it's a matter of tit for tat, what you reap is what you sow- I think it's called Karma.

I never said all Atheists hate Christians... Please forgive me if I gave that impression... i Believe it is only a minority of Atheists who hate Christians... I just want to know why!!

I have experienced this hatred first hand... I have had things said to me in the work place that are so bigoted, if they were used in the same way regarding sex or colour the person would lose their job.

But, for some reason, it is acceptable to poke fun at and abuse Christianity.

I am well aware that others also suffer from bigotry and abuse... but if I want to discuss those issues I will start another thread.

peace

It's acceptable to poke fun at Christians because you Choose your faith - you don't choose your sex or race. But to answer your question, in general, I think Christians are experiencing abuse these days because - and you said it earlier, pay back is a *snip*. But more to the point, I don't know anyone who hates Christanity. I do know alot of people who don't like Christians. This distinction has been made before but it should be repeated... and even Ghandi said, " I like your Christ, I do not like your christians - they are so unlike your Christ." That is the crux of the problem. Modern Christianity - it seems to me, has become the anthithesis of what Christ himself is said to have preached. IMHO it has become a shallow, greedy, judgemental and fear mongering machine designed to further it's own diabolical ends. And just to throw this out there - maybe the Church IS the Antichrist?

Now, that is not to say that there aren't some truly Christ like Christians out there - I know a few and bless your hearts, you have alot of work to do. If you want to see a change then, to quote Ghandi agian - Be the change you wish to see in the world. Christanity - just like Islam should be reformed with a sole focus on Jesus' message - I'd even loose every scripture not having to do with Christ. Matter of fact, I'd loose everything but Christ's own words - you know, everything but the red letters.

American Non-christians ...I'm a former christian... are inundated with modern Christian imagery, word and philosophy every day. It's every where, especially if you live in the South like I do. And unfortunately, it's difficult to not become jaded against Christainity when it's constantly in your face. I realize this is a great comfort to Christians because it reaffirms your personal philosophy and world view. If I were a Christian - it would be a great comfort to me. However, for those of us who aren't - the constant bombardment of this religious propaganda (and that's what it's become) only serves to remind us that - you guys only care about the rest of us if we "buy in" (and I mean that phrase both literally and figuratively) into your program. And, in feeling that way - we become resentful.

On a personal note - I've had alot of Christians tell me point blank , and in the most remorseless tone, that I would burn in hell for eternity for things I had no control over. This caused me a great deal of pain and self loating - and it came from the very people I thought I could rely on to raise me up and support me. In my experience, the Church failed me at every turn so I took my happiness, my soul and salvation into my own hands and found a religious system where I felt loved and welcomed.

Well, that's my two cents.

[edit on 11/24/09 by WickedStar]

OK just to prove a point...

Early in this debate riley said...

This entire thread is meant to bait atheists... Then of course you can cry "I'm persecuted" when they take the bait. Hey maybe another Christian can use the responses from this thread to justify yet another anti atheist/unbeliever thread!

As if suggesting that Christians are feeling sorry for themselves and are not really being victimised...

Someone else made a statement about Atheists being the ones who are persecuted on ATS and nor Christians (sorry can’t remember who that was)

So why then with a quick search did i find the following recent posts with anti Christian or religious sentiment...


www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...


I stopped listing at this point cos i could go on all day!

I think it is relatively easy to sum up what Christianity is...



As an atheist, I find religion irrelevant. As will everyone much sooner than you think. I just hope someone of your ilk OP doesn't decide to hit me around the head with their 'magic rock' before then.

The Para.

Originally posted by Muckster
OK just to prove a point...

Early in this debate riley said...

This entire thread is meant to bait atheists... Then of course you can cry "I'm persecuted" when they take the bait. Hey maybe another Christian can use the responses from this thread to justify yet another anti atheist/unbeliever thread!

As if suggesting that Christians are feeling sorry for themselves and are not really being victimised...

Someone else made a statement about Atheists being the ones who are persecuted on ATS and nor Christians (sorry can’t remember who that was)

So why then with a quick search did i find the following recent posts with anti Christian or religious sentiment...


www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...


I stopped listing at this point cos i could go on all day!

Just as you posted several links.. so could atheists. We could go tit for tat posting reactionary and bait threads as proof. You just created another one to add to the list.

..and you didn't even bother posting a conspiracy. :shk:

reply to post by troubleshooter

I must say you've impressed me.
I've found very few Christians know much about their bible.
most think it came straight off of jesus's xerox and floated down on clouds.

I don't have the scriptures handy for any direct quotes but i have read the king james cover to cover twice in my life.

I'm agnostic altruistic hedonist myself.
most of my god arguments can be summed up by watching monty python's life of brian.

I think the best line in the whole book is ''do unto others as you'd have them do unto you.''
that would fit in a fortune cookie!
why a book when a bumper sticker would do.

then they (early christians at a council) add if it isn't yours don't touch it.where has that finger been?that kinda stuff is where they went overboard.
god didn't say a whole lot of the stuff in that book(I'm ASSUMING here that there is a god)tribal chiefs did
Now we have folks running around believing every letter and making laws based on those chieftains stories.

And why this all this stuff about in jesus's name?are they charging something to his tab?
It seems the message is what is more important,not the messenger.

I'm sorry if I come across as a jerk.
I mean i am a jerk but not usually like this.
I'm a bit tired

[edit on 24-11-2009 by the_grand_pooh-bah]

[edit on 24-11-2009 by the_grand_pooh-bah]

I'm not particularly a Christian, but I think the whole bugaboo about Christmas and similar items (taking "in God we trust" off currency, etc.) is just an enormous waste of time. It's a bunch of politically correct garbage. Academics and others stirring up trouble where there was no trouble in the first place just so they can get their names in journals or the papers.

People often say "America was founded as a Christian nation." Well, I'm not sure that's true, but anyway for a long time the vast majority of Americans and Europeans were Christians. So why not look at Christmas in the sense of tradition and culture rather than religion...think of those charming old "Saturday Evening Post" covers of smiling Norman Rockwell families around the tree, stuff like that...even if you strip the religious componant from it completely, its still part of tradtion and national/cultural symbology. Why bother freaking out about it?

reply to post by Muckster


First off I would like to state I don't hate Christianity (just dislike and disagree with it) and that I am not an atheist (more an agnostic).

There's a lot more than the ones you initially listed. As for number 1 I think it makes sense that people don't like the idea of bloodshed and oppression in the name of God. You mentioned Communism but does Communism claim to save your soul from death and send you to magical heavenly realm? No it doesn't. I think many people read Jesus telling everyone to love each other and not judge each other and see the majority of Christians throughout history as ignoring the heart of those teachings and doing other things instead.

Here's a guy who was killed trying to teach people to love each other and what happens, his teachings are taken by the VERY people that had him killed and used to uphold their tyrannical Empire. Then later those same words of love are used as excuses for genocide, war, oppression, ignorance, torture, forced conversions. So it's the fact that Jesus's message isn't reflected by Christianity at all historically and that even today, though the bloodshed has lessened, it still remains a political and social tool of control.

As for number 2, many people were given little or no choice about what they followed. Many were filled with guilt and fear of divine retribution and indoctrinated into the faith as children who upon reaching the age of reason never had the heart to rebel or question their beliefs. Also, the faith is blind and based on no proof whatsoever except the claim that the Bible is true or that Jesus is really the Savior Son of God who will wash away sins. Anyone who believes the Bible is the Word of God is clearly brainwashed, no sane man would given the flaws, logical inconsistencies and self-contradictions present in that document.

3) I think you're right about this one. I for one could care less if someone comes up to me to preach or even mentions their faith, let them do that but I hope they aren't offended when I spill the beans about my belief that their beliefs are silly or founded upon blind faith. I think we should all be able to speak our minds on matters of belief.

4) I for one could care less about what the Catholics do so I really can't say anything on this one.

5) Most suffering is brought on by human stupidity but when there are ten year old kids dying of cancer one has to wonder where this God guy is and why he's not doing a darn thing.

So in conclusion I don't hate Christians, I've known plenty of good ones in my time but after being a Christian since I was a kid and coming to my senses and leaving the Church (and all human religion) behind I often do my best to debunk Christianity whenever I can. It's not out of hate for Christians or their beliefs but rather to set their minds free from what I believe is a false confusing and controlling belief system. I want to wake people up to the idea that if God exists logic science and history are not enemies of his but should make his existence more obvious and as Galileo said:

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. "

I'll make this short and simple.

Christians don't follow in the footsteps of "christ" like jesus supposedly wanted his disciples to do. Instead, you tell people what they should do/believe in(within your own ego, thinking you know "christ/god/whatever") then adjust your lifestyle to adapt to the constant change in the world everyday(survival within your own ego) while you condemn those that try to adapt to these same changes. You are hated because there are no bigger hypocrites in this world then yourselves, the "christians".

I'll just leave it there.