The Ugly Little Question Orthodox Egyptology Cannot Answer

Much of the ancient Egyptian knowledge was either lost or purposely hidden. There seem to be more allegorical clues than published facts, I've been studying the Egyptian Pantheon recently looking for pieces to the puzzle. Certainly the engineering accomplishments from the period indicate a powerful secular ruling class. How much Egyptian knowledge was lost by succeeding generations of rulers?

reply to post by fromunclexcommunicate

This may be true -- and there is no reason to believe that this knowledge was not gained through normal "Earthly" means. It doesn't take an alien civilization to figure out how to design and build a the great pyramid.
(and I realize you never claimed otherwise in your post)

If we could do it, so could the Ancient Egyptians -- and we could do it, with using only a simple drafting compass, straightedges, simple rulers, pulleys, ropes, ramps, scaffolding, chisels, grinding stones, and plenty of manpower. Especially if we had a couple hundred years of pyramid-building experience, like the Ancient Egyptians had. We may have some construction and technological "hiccups" along the way, but so did the Egyptians (e.g., the "Bent Pyramid").

We -- like the Egyptians -- would eventually figure out how to build a proper pyramid.

No alien intervention would be required.


[edit on 11/24/2009 by Soylent Green Is People]

Originally posted by Harte
It would be astonishing if they knew this.

If they did, why didn't they ever say anything at all about it?

Is it some big secret?

That's an insane idea.

Harte

Who knows? Maybe they did and it's encoded in myth... Maybe we haven't discovered anything about it yet... Maybe this knowledge was lost in the great fire of Alexandria....

Is it that hard to consider other plausible scenarios?

True too, they never mentioned anything about the Giza pyramids

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


Some of the subtle math that was built into the pyramids is beyond what we could do today without a calculator or at the least hindsight. I'm not sure how they did the math, could they have invented some kind of optical calculator? A device that could do much more complex equations than an abacus?

I suppose there might have been some freakishly brilliant math savants that could have worked from limited observations to the precision of the cycle of Earth's polar precession. Of course this was thousands of years before The general populace realized the Earth was round!

[edit on 24-11-2009 by fromunclexcommunicate]

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


I've heard many times that the earlier the pyramid was built, the higher quality it was.

how does this fit into your theory?

reply to post by fromunclexcommunicate


maybe something like the antikytheria mechanism, the worlds first computer that we know of from ancient greece

reply to post by fromunclexcommunicate

I'm not sure which "subtle math" you mean, but as I said before, if the pyramids were constructed using geometry, then there would be the "natural geometric" proportions built into it it by nature. One example of this I cited was "Pi". If a circle is used to design something, then that design would naturally have "Pi" built into it (even if the value of Pi is unknown to the designer) -- because Pi is a natural proportion, it is NOT an artificial human concept.

Originally posted by expat2368
Thanks for the post! I had not heard anything before about the Pyramids at Giza being at the center of the landmass of the Earth.

It would be REALLY interesting if one knew with some accuracy what sea levels were approximately 25000 years ago... and then do the same plot and see if the location is more or less centered on the land mass than with current sea levels.

I am totally convinced that the Giza site and a few of the other structures in the area are MUCH older than the generally accepted date and were constructed by a highly advanced society.

If you wiki or google sea levels as of the last ice age you will see that the sea levels where at least 125 meters lower than they where today, I would hazard a guess that they where alot lower (maybe at least 300 meters) than that because of evaporation (moisture has to replace the moisture in the air lost from the ice sheets). I wrote about this in a post by someone else that had a forum on this website. I won't explain everything, but you will be able to link to websites that will show how much land is exposed over the whole planet in a reduction of ocean to these levels and more.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Check these out and you will see that the Persian Gulf back then was all land except for a few lakes.

Originally posted by VonDoomen
reply to post by Soylent Green Is People

 

I've heard many times that the earlier the pyramid was built, the higher quality it was.

how does this fit into your theory?

I'm not sure what you mean by that...the Bent Pyramid was earlier and the design needed for that to be changed in mid-construct (because it wouldn't work as originally designed), and other pyramids prior to the Great Pyramid did not have the geometrical precision of the Great Pyramid.

Which pyramids specifically are you saying were of a higher quality than the Great Pyramid?

Originally posted by Scott Creighton
Hello ATS Folks,

Here is the ugly little question orthodox Egyptologists and scholars of ancient history simply cannot answer. It is a question that demonstrates with startling clarity that our ancient forebears fully understood and were thoroughly familiar with the landmasses of the Earth. How do we know this? Because they sited the most enigmatic and largest of all the pyramids in ancient Egypt almost precisely at the centre of the Earth's landmasses. For sure, there will be some here quick to dismiss this latest pronouncement with the same old, tired argumenmts we have all heard before. So, let's see.

The former Astronomer Royal of Scotland, Piazzi Smyth, in his book Our Inheritance in the Great Pyramid (1880) writes that "...proceeding around the globe due north and due south of the Great Pyramid ... there is more earth and less sea in that meridian than in any other meridian all the equator round." (p. 89)



The standard response from the skeptics is that the Giza location is NOT in fact the centre of the land masses, that there are other locations that have more landmass. From Catchpenny:

Of course, the earth is a globe, not a flat projection. Smyth's meridian (in green below) crosses very little land on the other side of the earth, while a meridian near 70° W (in red below) crosses much more land on its way round the globe. If by "meridian" Smyth means a half-circle, then the claim's accuracy may still be disputed (it is entirely anecdotal and no mathematical proof has been offered). It appears that a meridian a few degrees to the west (in blue below) would cross more land. Source.

On the surface it appears that there is a good case for citing these other locations as having more landmass. However, what orthodox folks fail to recognise or highlight (and it is plainly marked in Smyth's original drawing) are the NE/SW and NW/SE landmass directions from Giza. When viewed in this context then it becomes clear that the Giza location is indeed, as Piazzi Smyth claimed all those years ago, the centre of the Earth's land mass (highlighted in green below).



Question: how is it even remotely possible for a technologically 'primitive' civilisation such as the Ancient Egyptians - who we are told rarely travelled beyond their own borders - to have known this? Does this not smack of a civilisation with far more knowledge than is presently being attributed to them? Or is it the case that what we are in fact observing here is a 'fingerprint of the Gods'?

Regards,

Scott Creighton

[edit on 24/11/2009 by Scott Creighton]

Not a bad thread mate pity Greame Hancock has covered all of this in his book Fingerprints Of The Gods sound familiar??? But good thread apart from that

Originally posted by King Loki
that isn't even scratching the surface of what the Egyptians did in terms of charting ... they also had these massive stones strewn all through the desert with a massive "mother stone" that if u stood on and lined the other stones up it would point to a certain constellation of stars coming over the horizon .. thats not the weird part ... for along time archaeologists could not work out why all the stones were at very different/sporadic distances to the "mother stone". After a while they figured out that in ratio the distance that the stones that lined up with constellations on the horizon were away from the mother stone .. were as far as we can scientifically tell today are the distanced that those particular constellations are away from our planet


now my friends that is something to chew on ... how could the possibly know that

[edit on 24-11-2009 by King Loki]

You're refering to Thomas Brophy's discoveries concerning the late neolithic peoples of the Nabta Playa, (pre Egyptian, ~6,500-4,500 BCE). He's an astro-physicist and archaeo-astronomer who became interested in this site after applying his expertise to the great pyramid and other Egyptian sites. He outlined his hypothesis in his book "The Origin Map", which I've read, (it's pretty heavy reading if you're not an astronomer but his facts and figures are there so you can double check them yourself). I won't hi-jack this thread but if his hypothesis is true, the ramifications of it are far far FAR more astonishing than the great pyramid!... On many levels.

Here is a summary of his hypothesis based on the evidence:
Pre-Egyptians knew...

* the distances of the major stars in what we call Orion's belt, including Vega as a point of reference.
* the velocity of those stars.
* the distances of planets orbiting those star systems.
* the orbital distances and velocities of those planets in those star systems.
* our location in this galaxy (shown by an excavated stone under complex structure A, buried some 3 meters down which visually matches our milky way), also including the dwarf galaxy Sagittarius.
* they used a scaling method of prime numbers between planetary, solar, galactic, and universal scales. Their understanding of math was more advanced than what historians give credit for.

Only the central complex was fully excavated and two others partially examined, via boring down in the sand to take a look. There are roughly 30 total structures, most of which have not been excavated, as well as several other congregation of stones. This isn't even mentioning the calendar stone circle site a bit further north, which is pretty sophisticated but very do-able and understandable in those times, but it is required to understand the 'map'.

His theory is pretty valid actually, the measurements are there (1 meter = 0.799 LY). My only problem is that there seems to be a missing link. Our own solar system isn't represented out there in the desert (as far as we've discovered anyway). We've got the calendar site, the interstellar site/lines, and the planets that supposedly orbit those stars including their orbital distances and velocities, but oddly not our own solar system.

Anyway, if these people were that knowledgable it's no wonder that those pastoralists/agriculturalists mingled along the Nile, culminating into a civilisation who used that shared knowledge to construct the works we know today, including the great pyramid. Far before the construction of the great pyramid, the elite rulers/aristocracy codified it so that only they would understand and retain this knowledge to remain in power. (see the reliefs @ Luxor/Karnak, they are visual depictions/codifications of their understanding of physics, including some of the devices needed. It isn't the only place to look though.)

[edit on 24-11-2009 by Flux8]

i love when you guys post drawings with random lines cutting threw every direction.....way to add to the artistic quality of the original image!

Originally posted by Scott Creighton
Question: how is it even remotely possible for a technologically 'primitive' civilisation such as the Ancient Egyptians - who we are told rarely travelled beyond their own borders - to have known this? Does this not smack of a civilisation with far more knowledge than is presently being attributed to them? Or is it the case that what we are in fact observing here is a 'fingerprint of the Gods'?

Answer:

They didn't know they were the center of the landmass. They built the pyramids in the area they lived in. I would be more impressed if the Chinese went to Egypt to build The Great Wall there.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


By the time the Romans got to the Egyptian math it seems Base 10 was chosen to work with. Its interesting that the Romans made log functions of 10 important. The number 10 was represented by the Roman numeral X, 100 was represented by C, and 1000 was represented by M. This was probably a carry over from Egyptian math but I haven't found the link yet on the web.

Expressing Pi in base 10 digits appears to have been done successfully to 9 places. By exactly who and when is still a mystery to me.

Look, stop and think, yes it is very concievable only humans did this work. AS someone said they all had the same minds so even they could have figured it out. It isn't really that difficult to figure out that earth is round. If you look up at the stars in space, what did people think, or what do you think. Do you think you're looking at a glowing flat object, no you think of something round. The stars move to different places in the sky, and so do the constilations. This would bring you to the only one conclusion, the earth spins, and changes. It's not that hard to chizzle stone into a round circle or ball to make it roll or spin. Things that move have wheels.. .that are round.
I just don't find it that hard to believe that egyptians knew the world was round. It's already been proven that columbus didn't find america with the nina, pinta, and santa maria. It was china earlier in the century. There is actually a north star observatory which predated columbus in providence, rhode island. Do the math. The sailors name was Zheng He, and he had a 2000 ship fleet given to him by the leader of china at the time.
It's time we gave the egyptians the credit for proving the earth was round not flat. Of coarse I believe aliens existed back then as well, life is constant. Like someone said the pyramids had many purposes, and it could have also been unused to try to communicate with these other beings, kind of like how today we want to communicate with them. Today, in kazakhstan the government is building an alien embassy in hopes of gaining contact.
The last thing I wanted to wonder about is about those ugly questions that aren't answered. Everyone knows about the N.W.O and about the world elite, and about how they consider us little people without the knowledge they have or conceal. Ask, Did the elite and powerful know the world was round already in the times of columbus and Zheng He? Did the all mighty and all powerful in egypt conclude the earth was round., and keep that inform from the larger less powerful population. It is known that it was built in the off season of harvest to keep busy. Was another purpose for them to be built out of pure greed of knowledge they keep from people, and then used Aliens as an excuse to keep the little people interested and occupied, and disinformed.
We have to at some point that the elite and powerful always keep things hidden from us little people knowledge, that they protect. It's been going on for eternity. I actually think it is conceivable that the egyptians could have know all of that with math. I've never put it to test myself, but I think they also could have figured out their position on the planet just by chizzling little rocks into ball stones, an math. It didn't happen over night, like rome as some would say.
It's pretty easy to say now that it would be easy to figure out the world is round, and to also pinpoint your location on earth like a gps would, through math, and it is certainly conceivable. I have always wondered how, if anyone studies the history of pie, how could the egyptians theory of what pie was be incorrect. The pyramids are perfect, but there definition of pie wasn't. It begs the question.. Did the elite in egypt know pie and keep it to themselves. Did the elite provide the little people with a false pie equation to keep them interested, and not tell them they had realized through years of study and experiments that the earth was round.
As scott would say, it's an ugly question that can't be answered. Aliens have existed for a long time, and even the elite don''t know what there talking about most of the time, they just pretend they do. It's just their way of keeping us on their doorstep trying to get answers the don't have. They need us around, more than we need them, and they need us disinformed and curious. Anyway, most people who have had contact tell stories of being re tuned so we can see what the aliens want us to see that they say we can't see ourselves. Thanks

The Earth being a SPHERE ..............


Has no "center" .. that would be perception.

The middle of the Indian ocean could be the center. It could also be the top. Or the bottom. Same with Australia. Brazil. England, America, Russia, China etc...

Saying it was built at the center of the Earth is ... retarded. They were built aligned to astronomical markers in the sky.

reply to post by Anamnesis


Way to go, I'm sure there are countless others as well. Tomb

more like a precise instrument.

reply to post by Flux8


thanks for putting in the work flux, i couldn't find all the information but i remember reading it a long time ago then seeing it again on magical Egypt

so thanks .. and this is by far one of the most astonishing things i have ever seen from an ancient civilization

you should probably start a new thread with just this flux ... its to good to just get lost in the middle of some one else's thread tbh

[edit on 24-11-2009 by King Loki]

Originally posted by fromunclexcommunicate
reply to post by Soylent Green Is People

 

By the time the Romans got to the Egyptian math it seems Base 10 was chosen to work with. Its interesting that the Romans made log functions of 10 important. The number 10 was represented by the Roman numeral X, 100 was represented by C, and 1000 was represented by M. This was probably a carry over from Egyptian math but I haven't found the link yet on the web.

Expressing Pi in base 10 digits appears to have been done successfully to 9 places. By exactly who and when is still a mystery to me.

Why base 10 was chosen isn't really a mystery at all just common sense. If you want the answer count the digits on your hands.

Ps its unusual when a number system doesnt use base 10 now theres a mystery.

[edit on 11/24/09 by dragonridr]

reply to post by Scott Creighton


Isn't Antarctica a landmass?

How is that accounted for in the theory?