'Arrests made just to get DNA samples'

'Arrests made just to get DNA samples'

www.heraldsun.com.au

BRITAIN has built the world's biggest DNA database without proper political debate and police routinely arrest people just to get their DNA profiles onto the system, the genetics watchdog said in a report today.

The Human Genetics Commission, which advises the Government on the social, legal and ethical aspects of genetics, called for a review of the database and said new laws must be passed to govern its use.

(visit the link for the full news article)

The report quoted an unidentified retired senior police officer as saying that "it is now the norm to arrest offenders for everything" in order to obtain a DNA sample.

That's a very interesting article, if the claims are true. I'm not in favour of breaching civil liberties and privacy for the 'safety' of the population.

If arrested and found not-guilty, or not charged, then why should DNA ID still be stored?

While some crimes might have been solved due to the database, it does not justify having innocent people on the system.

"If you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to worry about" is not a reason to keep innocent DNA ID in a database.

www.heraldsun.com.au
(visit the link for the full news article)

reply to post by tezzajw


But you know here in the USA, they take your fingerprints.. if found innocent.. they still keep them for future reference..

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
reply to post by tezzajw

 

But you know here in the USA, they take your fingerprints.. if found innocent.. they still keep them for future reference..

Two interesting points in the Human Genetics Commission (HGC) report:
www.hgc.gov.uk...

There needs to be a clear and independent appeals procedure for unconvicted people who want their DNA removed.
All police officers should have their own DNA collected as a condition of employment

As JohnPhoenix would say, "Here in the US we fingerprint the police, too."

Given this information and the newest copyright laws in the UK, at what time do you Brits consider you have crossed the 'police-state' line?

Just curious.

[edit on 24-11-2009 by loam]

so guys what are your views on a newly updated version of the Magna Carta ?

i've just updated my self on it, and i think that we could make things better with a new version.

The UK leads the way on PC, well the Government does.

This is truly scary and I am sure in the UK it will spread. This is what happens when the people let the goverment have to much control. I think the british are good honest people and it is a shame they have let themselves go this far. They used to make fun of the french about how liberal they were. And now it seems they are the very thing they were making fun of.

For us here in the USA take a good hard look at this and understand if they could do this here they would. I wish I could understand why a good strong people like the british would just let this happen. When did the whole of europe become france?

Originally posted by Subjective Truth
This is truly scary and I am sure in the UK it will spread. This is what happens when the people let the goverment have to much control. I think the british are good honest people and it is a shame they have let themselves go this far. They used to make fun of the french about how liberal they were. And now it seems they are the very thing they were making fun of.

For us here in the USA take a good hard look at this and understand if they could do this here they would. I wish I could understand why a good strong people like the british would just let this happen. When did the whole of europe become france?

Well one reason I want to quit the uk is everything is becoming one big socialists paradise.
It was ok thirty years or so ago but the rot's been creeping in slowly but surely.
The only ones left are either too poor, too unwoken to leave.
After the general election in 2010 I think if any of the main 3 lib-lab-con parties get in the police state will be ushered in officially.

I can tell you now that if the police arrest you, for whatever reason. They will force you to give a DNA sample WITHOUT YOUR CONSENT.
If that doesn't ring out alarm bells, then I don't know what will.
Orson Wells warned about this happening and still the same old sheep voted for big government parties without understanding what the consequences are while the do-nothings who complained about things sat on their arses and did nothing.

Sorry but I don't want anything to do with a nation like that. The Brits are their own worst enemies.
A crying shame to say it, but it is what it is.

I have read about and interacted with this issue, and I can confirm three things -

1) It IS UNLAWFUL - there have been court cases fought over this issue, and the human rights commission, and other organisations have waded into the matter to state how illegal it is. Unless you are convicted of a crime, then there is no precedent to keep your DNA details. It is an abhorrent abuse of Maritime Statute Law that the police system is using because they are getting lazy.

2) To get your details erased off the system (or at least get an affidavit that your details have been scrubbed, whether they have or not will never be known) is an uphill battle. There is a legally binding process that you can follow when you want 'articles' pertaining you to be destroyed. I know of people that have gone so far as to have these articles destroyed in front of them at a police station - and then burnt by the officers - to make sure they had gone.

The organisation that is instituting this system is ACPO - The Association of Chief Police Officers, along with other high ranking Police Chief quango's. The government doesn't mind, as it plays into their hands beautifully anyway.

I know of journalists that have gone all out on this subject, including trying to get their own DNA removed, and have come away shellshocked. I suggest going down the human rights path first and foremost with this.

Another point of sticking is the magic 'pen'. If you are arrested, or asked to give a DNA sample - do not sign anything or submit anything that provides testimony that your corporation-self allowed your property (DNA) to be held by the police or government. DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING!!!!!! This is important. Because if they can produce no evidence that you agreed to them holding the material, it can be classed as 'unlawful taking' and potentially 'theft'.

3) This issue is damn scary. But I do wish Americans would stop trying to prevent us bashing them by bringing subjects like this up and saying "Ooooh you Brits are worse!"

For every Briton wanting to comment on events in the U.S., look at what is going on in your own country. You are losing your individual rights at a dizzying pace.

If you knew anything about the British culture and psyche, you will know that by saying things like this will cause us to bash you even more! And might I add that it will be a better quality of more damaging bashing!

You are right of course, Britain is worse, and in my view it is the primary battleground. But still...

The Para.

reply to post by tezzajw


Well if they want your DNA or fingerprints in the U.S., they don't arrest you, they just follow you around until they can collect a drinking cup that you discarded. Though I have heard of cases on those crime shows where they get a get a suspect to lick a envelope to send in some kind of bogus prize redemption form for Superbowl tickets etc.

I'm not certain, but I think the laws vary from state to state, but mostly people have to be convicted of a felony and then they all take a sample of your DNA.

I imagine if everyone's DNA was taken at birth and there was an equal playing field, nobody would care as you would be informed that you DNA was on file & perhaps it would result in less crime. Then again people who wanted to frame you would just steal some of your DNA and plant it in a crime scene.

The UK is the greatest experiment in eroded civil rights and constant surveillance.

Even more so than China, because the UK is really invested in controlling it's population and has a class structure to this day that would have the upper classes crush the lower classes under their boot heels.

So, to the OP, "duh", of course they make arrests to merely get dna, but you know what, they are arresting people not just randomly. You actually do have to be doing something illegitimate to get arrested.

Be careful.

Nabbed this quote from the dupe thread..

The U.S. constitutional protection against unreasonable search and seizure should protect citizens here, but no doubt the "unreasonable search and seizure" concept will end up being decided on by the courts and they could well decide that "public need" outweighs the "inconvenience" of being arrested.

Newborn Screening Saves Lives Act of 2007

Signed into law April 24, 2008, the oh-so innocent sounding Newborn Screening Saves Lives Act of 2007 establishes a national database of newborn DNA.

I find the whole concept of this DNA database creepy especially in light of some well researched conspiracies that involve ethnic based viruses that can be used as a form of genecide and ethnic cleansing.
I'd imagine this DNA database would be like a candy shop to those with nefarious intentions who couldn't get their hands on this wealth of genetic information otherwise through legal and above board means.
I'm sure this database is being used as we speak for more than just crime detection.