Gospel Of Judus Teaches 'Saklas & his Angels Created Adam & Eve,Not 'God'.Hence the Imperfection.

Well that at least explains the 'Us' & 'Our' in that sentence that has bothered me for ages now. Now, there may be a lot of controversy around the Gospel of Judas but I don't see it any different than any other book in the Bible.

But I guess all of us have asked this question to ourselves- Who is the 'Us' in the book of Genesis?

“Then Saklas said to his angels, ‘Let us create a human being after the likeness and after the image.’ They fashioned Adam and his wife Eve, who is called, in the cloud, Zoe. For by this name all the generations seek the man, and each of them calls the woman by these names. Now, Sakla did not [53] com[mand …] except […] the gene[rations …] this […]. And the [ruler] said to Adam, ‘You shall live long, with your children.’”

First of all, who is Saklas?

Wikipedia-

Demiurge (the Latinized form of Greek dēmiourgos, δημιουργός, literally "public or skilled worker", from dēmios "belonging to the people, public" + ergon "work"[1], and hence a "maker", "artisan" or "craftsman") in philosophical and religious language is a term for a creator deity, responsible for the creation of the Universe.

Plato has the speaker Timaeus refer to the demiurge frequently in the Socratic dialogue Timaeus circa 360 BCE. The title character refers to the demiurge as the entity who “fashioned and shaped” the material world. Timaeus describes the Demiurge as unreservedly benevolent and hence desirous of a world as good as possible. The world remains allegedly imperfect, however, because the demiurge had to work on pre-existing chaotic, indeterminate matter.

So, all is not as it seems to be & the more I read & research, the more confused I get...

What I do realize though or gather from what I have read. Is that 'God' is but the consciousness within all of us & everything around us.
Allow me to clarify-

The first and highest aspect of God is the One, the source or the Monad. Plato describes this concept (the monad or the one) as the Good above the demiurge, the good that is manifest through the demiurge and the work of the demiurge. The Monad emanated the Nous (consciousness) from its "indeterminate" vitality due to the monad being so abundant that it overflowed back onto itself causing self reflection.

Seems to me we have have been fed a warped view on what God actually is and what it stands for.

Now, I know what you might be thinking, Who created Saklas & His Angels?

The Self Generated-

JESUS TEACHES JUDAS ABOUT COSMOLOGY: THE SPIRIT AND THE SELF-GENERATED

Jesus said, “[Come], that I may teach you about [secrets] no person [has] ever seen. For there exists a great and boundless realm, whose extent no generation of angels has seen, [in which] there is [a] great invisible [Spirit], which no eye of an angel has ever seen, no thought of the heart has ever comprehended,and it was never called by any name.

The Self Generated is God (our consciousness & everything good that moves through us & around us). And bear in mind, it states that it was never called by any name...Yet, we call 'him' Yahweh' amongst many other names.

More....

“And a luminous cloud appeared there. He said, ‘Let an angel come into being as my attendant.’ “A great angel, the enlightened divine Self-Generated, emerged from the cloud. Because of him, four other angels came into being from another cloud, and they became attendants for the angelic Self-Generated. The Self-Generated said, [48] ‘Let […] come into being […],’ and it came into being […]. And he [created] the first luminary to reign over him. He said, ‘Let angels come into being to serve [him],’ and myriads without number came into being. He said, ‘[Let] an enlightened aeon come into being,’ and he came into being. He created the second luminary [to] reign over him, together with myriads of angels without number, to offer service. That is how he created the rest of the enlightened aeons. He made them reign over them, and he created for them myriads of angels without number, to assist them.

I will conclude with this paragraph which makes little sense to me. I'm not quite sure what to make of it- What comes to mind is that these are planets or heavenly bodies complete with a true consciousness.

ADAMAS AND THE LUMINARIES

“Adamas was in the first luminous cloud that no angel has ever seen among all those called ‘God.’ He [49] […] that […] the image […] and after the likeness of [this] angel. He made the incorruptible [generation] of Seth appear […] the twelve […] the twentyfour […]. He made seventy-two luminaries appear in the incorruptible generation, in accordance with the will of the Spirit. The seventy-two luminaries themselves made three hundred sixty luminaries appear in the incorruptible generation, in accordance with the will of the Spirit, that their number should be five for each. “The twelve aeons of the twelve luminaries constitute their father, with six heavens for each aeon, so that there are seventy-two heavens for the seventy-two luminaries, and for each [50] [of them five] firmaments, [for a total of] three hundred sixty [firmaments …]. They were given authority and a [great] host of angels [without number], for glory and adoration, [and after that also] virgin spirits, for glory and [adoration] of all the aeons and the heavens and their firmaments.

So many heavens and so many firmaments- Extraterrestrial life anyone?

Sources - Gospel of Judas
- Wikipedia- Saklas, Demiurge


[edit on 06/10/2009 by jinx880101]

Originally posted by jinx880101

But I guess all of us have asked this question to ourselves- Who is the 'Us' in the book of Genesis?

That's an easy one. The Holy Spirit was there in the Beginning as well as Jesus. According to the Bible.. Jesus was there before he was born on the earth as Gods son.

Even if you discount jesus being there.. there was still the holy Spirit.. so God could have been talking to/about Him, thus "US".

[edit on 24-11-2009 by JohnPhoenix]

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


As it reads in the OP, Saklas, who was created by the divine spirit fashioned Adam & Eve...

Saklas was the Creator of the material world. Not God.

reply to post by jinx880101


Yeah, but you did reference the book of Genesis, thus the reason for the answer I have you. If you would not have referenced Genesis and only stuck to the book of Judas. I would not have answered with a biblical answer. To me, the book of Genesis and the Book of Judas is like mixing apples and oranges.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


I completely agree with John on this one. It even states somewhere in the book of Enoch that the Son of Man, or Elect One, was with the Lord of Spirits from the very beginning.

reply to post by Agree2Disagree


But that is exactly what I'm saying. You can also check out my thread on the book of Enoch if you want. It was of much interest to me.

Did the two of you read the op?

I stated there that Saklas and his Angels are the Us the bible refers to.

[edit on 06/10/2009 by jinx880101]

reply to post by jinx880101


Yes of course I read the OP. I don't know. Perhaps it's too philosophical for me to completely grasp.

reply to post by jinx880101


Yeah I read it.. but I didn't answer in that manner because they are not mentioned in the bible.. this book of Judas I do not take as being like the bible, an inspired word of god. All the books of the Bible were written by Jews because they were in the know.. they were god's chosen people.. they had to know this stuff.. the book of Judas is so far removed from anything a Jew would have written concerning God, IMO.

Here.. check this out:
www.godandscience.org...

The Gospel of Judas if all about a Gnostic type of religion. The Jews were dead set against that kind o thinking. Therefore it cannot have been a real christian gospel.

[edit on 24-11-2009 by JohnPhoenix]

reply to post by jinx880101


what is there to be confused about? all judas has done is to call God by name ie saklas

in philosophical and religious language is a term for a creator deity, responsible for the creation of the Universe.

and judas was being taught by jesus a more deeper understanding of his philosophies. jesus taught the masses one thing but for those who had the mental capability was being taught something different. Thats like teaching clasical physics to one group but teaching quantum physics to a select group. both teachings are correct but one has a deeper meaning....

[edit on 24-11-2009 by loner007]

reply to post by loner007

what is there to be confused about? all judas has done is to call God by name ie saklas

Another angel, Saklas, also came from the cloud. So Nebro created six angels—as well as Saklas—to be assistants, and these produced twelve angels in the heavens, with each one receiving a portion in the heavens.

Saklas, along with the other Angels where created by the divine spirit (God). Saklas created us & what we know as the material world.

So no, Judas did not call God by the name Saklas.

reply to post by jinx880101


Aah teach me to read the rest of the OP post.....

Still not hard to understand as I already said Jesus was teaching Judas a lot more than he was teaching others of his disciples.
It was this bond that they had that Jesus had felt that only judas could carry out his wish and that was to be handed over to the romans. none of his other disciples would do it coz they couldnt understand unlike Judas. This is why Judas gospel was deemed to be herectical coz it didnt reflect what the other gospels had written.

reply to post by loner007


Exactly, but don't you think it puts things into perspective more so than the whole bible?

What sticks to me though is that we were created not by God but by Saklas, and that God is actually our collective consciousness, well, from what I can gather.

reply to post by jinx880101


I said this in another post that Jesus taught Buddhism . Theres a place somewhere in Tibet where they tell of a great teacher coming from the land of israel over 2000yrs ago. If you look at buddhism view of God it is the same as that of what Judas is saying. Bhudda is only a teacher in which you try and follow his teachings to reach Nirvana.

theres is a lot of info but heres a link to get started
reluctant-messenger.com...

[edit on 24-11-2009 by loner007]

reply to post by loner007


Now that's something I haven't heard before.... Thanks, I will definitely read more into that. Got a feeling it's gonna be interesting.

Edit to add-

Omg, I see what you mean. The years of Jesus' life that is lost to the Bible was actually the time he spent in Tibet & India...Then only started his ministry at the age of 30yrs.

Wow, I've heard a lot of people ask that question about the missing years of Jesus' life..now I can give them a reference..

[edit on 06/10/2009 by jinx880101]

Like I said this is mixing apples an oranges. The Gnostic view in the Gospel of Judas stems from the pagan cults that plagued Israel. You cannot take the pagan Gnosticism views and apply it to the God of the bible. They are two totally different schools of thought on religion. It is fundamentally incorrect to say you can use one to understand the other.

If you speak of the God of the bible the only source can be the writings of the Hebrew people.

if you speak of any other God, it is not the God of the Bible.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


Define Pagan- It's a matter of opinion. All the pagans did (amongst many others things) was be grateful for the sun, as they knew without this life as they know it would not exist. Sun makes crops grow and brings life.

How the world views Paganism is a warped view of how the Catholics twisted their beliefs as to get more people to join the Catholic Church. For example, Pagans where now dubbed as 'Sun Worshipers' or worshipers of a false god.

Paganism existed before Christ, so what else where they supposed to believe? They had not seen the messiah, so how could the book of Judah be a Pagan View?


Edit for typos


[edit on 06/10/2009 by jinx880101]

Originally posted by jinx880101
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

Define Pagan- It's a matter of opinion. All the pagans did (amongst many others things) was be grateful for the sun, as they knew without this life as they know it would not exist. Sun makes crops grow and brings life.

How the world views Paganism is a warped view of how the Catholics twisted their beliefs as to get more people to join the Catholic Church. For example, Pagans where now dubbed as 'Sun Worshipers' or worshipers of a false god.

Paganism existed before Christ, so what else where they supposed to believe? They had not seen the messiah, so how could the book of Judah be a Pianistic View?

[edit on 06/10/2009 by jinx880101]

I am using pagan here as any religion that is not the religion of the Hebrew people. Most pagan religions held a gnostic view. The Jews would have certainly been against this. They would not contradict centuries of writing about their God by suddenly writing about him in a gnostic view. That's why I believe the book of Judas is false.. at the very least it is a different world view that the Jews would not subscribe to.


To answer your second point.
From a biblical perspective, God spoke to Man many times through the years from the time of Adam and Eve. He told man what to believe and how to act. Accepting that this is true, all pagan religions that sprang up were done so Not because Man didn't know of god, but because Man rejected God. This was before the Hebrew nation was born, back before the time of the Flood. It is for this reason that Man choose wickedness that God had to cleanse the earth an send the Flood. - according to the Bible.

There are certainly other views of God out there but you can't mix them with the God of the bible since that is exclusive to the Hebrew people as Gods "Chosen People" and their writings about their God.



[edit on 24-11-2009 by JohnPhoenix]

Sarcasm Alert:

Wow, I like this version of creation much better... It's much easier for me to accept that I am sinful because I am made this way, I guess I should just embrace my imperfection and do whatever I feel like doing.
I always thought that this world was made perfect, and then was currupted and full of death, disease, and suffering because humans chose to disobey God (increasing entropy which is confirmed by science). But a gospel written by someone 2000 years after Genesis, and then titled to be authored by the man who betrayed Jesus, who can deny its veracity?????

reply to post by kingofmd


Wow, you really sound like a true Christian...

And you obviously did NOT read the op. God, or the consciousness that is within us all is the good in the world.

It's much easier for me to accept that I am sinful because I am made this way, I guess I should just embrace my imperfection and do whatever I feel like doing.

Where did I state any of this in my posts? What brings you to the conclusion that this is the message I am trying to portray?

But a gospel written by someone 2000 years after Genesis, and then titled to be authored by the man who betrayed Jesus, who can deny its veracity?????

And when were the other Gospels written?

Jesus answered and said, “You will become the thirteenth, and you will be cursed by the other generations—and you will come to rule over them. In the last days they will curse your ascent [47] to the holy [generation].”

Judas had no choice but to betray Jesus, he understood that this needed to be done for things to plan out the way they did. Judas had a better understanding & understood why this needed to be done.

reply to post by jinx880101


Totally with you!!

You've read Mary Magdelene's Gospel too, yeah?

Much love...