YouTube War: SeeingUFOzPa vs SeeingUFOsPa

Originally posted by jackphotohobby
I'm convinced she's wrong, and filming planes, but in order to be a liar she'd have to be aware she's lying, ergo she's a victim of her delusions rather than a hoaxer. If she's delusional all of those people uncritically praising her videos are as much responsible by feeding those delusions.

I think she is both, delusional and a liar. I think she genuinely believes she is filming morphing UFOs but she is willing to lie to support this belief.

And what great parenting in that video, calling her kid a euphemism for female genitalia.

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex
I think she is both, delusional and a liar. I think she genuinely believes she is filming morphing UFOs but she is willing to lie to support this belief.

And what great parenting in that video, calling her kid a euphemism for female genitalia.

I agree with the first paragraph. How much those lies follow rationalising a delusion is difficult to disentangle. I think she genuinely believes that the comments she's blocked are by people out to get her. Now her account has been taken down it's probably reinforced her delusions even more.

I don't want to judge her parenting skills on the basis of bad language or her bonkers YouTube videos. I don't think the language was that bad, maybe a bit gauche but hardly an indicator of a bad parent.

Telling a child to point a laser at a plane is pretty bloody stupid though. Effectively encouraging a child to commit a crime. Especially given where the airports surrounding the area are located, because they're going to be coming in to land or taking off, the worst possible time to point a laser at a plane. Even if she's convinced herself it's a UFO.

If true. I have no reason to believe the video is manipulated, but should be kept as an unlikely possibility.

Edit: added last line to paragraph 3.

[edit on 19-12-2009 by jackphotohobby]

Agreed, there is no intent to deceive. I have no doubt hat she truly believes that she is filming morphing UFO's. My conversations with her made that abundantly clear. She is, to put it one way, extremely passionate about her beliefs. My attempt to discuss other possible explanations to what see was seeing was met with a series of long PM's that were completely devoid of logic and presented evidence that was easily contradicted or proven to be incorrect. Pointing this out, as subtly as possible, led to another long PM in which she basically accused me of being a disinformation agent because I ignored the "facts". I figured it was best to move on.

If that wasn't enough, this video is proof positive that she is not stable. Believing that easily identifiable and common aircraft are morphing UFO's is one thing. She has the right to believe whatever she wishes. She can believe that Justin Timberlake is the messiah for all I care because she isn't physically harming anyone. Shining MULTIPLE lasers in the direction of aircraft, regardless of what you think they are, is another matter entirely. She's putting people's lives at risk.

Originally posted by jackphotohobby
I don't want to judge her parenting skills on the basis of bad language or her bonkers YouTube videos. I don't think the language was that bad, maybe a bit gauche but hardly an indicator of a bad parent.

Perhaps. And you are right, she does worse things...

Originally posted by jackphotohobby
Even if she's convinced herself it's a UFO.

That might even be worse than pointing it at a plane, if it were some sort of alien craft. I understand the child's reluctance. Yes, let's provoke the inhuman beings from who-knows-where here for whatever unfathomable reason.

Originally posted by jackphotohobby
If true. I have no reason to believe the video is manipulated, but should be kept as an unlikely possibility.

There is no reason to believe the video is fake or manipulated. Considering her past behavior, it is in keeping.

[edit on 19-12-2009 by DoomsdayRex]

I know the backdrop of this is a silly battle between Allison and her acolytes and a sceptical wag, but I'm going to link the video again:



The videos of her firing the lasers have apparently been removed from her mirror channel.

If people tolerate someone pointing lasers at 'UFO's and those UFOs turn out to be planes eventually there will be a serious incident.

If there is an incident in the form of an aborted take off or landing, or worse, an aircrash, or blinding the following will happen:

Any/all goodwill between people interested in UFOs and pilots will be destroyed overnight. UFOlogy, in general, will have its public image possibly irreparably harmed. The press will get hold of the story and not distinguish between responsible UFO skywatchers and idiots. People interested in UFOs do not need to be associated with people pointing lasers at planes! Think the reputation is bad now?

Apologies for the bold but it's really annoying. Like a preventable accident.

Why aren't more people annoyed about this?


[edit on 20-12-2009 by jackphotohobby]

Originally posted by jackphotohobby
I know the backdrop of this is a silly battle between Allison and her acolytes and a sceptical wag, but I'm going to link the video again:

It's not silly anymore. It has become dire and she needs to be stopped. She is endangering lives.

So all you disinfo agents have succeeded in making her look like an idiot on ATS.... while MUFON has claimed copyright on all her "HOAX" videos..

come on guys you cannot have it both ways... if she is a hoaxer why did MUFON claim all her videos and get her Youtube account shut down?

From here it looks like a CONSPIRACY.

reply to post by DoomsdayRex


Agreed.

Being a pilot myself of the last 12 years, these types of activities are completely unacceptable and should be punished to the FULLEST extent of the law. I have heard first hand the accounts from other pilots who have had morons such as this woman point various types of devices at their craft; it can be quite unnerving to say the least especially on a final. The firing of a laser device at ANY kind of aircraft put the crew, passengers and public in grave danger.

This has now gone from your average brain-dead moron with the IQ of a paper cup chasing around aircraft with a camera and calling them UFO's, to a person committing a FEDERAL offense by maliciously interfering with the safe operation of an aircraft.

Just because one is illiterate to the laws regarding aviation regulations in the U.S., it does not excuse this type of behavior.

Originally posted by expat2368
So all you disinfo agents have succeeded in making her look like an idiot on ATS.... while MUFON has claimed copyright on all her "HOAX" videos..

come on guys you cannot have it both ways... if she is a hoaxer why did MUFON claim all her videos and get her Youtube account shut down?

From here it looks like a CONSPIRACY.

Saying something in Caps Lock doesn't make it any more or less true. It does make it somewhat amusing though.

Why are you so convinced MUFON had anything to do with her videos been removed?



For someone so keen to shout CONSPIRACY you take a lot of things at face value.

Are you seriously defending the kind of thing highlighted in this video?:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Is that sort of thing OK to you?


[edit on 21-12-2009 by jackphotohobby]

reply to post by expat2368


A conspiracy involving MUFON? Well excuse me, but perhaps you should enlighten yourself with the facts before making a comment on this particular situation. The fact that MUFON have actually come out and stated that they are completely against the impersonation of one of their investigators, not to mention the harassment of the woman in question, speaks to their position on this matter. Which you would know if you actually went to their channel and watched the warning video before making such an outrageous claim.

MUFON did NOT claim copyright or remove her videos. An unknown individual, pretending to be a MUFON investigator, was responsible for the suspension of her account. As it stands, it's incredibly easy to abuse DMCA requests on YouTube in order to have a video removed, and this particular case makes it clear that YouTube do not fully investigate these matters before coming to a decision.

It is my educated guess that the person(s) responsible for her suspension simply became fed up with the censorship of their comments and they simply decided to stick it to her by abusing DMCA notices, thus having her account suspended. That doesn't indicate that there is some kind of insidious conspiracy to silence what she is doing, merely that some people, when provoked, will go to extreme measures in the age old game of one-upmanship.

I had wanted to remain open minded that the audio of the SeeingUFOzPA video had been manipulated to make Allison look bad or worse.

I've found the original video the clip was taken from (re-uploaded by one of her fans):

www.youtube.com...

The incident is at 5:23. I'm now convinced beyond reasonable doubt the video from SeeingUFOzPA highlighting it is accurate (see the embedded video here).

I've used this (unreliable as it is), to download a 138mb MP4 version of the source. In case it is removed as part of a denial it happened.

I haven't got the time or inclination to sit through her other videos...

[edit on 21-12-2009 by jackphotohobby]

Originally posted by expat2368
So all you disinfo agents have succeeded in making her look like an idiot on ATS....

The only disinfo agents here are Allison and her supporters, people like you.

Originally posted by expat2368
come on guys you cannot have it both ways... if she is a hoaxer why did MUFON claim all her videos and get her Youtube account shut down?

From here it looks like a CONSPIRACY.

If anything, it was probably Allison or one of her followers that had the videos taken down.

[edit on 21-12-2009 by DoomsdayRex]

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Of course it is. Because you are either Allison or one of the morons suckered in by her delusion. Judging from your terrible syntax and over-all abuse of the English language, I'm not too sure you aren't Allison herself.

You are wrong, you are the kind of people that use those scams, not me. I don't need to insult people in order to make my point. This just shows your natural inventigation hability. You fail. Big time!

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex
You folks need to learn the definition of irrefutable.

I'm not one of your folks. It means that whatever you say, you fail proving otherwise.

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

If anything, these videos and your behavior demonstrate you have no respect for this subject. Allison and her followers have engaged in the worst, childish behavior, resorting to ad hominems and lies to defend their position; they never let the evidence speak for itself. And for good reason, their evidence is lacking.

At least, we don't insult people or pretend to be higher then them. What conforts me is that whatever you say, wherever you go, you just a low life with no respect for others opinions and points of view. You pic tells it all. Square.

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex
Not only is this an Appeal to Motive fallacy, it is unfounded and a common tactic of Allison.

You talk about her as if you knew her. Too bad for you all you claim to know about is BS.

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex
Yes, they are. No need for further explanation. They are. Any rational, honest person can readily identify them as planes.

I believe that's the point of the all thing. UFO's disguised as planes in order to fool the honest people too. But I guess you believe that an alien specie with space travel capability wouldn't be able to achieve such elaborous plan! (sic)

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex
Light travels faster and further than sound. An airplane seen at far enough distance will appear silent. Much like Allison, I live in the flightpath of an airport; I see an airliner flying outside of my window now, there is no sound. Should I assume that it's a fake airliner? Of course not. No sane person would.
Of course, it doesn't matter whether there is sound or not. Allison has shown that even when planes do make noise, she claims it is "fake noise" so she can rationalize it in support of her delusion.

Sure Einstein, so I guess you are one of the people that didn't saw the video with the "fake plane" fly-by without sound so you make your evaluation based on your window plane information instead of the actual videos. How nice! Guess you are very sane... Oh yeah! :S Speed of light>speed of matter>speed of sound, guess that's your math. Watch the videos and talk afterwards, don't make a fool of yourself to those who've seen it. Unlike you.

Those with fake noise appear in other videos on the youtube where you can actually hear them turning on and of the sound. Do your research, she did her's and based her opinion on that.

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Originally posted by Kyemin
2 - No FA lights

Untrue.

No, it's true. There are no FA lights on the flying objects. You see lights, but they aren't F.A.
What is your experties on this matter!? You must be a pilot too...

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex
Based on distance and position of the plane, of course it will appear the lights change.

Oh... and when they are in the same distance and flight route it's also normal to have that "illusion". How nice of you to have done your home work and see the videos... wait... again you prove you didn't see them! Ahhh! Great blind opinion then. Congrats!


To be continued...

I'd like to point out one thing. The fact that this silly thread has reached this many pages is a good indication of the state of affairs in this forum.

A thread like this is a good example of why such utter nonsense and tripe is defended in this very forum.

Those with an "open mind" combined with a lack of logic, reason and common sense are the reason why this subject is the laughable matter that it is.

You guys should be ashamed of yourselves, but...unfortunately....your overwhelming ignorance prevents that.

Reply to post by UFOAlienLover

Sounds like another childish bickering match between two people incapable for whatever reason of objective critical thinking.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex
Range finders...

Finding distance calculations in the woods, next thing you know they are trying to land in the midle of it! That's why the range finders there...
And range finders work as displayed in the video too... right... go see the videos, talk afterwards.

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex
Anonymous posts under pseudonyms on YouTube are not witnesses. Sockpuppets are not witnesses. Allison and her followers cannot present any corroborating evidence these supposed witnesses exist.

The last time I checked, there are people behing youtube accounts. They are witnesses. Again if you saw the videos, you'd see people with her, that actually give their names. Also you have videos of her interviewing neightbors that support her claim.
Where have you been all this time?! Giving unfounded comments here or doing actual research before opening your mouth?!

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex
No there isn't. She has videos of lights on the horizon or planes appearing over the tree line and in one case, claims a radio-tower is a UFO taking off from the forest.

Again, yes there are videos of those crafts taking of in the woods. There are videos where they are stacionary as well. Never saw a radio-tower taking off in any forest, meanless to say, that there wasn't one in her videos too.

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex
Fire who for what? We're all members here, no one is working for this or getting paid. We do it out of passion for the subject and joy of seeing people like you put in their place.

There aren't all members here. There are people who win money here too.
Next time they go to the restaurant they'll have a smile while paying the bill with your passion.
The day you'll be able to put me in my place, is the day someone will actually give a crap for your opinion.
Respect B I A T X!

Originally posted by Kyemin
They apparently look like mundane aircraft. How exciting.

Once again you are supporting your opinion with your window plane info, not Allison's videos.


Just to finish you off, I don't recognize in you any skill or hability to evaluate me, Allison or her videos.
When I say I'm Portuguese, I'll telling the truth as in anyother matter here, so please get a diccionary and translate my special portuguese message for you:

"És uma merda. Não vales os sapatos que gastas. Ofendes as pessoas sem as conheceres, tens o raciocínio de um rato. Pensas que são todos como tu, mas não são. Cresce e aparece, não é um estilo que crias refugiado atrás de um monitor que define quem és e o que sabes. Na verdade, não passas de um peão."

I won't spend another minute with you, I've seen your other posts and I know the type of person that you are.
When it goes straight up your ass, maybe then (or not) you'll recognize things as they are.

Be well and out of my space.


Kyemin

I would only like to know why is so often for you to insult people in order to make your statements.

Ignorant is the mother that allowed you all having such education.

I'm out of here, the only interesting people here will eventually show up in the good discussion foruns out there.


Too bad moderators here are too busy to actually put people in their places when they use insults as arguments...

Be well-

Originally posted by Kyemin
I would only like to know why is so often for you to insult people in order to make your statements.

Originally posted by Kyemin
When it goes straight up your ass, maybe then (or not) you'll recognize things as they are.

Originally posted by Kyemin
Ignorant is the mother that allowed you all having such education.

Originally posted by Kyemin
I believe that's the point of the all thing. UFO's disguised as planes in order to fool the honest people too.

Originally posted by Kyemin
Too bad moderators here are too busy to actually put people in their places when they use insults as arguments...

Thank you Kyemin, we will make sure to alert the mods to put you in your place.

In the meantime, feel free to browse thru the mass of contradictions above...



[edit on 21-12-2009 by NightVision]

BTW, Kyemin, I've taken the liberty of translating your Portuguese rant so the mods can make sure you don't come back. Childish insults of any language are still against the rules...

Originally posted by Kyemin

"És uma merda. Não vales os sapatos que gastas. Ofendes as pessoas sem as conheceres, tens o raciocínio de um rato. Pensas que são todos como tu, mas não são. Cresce e aparece, não é um estilo que crias refugiado atrás de um monitor que define quem és e o que sabes. Na verdade, não passas de um peão."

Portuguese to English translation care of freetranslation.com

Originally posted by Kyemin

You are s**t. Does not be worth the shoes that worn out. You offend the persons without them yourself will know, you have the reasoning of a mouse. You think that are everybody as yourself, but do not be. It grows and appears, is not a style that you create refugee behind a monitor that defined who you are and what do you know. In fact, do not you pass from a pedestrian.

[edit on 21-12-2009 by NightVision]

I'm not going to bother with a tit-for-tat refutation of your post, because it is pointless. Allison's followers are too deluded to see the truth. Allison and her followers behavior, much like her videos, speak for themselves. Any thinking, sane person will be able to see through you.

However...

Originally posted by Kyemin
I don't need to insult people in order to make my point...

Is that so?

Originally posted by Kyemin
...so please get a diccionary and translate my special portuguese message for you:

"És uma merda. Não vales os sapatos que gastas. Ofendes as pessoas sem as conheceres, tens o raciocínio de um rato. Pensas que são todos como tu, mas não são. Cresce e aparece, não é um estilo que crias refugiado atrás de um monitor que define quem és e o que sabes. Na verdade, não passas de um peão."

Originally posted by Kyemin
I won't spend another minute with you, I've seen your other posts and I know the type of person that you are.

Originally posted by Kyemin
What conforts me is that whatever you say, wherever you go, you just a low life with no respect for others opinions and points of view. You pic tells it all. Square.

And racist to boot!

But those are not the worst insults. The fact Allison and her ilk try to pass off these videos as genuine evidence of extraterrestrials, their asinine behavior, their lying and Allison's proven criminal behavior are the worst insults. It is an insult to any intelligent, rational person. It is an insult to anyone who cares about this field.