It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.


Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.


What I don't get about Jesus

page: 8
<< 5  6  7    9  10 >>

log in


posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 12:59 AM

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull

Originally posted by WickettheRabbit

I'll make another analogy. Believing in parts of the New Testament and not believing in others is like believing that Harry Potter was real, but didn't actually go to wizardry school. Why would you pick and choose to believe parts are real and others are not?

For the same reason that we can believe the Trojan war happened but remove the parts where gods and goddesses intervened on behalf of one side or another and disregard Achilles being an invulnerable son of a nymph. Harry Potter was written with the intent of being taken as Fiction while the Gospels were written with the intent of persuading primitive people to believe they were true. Also the Gospels went through many edits and it's quite obvious that when the Romans hijacked the religion they added in some things that would appeal to practicing polytheists... So the question is how much of the Jesus story is pure fiction and how much is based on a real person? It's not easy to say as the evidence is sparse but there is a lot of wisdom in Jesus's teachings so I prefer to believe that he was a real person but that the supernatural elements were added to attract people to the religion after the Romans took it over. You could easily be right though, the whole thing could be fake, but no one knows and so all we can do is speculate.

Jesus is real, I just bought a taco from him. He makes excellent tacos. He puts a zing in his salsa and he serves it with a smile. Thank you Jesus. By the way I was going to ask you if you could turn down Los Bandas next time you drive by. The repetitive Tuba really bums me out. It's like there is a circus where ever you drive. Anyway, Peace Holmes

posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 01:53 AM

Originally posted by Yacov
God will meet you on any ground you prefer- He says in the Book 'Prove me!'
and He does not lie

Why doesnt anyone study the Bible- there is plenty of proof that He was and is the son of God and His love for His creation caused Him to die for the whole world to rectify the sin/ death problem we all live under
Proof-its called historically fullfilled prophecy but most people want to tickle their ears as the Book says lol
Salvation does not come on a silver spoon like the spoon fed think but it is free for those who sincerely seek- He did say- 'You must be born again'
of course the enemy of their souls does not want them to seek
so there you are- the most important issue for any human being
nb it’s too late for the fallen aliens

so good luck
been trying to put a Chuck Missler youtube on on the Book of Genesis which is a good start but url corrupted but you can do a search- best Bible teacher around imo

Originally posted by LiquidLight

Originally posted by Jim Scott
1. He fulfilled the prophecies in the Old Testament regarding the Messiah.
2. He raised from the dead.
3. His followers who knew Him said He was, and died to prove it.
4. 500 others were also resurrected from the dead on the same day as His resurrection.
5. He said He was.

But what makes you certain it wasn't all a sham?

[edit on 24-11-2009 by Yacov]

[edit on 24-11-2009 by Yacov]

[edit on 24-11-2009 by Yacov]

Only according to christians, did the prophesys become fullfilled. Convenient, because the man is saving them and especially 100's of years after the fact with no actual witnesses of the events.

His book is the book of Isaiah. Read it.

Jake, imagine this. You, one day find out that you can live forever, but the catch is, your body will be cut up into little portions, so small that you could fit a billion portions on the head of a pin. You will always have life with this system, only you wont remember yourself for a REAL REAL REAL long time until those portions start to re-member with each other.

See your not the only one who is doing this "live forever" system. Each one who is doing it with you will have the same treatment done, so that all who are going on this forever trip with you will be scattered together with you. You and they are for the time lost, that is your, your individuality.

Each portion that you were split into will grow into a new life thus giving you eternal life that is, life age enduring, which is still yours, but you will have no Re-collection until enough of your portions are gathered back together again to constitute the memory of your blood. How do they reconstitute? The same way they always have. One man One woman join together and become one flesh a new creation...a baby. The new innocent savior sent in your name. (If you've seen me, you've seen the father says baby jesus) Know who the father is yet? Let you the reader understand. Maybe Yacov will become Israel after all.

I meaning all and the father are one. If you've seen me, you've seen my dad.

Jesus speaks in the third person because he is the third person....everyone

Human means Son of man.


posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 02:05 AM

Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Laugh at the image's pretty funny.

posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 07:44 AM
reply to post by Yacov

God will meet you on any ground you prefer- He says in the Book 'Prove me!' and He does not lie

Been there, done that, God flunked. Loudly, badly, and incredibly.
As for lying..................

posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 12:25 PM
reply to post by wylekat

Now wylekat, are you certain? Did God flunk or did your faith in God flunk? I presume you know the difference...

posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 12:37 PM
Actually there are items in the Bible that prove he is not the son of God.

First he misread the Bible, a lot of people do.

He started the Sabbath at Dark.

Why people hear "..and the evening and the morning were the second day.." and they think because this line starts with the evening that starts the day.

He created the sun and called it day, then the evening came, then the morning came and ended the first day and started the next day. The day ended in the morning and the next day started in the morning.

Does he not break a commandment by not keeping the 7th day holy?

Then he says pray to me to get to my father.

Does this not violate the commandment shall have no Gods before me?

There is more if you go into it, but I am already afraid of the backklash this post will get.

I can not believe I posted this. It's gonna get ugly isn't it.

You can not talk to people about Jesus.

posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 12:53 PM
reply to post by whattheh

Actually you can talk to people about Jesus, you just have to be careful which ones you speak to and be very selective with your words.

I think the few discrepancies you've posted are caused by the RCC. I really would like to get my hands on all the books and gospels that were not included into the Bible. I would like to decide for myself what I consider legitimate and not. I think the RCC is the harlot that rides the beast(UN/NWO) in Revelations.

posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 12:59 PM
reply to post by Agree2Disagree


What is the RCC?

I am sure I'm going to feel stupid when you tell me.

posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 01:04 PM
reply to post by whattheh

It is the Roman Catholic Church. And, remember, there are no dumb questions, only dumb people.
I just jokes, I'm sure you're very intelligent.

posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 06:16 PM
Some very good posts. What I see a lot of, though, is people taking their own subjective beliefs and calling it truth. I still don't have an answer as to why intelligent people believe in Jesus when there's absolutely no proof.

I understand that it feels good to believe, jumping up and down in church and throwing your hands in the air fills some with a sense of euphoria. But most people will realize that you can get this same feeling from winning the lottery or witnessing the birth of your first born. It doesn't mean Jesus is real, it just means you believe he's real.

I've tried to believe; trust me, I have. I've been to church, I've been filled with euphoria as the preacher yells about Jesus and salvation, but this is anything but proof; it's simply a release of chemicals. And if the subjective feeling of being filled with the Holy Spirit is all you have to support your argument, then I'm glad it gives you peace, but it's not for me.

posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 06:46 PM
reply to post by LiquidLight

The only "proof" you're ever going to find is indeed going to be subjective proof. If it weren't that way then what way would it be? One must have faith in his saving grace and to know Him and any experience of knowing Him is going to be personal and subjective. I'm sorry, that's just the way it is. We're not called to prove God scientifically, we're called to know Him...personally.

From the Tao te Ching:

We look at it, and we do not see it, and we name it 'the Equable.' We listen to it, and we do not hear it, and we name it 'the Inaudible.' We try to grasp it, and do not get hold of it, and we
name it 'the Subtle.' With these three qualities, it cannot be made
the subject of description; and hence we blend them together and
obtain The One.

Cannot be made subject of description...doesn't sound like anything that can be subjected to any of our scientific methods of verification.

So, the answer to your OP is "because of personal/subjective experiences." It's okay if it's not for you. We all make our own choices. I don't think any less of you, nor anybody else, for being different.

posted on Nov, 27 2009 @ 10:58 PM
well...there were many people claiming to be the messiah at this point in time..the reason Jesus of Nazareth was believed was because he fulfilled hundreds of prophecies from the old testament

you have to also realize the world was much smaller then..people knew of the things he was doing daily..also there were eye witnesses to all of these things..thousands when he fed the multitudes

also, they saw him resurrected...uh, read the bible lol its pretty easy to understand why he was believed over all others

posted on Nov, 28 2009 @ 02:05 AM

Originally posted by Jim Scott
1. He fulfilled the prophecies in the Old Testament regarding the Messiah.

No he didn't.
Which is why Jews do NOT recognise him as the Messiah.

Originally posted by Jim Scott
2. He raised from the dead.

Only according to some anonymous stories - the gospels were all written by unknown persons who never met Jesus, like all the NT books.

Originally posted by Jim Scott
3. His followers who knew Him said He was, and died to prove it.

No they didn't.
None of the NT books were by anyone who ever met Jesus.

Originally posted by Jim Scott
4. 500 others were also resurrected from the dead on the same day as His resurrection.

The story in G.Matthew of zombies walking thru Jerusalem does NOT mention any numbers - you have confused that story with Paul's claim of 500 who had a vision of Jesus.

Originally posted by Jim Scott
5. He said He was.

Only according to some of those anonymous stories.


posted on Nov, 28 2009 @ 02:12 AM

Originally posted by MajesticJax
Yeah, also how about: "This IS MY SON, in Whom I am well pleased".

The original passage read :
"this is my son, this day have I begotten thee"

But the church came to disagree with that view, so they changed it to that above.

Originally posted by MajesticJax
Kinda sums it up, don't it?

It perfectly sums up the fact that it's all myth and legends.


[edit on 28-11-2009 by Kapyong]

posted on Nov, 29 2009 @ 02:05 AM
reply to post by Kapyong

yes he did fulfill the prophecies..if you study prophecies many have a dual fulfillment

the messiah has two forms, the conquering kind and suffering servant..they wanted the king but got the servant..there are prophecies of both in the OT

and there is no proof that the gospels were not written by who they say they are...the gospels were written by eye witnesses at a time when many other eye witnesses could have disputed their claims, yet there is no record of any of these being disputed in that time period when there were thousands of witnesses...

posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 02:04 AM
I just wanna add before i forget and read through the rest of the post...someone said jesus was son of god and he was really an angel. something about book of enoch. you are correct and the bible doesnt dispute this in the old testament my says angel with annotations at the bottom is says the same word in hebrew for angel is the same for son of god so yes Jesus was an angel of the highest order he was a preist of Melchizedek (check spelling) thats a crazy story btw I dont even understand what it has to do with the new testament but it in there. I am gonna read someomore post through this i like this debate/thread.

posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 02:09 AM

Originally posted by reasonable

Originally posted by cormag
reply to post by LiquidLight

well people trust jesus a whole lot more then there very own gods. As i recall many gods of ancient times never offered salvation no matter who you were. It was more of respect, Honor and obey us or we strike you down. Plus many didn't believe in a happy place when you go bye bye. Only a place called Hades,underworld or netherworld in which they be punish if they were bad. Good people they would just rest in peace for all time.
So when jesus said hey look at me i'm the son of the one true god and if you believe in me as well as being good and nice to one another you'll go to a place called heaven instead of Hades/netherworld/underworld.

yup.. and 10% of your wages will guarantee you entry

That old testament curse, Jesus redeemed us from that crap there is no price needed to pay to receive the blessings of God, won for us by Jesus, promised to Abraham descendents, given to all who seek, ask, and knock

posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 01:39 PM
Hi Jonathan

Very pretty words I'm sure, but I doubt very much the historical R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean Nazir (aka "iesous') would agree with them:

See the various mangled texts of the Greek canonical gospel of 'Matthew' (whoever he was) especially in places like chapter 5:17-20 which forms part of the so-called Sermon on the Mount, with R. Yehoshua representing the Prophet Like Unto Mosheh, giving the New Law to the New Yisroe'l from, significantly, a Mountain top:

And Iesous said:

17 Do you think the Bar Enasha ('Son of Man') has been sent to destroy the Torah or the Prophets? Amen, I say unto you, by no means ! rather, the Son of Man was not sent to destroy the Torah or the Prophets, but to expound upon them.

18. For Amen, Amen I say to you: Until this heaven and earth melt away, not one single jot nor one single tittle of the Torah shall be altered, so that everything might be accomplished for righteousness.

19 And Amen, I say unto you: whoever among you shall ignore the least of the laws of Mosheh ('Moses', Whoever he was) or shall teach the sons of men to do so, shall be called the Least in the Kingdom, but he who shall observe each statute to the letter and teach the sons of men to do likewises shall be called Greatest in the Kingdom.

20 Amen, Amen, I say unto you: Unless your strict observance of the Torah exceeds the zealousness of the Sofrim and the Pharasim, you will not be able to enter into the Kingdom --ever."

We also read in the 3rd Gospel's appendix (whoever wrote the 2nd Volume aka 'Acts', in chapter 10) that Shimeon bar Yonah ha Kephah (Simon son of Jonah, 'the Rock' = Gk 'Ho Petros', = 'Peter') in an alleged vision 'upon a rooftop" stated: 'My Lord, never in my whole life have I ever eaten anything that was ritually-unlcean or not-Kashrut (i.e. not Kosher)" which means while he was following his Rebbe Yehoshua as 'one of the 12 that would judge the 12 Tribes of Yisro'el' he and the others held strictly to the Kashrut (=Kosher) dietary laws of the Jews.

Otherwise this whole midrashic legendary hagaddic expansion periocope would make no sense at all.

Maybe your Koine Greek is not quite up to scratch ? Either way, it seems that R. Yehoshua (like his brother Yakkov - 'James- the Righteous' ) was a stickler for Torah observances except in extremis (e.g. starvation or healing on a sabbath, which is 'giving life' not taking it) -- contrary to the misrepresentations of the 'Greek epistles' of the Greek-Speaking Cilician (now Turkish) born and thoroughly Hellenistic Saul of Tarsus (the capitol of Cilicia), who by the way, never met the man 'Iesous' in the flesh but only by way of 'dreams and visions' -- and who moreover (Galatians chapter 2) fought bitterly with the main disciples in Jerusalem who did know the man, calling them 'those so-called pillars of the Yachad').

Pauline Christianity has little in common with the more original Nazorean Messianic pre-Jewish War movements in Palestine of which R. Yehoshua bar Yosef was a part...sharpened swords on the hill and all.

[edit on 1-12-2009 by Sigismundus]

posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 12:31 AM
Still with the Jesus confusion?

On a website somewhere Jesus is posting a thread titled ''What I don't get about LiquidLight''.

This whole question is like questioning the alphabet. Why does ''S'' come before ''T''?

The story is instructing you. Read it.

posted on Dec, 2 2009 @ 01:23 AM
Contrary to an above post, and others as well, and to common understanding we don't believe faith is supposed to be based on the subjective or someone's absolute subjective interpretations. At least from a biblical understanding, that is if our sense of subjective is sufficient. Nor do we believe faith is believing in something that you don't understand. "You just have to have faith" is not an answer to a question. We don't think that just because someone believes something that it makes it so.

2 Timothy 4:4 ...will turn away their ears from the truth, and turn aside to fables.

I presume people would think faith is subjective reasoning because their faith is believing in an invisible God. According to the scriptures this would not be the case.

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse.

Our faith and our hope is based on being subjected to objective reasoning. For example, we have learned things about nature from seeing it as we grew up. Then we go to school and they teach us about things we saw a lot of but couldn't see it individually. Like a cell, or a molecule within that cell, or an element within that molecule, ect... Like we stated we saw a lot of them because that is what we, as well as other things, are made of. So why would we believe the teachers or the books we had to read. Was it based on subjective faith? or objective faith? Or with being so young were we just believing anything anybody would tell us? That's faith? To some extent young folks, and others, do accept things they are told about, but if that is purely the case they would not ask questions, and do so expecting an answer, not "you just have to have faith". Could you imagine if school teachers answered questions that way.

When it comes to the bible we always read, ponder, and apply what we understand and don't spend much time with what we don't. We find as you apply what you know you begin to understand the things that you didn't before. This is actually a common teaching/learning practice. Why would you teach somebody beyond their understanding. There are not too many kindergärtners that are college level students. So why approach the scriptures the same way? We guess people like to think they know more than they do and have others think so as well.

Interestingly the scriptures do say to test all things and hold firmly to that which is good. Atheists seem to take this seriously. Only they test the Christian interpretation and doctrines, which they find to be lacking objective support. It seems most peoples "faith" is subjective and those that don't agree with them look at the scriptures through the "believers" subjective notions. We are not ignorant of the motives behind this. If an Atheist believes that the "believers" interpretations are correct then have the Atheists been duped also?

Our Faith

[edit on 2-12-2009 by The Riley Family]

top topics

<< 5  6  7    9  10 >>

log in