What I don't get about Jesus

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix

Originally posted by v01i0
reply to post by LiquidLight

 

While not claiming anything, isn't there a possibility that 'walking upon the waters' is a metaphor, meaning that one don't get drowned on the temptations of world? See for example the alchemistic conceptions of 'waters', meaning that water is not the element itself (h20), but meaning rather the fluctuating tendencies of human psychology.

-v

[edit on 24-11-2009 by v01i0]

Not a metaphor. There are historical documents, not the bible, from historians of the time period that recorded that many of Jesus miracles really did happen.. It was reported unbiasedly just like a newsman reports the news. It wasn't just the Christians who knew these miracles happened, it was reported through the then whole known world.

I guess in 1,000 yrs FOX news will be considered historical evidence no matter what BS they were making up. Because we all know if something is old it is true.

reply to post by reasonable


LOL In a way you have a point.. but the historians back then didn't act like the journalist do today. it was looked at very serious business. Many of the historians only had their jobs because they were employed by the kings and rulers of cities to record history for the rulers successor. They had to be as accurate and unbiased as possible. Or, off with their head!

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


Heard those before: he walked on ice raft. Or more mystical one: He altered his physical composition so that he was lighter than the water.

But these are opionated explanations, presuming that he(the biblical Jesus) was a historical character, but about that there isn't much of historical evidence. Also, these 'studies' presumes a lot more than that.

Anyways, you are entitled to your opinion. There is no objective ground to start debating this issue, so it would be wiser to let it be.

-v

[edit on 24-11-2009 by v01i0]

Originally posted by v01i0
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

Anyways, you are entitled to your opinion. There is no objective ground to start debating this issue, so it would be wiser to let it be.

-v

[edit on 24-11-2009 by v01i0]

Oh. You are saying you don't want to debate this. O.k. that's fine by me. :-)

reply to post by LiquidLight


Many did call him a demon in his lifetime, it's in the bible. What proof do we have you ask, besides his word alone, he says various times and in various ways, that the Spirit will prove he is the Son of God, the Spirit proved to his apostles, even Judas, who hung himself because he was ashamed to have betrayed the truth that the Spirit told him, if Judas was a smart guy, believing that Jesus was a fraud, why did he kill himself after getting the bag of silver? The difference between Judas and the other apostles is the other apostles didn't fully betray Jesus, some got scared and sinned when their life was at stake but they repented and came back to spread the true story of Jesus, and the truth that the Spirit confirmed to them, that Jesus was the Son of God.

I'm not going to ask you to repeat a prayer and be 'born again'. It's simpler than that, all you have to do is ask God one single question, I recommend that it is a question that has been on your mind for some time, the longer you've thought about the question the better the results will be, also the more sincere you are in asking the question the better the results will be, God knows all things, keep that in mind, he knows that I'm typing this right now just as he knows you are reading this, you have free choice to ignore it and click something else, but if you choose to take the challenge and ask God that 1 question, keep in mind while you ask either out loud or in your head, that God is hearing you in real-time, and he has the power to answer you in real-time. He knows if you think it's a joke, he knows if you are too scared to ask him, and he most likely won't come down in person to answer you, he will use the Spirit to confirm truth and answer your question, for obvious reasons a yes or no question is easiest.
And I don't think there's any subject or topic that he can't answer, considering the fact that he knows all things.

Describing the Spirit is a hard one, it's not a cold feeling, or a ghost hunters feeling, it's a warm positive feeling, but it's out of nowhere, it sometimes feels like a hot shower on your soul, it's hard to describe, but you'll recognize it when you feel it. And after you've felt this you have not been 'saved' you have not been 'born again', but it means your on the right track, to some they might only receive one single big answer from God in their entire lifetime, I think everyone gets at least one, but how many people go beyond all logic, fear, intellectualism, and actually have the guts to ask.

He said: "I am God". I can say "I am God" too. Anyone can say it - and it would not be a lie.
In fact he said "we are God" or "sons of God"- but was censored :

Thomas Gospel - the censored gospel :

"Rather, the Kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living Father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty"

"It is I who am the light which is above them all. It is I who am the All. From Me did the All come forth, and unto Me did the All extend. Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift up the stone, and you will find Me there."

en.wikiquote.org...

The first peace, which is the most important, is that which comes within the souls of people when they realize their relationship, their oneness, with the universe and all its powers, and when they realize that at the center of the universe dwells Wakan-Tanka , and that this center is really everywhere, it is within each of us.

God is not a "person". We are. We are different manifestations of the same. By "we" I mean people - and nature, there is no separation. The entire planet, the Universe, there is nothing that is not "God". I view "God" not as a person.


[edit on 24-11-2009 by pai mei]

reply to post by reasonable


wow... what other topic would allow such blatant trolling.

I'm very open minded, I just consider religious to be basically insane and subhuman. Happy to discuss countless topics all day long with rational minds.

So you get to decide who has a rational mind and who doesn’t... and the people you believe do not have rational mind you treat them with rudeness and disdain?

Why not answer you? Because it is pointless to argue with a 'believer' even more so about imaginary crap. Your aim is to enter into an exchange that you'll find reaffirming of your faith and enlightening while I'd find it batsh^t crazy. Best to ignore me and get back to basking in your Jesus faced euphoria. I'm not dodging you, making fun of lunacy is probably a more realistic assessment

Why do you have to be so confrontational??? No one has attacked you yet in one paragraph you have accused billions of peoples religious beliefs as “crap” admitted that you find it to be “batsh^t crazy” tried to insult us with “basking in Jesus faced euphoria” and then claimed you are “making fun of lunacy”

Even you avatar is a deliberate attempt to shock!! All your posts on this topic are laced with sarcasm and venom, bordering on hate...

Do you really think that this is a grown up intelligent way to conduct yourself??

This was an interesting thread with different opinions until you dragged it down to a school playground level. If you have no way of communicating to people while showing a little respect and restraint, no matter how strong your personal views, then you really should just walk away from this thread.

I know you will probably reply to this with more sarcastic snipes designed to provoke an emotion response but I shall just ignore you... and yes, as infuriating as you may find it, forgive you to

However, if you reply in a manner suitable for grown up discussion, and it remains on topic, I shall be happy to discuss with you.

Peace and love my troubled friend

reply to post by moocowman

If he was real in any way, the scriptures themselves make it clear that he was no more or less a son of the "father" than you or I.

The fool has said their is no God, then comes death, then judgement.

reply to post by LiquidLight


The key to understanding religious texts is the awareness of coded language. I'm not talking about a crossword type connect the letters code. I'm talking about words and phrases meaning something other than their surface level literal meanings.

I recommend Helena Blavatsky's books.

Remember when you were just a little kid and you didn't know half the things you know now? Well, without further study you won't even realize you have another 200% to go.

Originally posted by Agree2Disagree

Originally posted by LiquidLight
Let's say for a minute that he did heal the sick, walk on water, and come back from the dead. In today's world, someone like that would most likely be called a demon.

Well, I personally don't think a demon would heal the sick, walk on water, resurrect, and among other things, say "love thy neighbor". "A good tree bears good fruit."

On another note, I'd rather say Son of Man than Son of God. I'm pretty fascinated with The Book of Enoch and why it was rejected but I think it points to Jesus as more of an angel selected by God to come to earth rather than the actual Son of God. We're all sons of God, IMO.

H. P. Blavatsky, The Secret Doctrine, Volume 2, page 529.... Khanoch, or Hanoch, or Enoch means the ''Initiator'' and ''teacher,'' as well as the ''Son of Man,'' Enos (vide Genesis iv., 26), esoterically.

reply to post by Muckster

Peace and love my troubled friend

Oh he's always like that. He's not as bad as sirnex either. I've slammed dunked both of them several times and they always come back for more. Don't let them get you riled. There is a lot of truth to what you said about getting away with trolling. I refuse to hit that alert button though.


I think he is really very frightened.

[edit on 24-11-2009 by randyvs]

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by moocowman

 

If he was real in any way, the scriptures themselves make it clear that he was no more or less a son of the "father" than you or I.

The fool has said their is no God, then comes death, then judgement.

Who exactly is saying there is no god ?

reply to post by JohnPhoenix

There are historical documents, not the bible, from historians of the time period that recorded that many of Jesus miracles really did happen.

Would you be kind enough to show us these historical documents that record jesus' miracles.

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by LiquidLight

 

I think when he said he was the son of God he was talking about everyone being children of God, then after he died everyone added supernatural embellishments to make him seem more like the Savior so everyone would convert. He was just an ordinary man who happened to be very very wise. Remember how he taught them to pray "Our Father" again reinforcing that we are all son's and daughters of God --- my interpretation is that Jesus wanted you to save yourself and stop waiting around for a Messiah that would never show up. But that idea goes over everyone's head because of the whole Solar Deity Resurrection thing.

The whole reason for wanting to be like Christ is so you can become your own Savior, that's what Communion is about too, it's sending the message that "the Savior is within". I think its been woefully misinterpreted. Stop waiting around for magical sky beings and help yourselves...

[edit on 24-11-2009 by Titen-Sxull]

Good point on the ''Our'' Father thing. The messages are deeply encoded.

Like Pookey Blow said in 1981, ''Get Up (And Go To School)''.

reply to post by Muckster

I speak my mind regarding the religious, sorry you disagree.. I guess I should be banned? Myself and others have had a guts full of it.. The evangelicals + Bush have destroyed the USA and wreaked global havoc.. your people are now calling for civil disobedience towards laws that go against your religious doctrine, you hypocrites condemn gays one second and the next claim to 'love and live with the heart never taking only giving' Don't even get me started on the Vatican, pedophilia, 50million dollar megachurches, god hates f*gs, palin Pentecostals. Am I painting with a broad brush? Damn straight I am because it all leads back to 1 thing -The Lord. Your people have even destroyed this forum for the most part. I'll leave it at that an no I don't and will not forgive any of you, although psychologically I can understand you are sick so you do get some points for that.

reply to post by LiquidLight


he didnt call himself the son of god, a misconception of of religion, whether he realised that he was and believed it is another matter

reply to post by Razimus

even Judas, who hung himself because he was ashame

The scriptures also contradict this in saying
Acts 1
"With the reward he got for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled "

So you see these scriptures are totally unreliable, they contradict each other time and again.

This business of Judas being eviscerated is somewhat reminiscent of an attack by a zealot.

Could it be that Peter gutted Judas in order to shut him up ?
All things are possible it would seem given the conflicting information available.

It would appear that there is no one scenario more or less likely when it comes to the gospels this is why xtianity appears to be such a make it up as you go along religion, all interpretations are equally valid due to a lack of evidence.

reply to post by reasonable


You obviously have it in for Christianity.

Is there any religion you like? Islam? Hinduism? Judaism? You don't make fun of them in your post.

Originally posted by Cabaret Voltaire
reply to post by reasonable

 

You obviously have it in for Christianity.

Is there any religion you like? Islam? Hinduism? Judaism? You don't make fun of them in your post.

I like Pastafarians and Jedi, they are pretty cool. The others can take a hike though.