Anti-government Militias Resurfacing

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Proto
"I am a thinking man, I love strategy and intrique, manuevering, positioning, I don't enjoy being trapped in herds or in crowds, I would never join a militia, but that is not to say I would not take an active but independent role in a struggle between a corrupt and criminal Washington and the people of this great nation who have been too long abused and opressed by them."


Donny
That is all cool. So let's you and I jump on top of a van near a news agency with signs and leave the Militias stay home and protect momma and the kids.


If you and the prof want to drag a guillotine through the streets of DC be my guest.
You can practice on my county commissioners.

Actually Donny I would be more inclined just to stop by the Clubs and have lunch with the boys and explain to them in my own lovable way things are out of hand. But that's just me, I favor the direct highly communicative approach.

As far as using a guillotine that's insane do you know how hard it is to get blood stains off of things?

Violence is not only not the answer but its a sure fired way to ruin a perfectly good shirt!

Relax Donny, don't worry no one here is talking about conducting a revolution, not even in c flat or b minor!

We are talking about the dire need for all constitutional rights by the citizens to be exercised including a large standing militia of citizens that could stand really well! They would be expert standers, capable of standing just about any place, like the steps of the Capitol, the lawn of the White House, the sidewalk around the Federal Reserve, please don't tell me standing in the nation's capitol is now a crime too?

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


Martin Luther King had a dream.
Case closed with you.

It's the wierdest thing - suddenly I hear an imense field of crickets - strange

Mods please delete

Originally posted by WWJFKD

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
IMO a militias purpose is defense not only of a rouge government but the attack upon American soil from any other army of group, Terrorists as well.
They are not intended to be offensive or anti government.

This sentence is hanging me up here. So militias are in defense "against" rogue govenments but are not intended to be anti government. You dont believe they should should be anti-government of a rogue government? Care to elaborate?

Key word Defense son.
Anti when physically attacked as in Concord Mass.
Or Harpers Ferry. The citizen VOTER is responsible for change.

[edit on 24-11-2009 by Donny 4 million]

Originally posted by WWJFKD
It's the wierdest thing - suddenly I hear an imense field of crickets - strange

Mods please delete

Normandy landing, inland as the various troops clicked their devices to rendezvous with one another and establish contact.

The thing I most detest about all these shanennigans going on in Washington is this horrible atmosphere of fear that permeates everything today.

Fear of terrorists, fear for the economy, fear of the government its just pitiful that so many people have been induced into living in so much fear.

Our government and the media very much have done this on purpose.

Frightened people, angry people think with their emotions and not their brains, they abandon logic and common sense to indulge the drama of their emotions.

This is a horrible way to govern people based on fear and deprivation, and fear of deprivation. We are so prosperous and so numerous and have the capability and potential of being so productive as a nation and so secure in that and as a nation it is absolutely criminal that we are being governed in this fashion, and that so much of our wealth, and infrastructure has been compromised and sold off and exported wholesale.

We have never in the past been such a defeated people, we have won truly monumental struggles, made stellar and vast achievements and advancements in science and technology, productivity and efficiency.

There is not one valid reason for we as a nation to be in not just such a pitiful and diminished state but such a fearful and pitiful and diminished state.

This is no way to live, and news articles like the one this post is about are all about planting the seeds of more fear, fear of the very things that most protect us and keep us secure, so we will instead be afraid and insecure.

Talk about some bad mojo!

Originally posted by Donny 4 million

Originally posted by WWJFKD

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
IMO a militias purpose is defense not only of a rouge government but the attack upon American soil from any other army of group, Terrorists as well.
They are not intended to be offensive or anti government.

This sentence is hanging me up here. So militias are in defense "against" rogue govenments but are not intended to be anti government. You dont believe they should should be anti-government of a rogue government? Care to elaborate?

Key word Defense son.
Anti when physically attacked as in Concord Mass.
Or Harpers Ferry. The citizen VOTER is responsible for change.

[edit on 24-11-2009 by Donny 4 million]

Do you think the girl at 3:40 in this video needed to be "defended" against the actions of her rogue Government? Would you consider what happened to her an attack? She didn't seem particularily dangerous did she?

www.youtube.com...

[edit on 24-11-2009 by WWJFKD]

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Originally posted by WWJFKD
It's the wierdest thing - suddenly I hear an imense field of crickets - strange

Mods please delete

Normandy landing, inland as the various troops clicked their devices to rendezvous with one another and establish contact.

The thing I most detest about all these shanennigans going on in Washington is this horrible atmosphere of fear that permeates everything today.

Fear of terrorists, fear for the economy, fear of the government its just pitiful that so many people have been induced into living in so much fear.

Our government and the media very much have done this on purpose.

Frightened people, angry people think with their emotions and not their brains, they abandon logic and common sense to indulge the drama of their emotions.

This is a horrible way to govern people based on fear and deprivation, and fear of deprivation. We are so prosperous and so numerous and have the capability and potential of being so productive as a nation and so secure in that and as a nation it is absolutely criminal that we are being governed in this fashion, and that so much of our wealth, and infrastructure has been compromised and sold off and exported wholesale.

We have never in the past been such a defeated people, we have won truly monumental struggles, made stellar and vast achievements and advancements in science and technology, productivity and efficiency.

There is not one valid reason for we as a nation to be in not just such a pitiful and diminished state but such a fearful and pitiful and diminished state.

This is no way to live, and news articles like the one this post is about are all about planting the seeds of more fear, fear of the very things that most protect us and keep us secure, so we will instead be afraid and insecure.

Talk about some bad mojo!

I think the mods should take all this crap out.
Proto you haven't even addressed the topic here. MILITIAS.
You are using this forum as a lecturn clutched by th German leader in1939.
ask the boys at the club if I am more right or wrong.

"If we fail to learn from the mistakes of our past, We are doomed to repeat them."

Well I hate to be the bearer of bad news but this is definitely pertinent to militias.

www.infowars.com...

"After explaining and defending his decision to give enemy combatants constitutional protections and the right to public trial in civilian courts, Attorney General Holder revealed his support for a national gun owner registration scheme and authorizing the government to ban firearm possession for any person by merely adding that person’s name to the terror watch list."

www.abovetopsecret.com...

It appears that the straw is in fact being dropped on the camels back, God help us all.

[edit on 24-11-2009 by WWJFKD]

reply to post by Donny 4 million


Actually Donny I sure have addressed the topic on Militias I started the thread.

It's important that the American people who are often purposefully under educated to a functional illiterate level understand this history and need of militias and their significance as seen by the founding fathers Donny rather than simply take the word of the Southern Poverty Law Center that makes a big business out of exploiting misrepresentations for financial profit and control.

Once again the corporate media spin maestros are misrepresenting things to shape opinion and perception through editorial to arrive at anti-Constitutional perspectives.

You see Donny what you don't really get is that the Constitution is the Government not the politicians sitting in Washington.

the only way you can be anti-Government is being anti-Constitution, because only the Constitution is legal and lawful government.

So when politicans in Washington and the medias assail the principles of the constitution and misrepresent the people who show discipline in their adherence to it, and those politicians and media moguls do that with the aim of infringing upon the Constitution which is the government they are actually the entities that are acting anti-Government because anything in violation of the constitution or aimed to get around it or dillute it is anti-Government.

Protecting the Constitution is pro-Government. You actually have government confused with parties and personalities and people.

Government is actually the Constitution, it is what establishes and defines what government is.

So politicians in Washington which are just people and media barrons who are just people and the Southern Poverty Law Center which are just people and NOT THE CONSTITUTION choose to violate it's principals that, that Donny IS THE ANTI-GOVERNMENT ACT.

You don't seem to understand what the Constitution is and that government derives it's power from it. Anything anti-Constitutional is anti-Government.

Militias and citizens are charged with protecting the constitution, protecting it Donny and they have that responsibility. Politicians are charged with upholding Donny they have that responsibility to uphold it.

If and when they don't, and they act in an Anti-Constitutional Way which is Anti-Government because the Constitution is the Government then it is certainly the Militias and the citizens responsibility to protect the constitution and make sure it is upheld by eliminating those anti-Constitutional forces, whether they be in government or outside of government.

That should always be done in the most expedient and surest of ways when the anti-Constitutional forces have siezed the power to govern through it but aren't upholding it.

Citizenship and it's responsibilities and complexities isn't for everyone Donny. They don't appreciate it's responsibilities so they can't really appreciate what it is or get what they are meant to per the constitution out of it.

There is no need to defend criminal politicians acting in anti-Constitutional Ways.

Here in the United States the Constitution is the Government, the people who we make swear to uphold it are just servants of the Government and the people.

They have you and much of American tragically confused about who they really are in the role they play, as well as the role they are not supposed to play.

That's the real danger Donny, not people who are just doing their responsibility as citizens and protecting the constitution. How on earth could an American be so decieved as to imagine for a second of the day that defending and insisting the Constitution which is the government be upheld is a bad or dangerous thing?

That's clearly strange thinking.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Originally posted by Janky Red

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler


profoundly worried about the infringements of their constitutional rights based on War on Terror initiatives like the Patriot Acts and the Foreign Intelligence Services Act (FISA) just to name a few.

Well these enlightened chaps should have addressed it while it was happening.
I suspect many members voted for the man and the party who created these programs
in the name of freedoms.

Would this formation be happening if Dick had been elected?

Would they have voted for dick???

This create a very foul stench of motive

It never ceases to amaze me how people are so incredibly eager to just stick with horrible things because it wasn't rectified on someone elses watch?

Its about as pathetic and desperate a mode of deflection, irresponsibility and self defeatest thinking that anyone could ever come up with.

It's basically people advocating ....to bad live with it for ever because I love the current leader who VOTED FOR THE PATRIOT ACT HIMSELF AS A SENATOR.

it's basically people advocating...to bad live with it for ever because I love the current leader who VOTED FOR THE FISA ACT HIMSELF AS A SENATOR.

It's basically people advocating...to bad live with it and suffer ir for ever because I love the current leader WHO VOTED FOR ONE BAILOUT AS A SENATOR AND ANOTHER AS PRESIDENT.

It's basically people advocating...to bad live with it and suffer it for ever because I love the current leader WHO JUST DECIDED TO SEND 35,000 MORE AMERICANS TO AFGHANISTAN.

How about we take care of the problem now and people can choose whether they want to be part of the problem or part of the solution.

I can't believe so many people are more in love with one man than they are with their own nation and quality of life.

The motive behind this mobilization seems to be questionable for me, that is my point.
Frankly I think the knee jerk

WE LOVE AMERICA GO PATRIOT ACT and CRUSH THE TERRORISTS LIKE WORMS FEDS!!!!!!!!!!

to

KILL THE GOVERNMENT

is a big part of the problem

These are two contrary notions that have been sold by the same faction of society.

Hunt down the terrorists!!!!

To

OMFG Obama is "staying the course"

----=----

PROTECT US FEDS, SPREAD FREEDOM

To

The FEDS promote slavery, kill em all

----=----

If one individual changed their stances on such fundamental decisions their sanity or seriousness would be in question.

I believe the nation will be rehabilitated in the eyes of many of these militia men the second a conservative candidate steps in the oval office. I sure didn't see conservatives wanting to overthrow the conservative president, didn't bat a single f-ing eye lash as Bush systematically increase the fed, limited freedom, subverted the CONSTITUTION increased spending...

A revolution will not fix the problem, because it does not address the factor that corrupts government,,, the entities that fund government. Not to mention deciding something is right before it is wrong, the American people.

I marched against the war since OBAMA was elected - have you ever marched to end it? I'll march next time too

BTW - this entire movement is about deflection bud, easy to see. When you guys get your conservative savior in, all will be roses, tow the line like always and advocate a punitive, powerful government because it has the conservative seal of approval.

Do as I say not as I do

the whole lot of you are full of it - from government to militia men



[edit on 25-11-2009 by Janky Red]

[edit on 25-11-2009 by Janky Red]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Ok!---- you may be the Rubber Band Man and the Seventh Son.
So go head and untangle this mess you created for yourself.
Your words --this thread.

"the only way you can be anti-Government is being anti-Constitution, because only the Constitution is legal and lawful government."

How do you stretch that to Anti- Government Malitia?
Oh yeah i know how!
It is called trolling for anti something , anything. You would have to be fuc#ing bonded by the boys that run the club to even be allowed to utter your spiel of INTRIGUE

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by Janky Red

 

Well first off.. A President is the EXECUTIVE BRANCH

Meaning..

LEGISLATIVE branch makes the wars, makes the bills, makes our budget. President just has the final say ... if you think the Republican President twisted the arms of the dominate DEMOCRATIC House then I gotta say, you're a bit more ignorant than I am already assuming ..

Republicans wanted the war. Democrats created it.
Republicans wanted the totalitarian Patriot Act. Democrats passed it.

So either they are working together for a scheme bigger than our own imagination .. or the Democratic party are incredibly naive ignorant imbeciles. I am more inclined to believe they correlated to create the war, as well as the draconian measures taken by the Government in the past 9 years.

You ask "Why now?"

Under Bush, as bad as things seemed to be .. the Unemployment stood at 4.6% .. and people were making bank off their real estate.

Now the whole thing fell off a cliff, the economy is in it's worst depression since the Great Depression and people are loosing their jobs, loosing their homes, being taxed into the ground while loosing the shirt off their back.

On top of that, while we were down for the count reeling from the economic shock, before we could even gather what the hell happened to us .. we got @#% looted by some fat cat corporate bankers, most of which were not even frikin American banks, stealing trillions from us, taxing us through inflation. And did it stop there? No, the Government, regardless of our over whelming presistant NO's gave hundreds of billions more, wasted billions, with no help for us in sight.. taking care of the Oligarchy that is their masters.

I don't know about you mate, you seem like the type with your head so far up your ass, you don't realize what's happened, but it gets folks like me fighting mad. For some, they mean that in a literal sense.

[edit on 11/24/2009 by Rockpuck]

As far as the war damn right, Pussy ass Dems crumbled to the EXCELLENT Rhetoric conservative America was squirting out relentlessly. Hey but you still saw us out there protesting regardless. What I did not see was a lot of conservatives out there protesting the subversion of the constitution, before the damage was done. Or tea parties addressing the spending, the expansion and creation or several quasi omnipotent government agencies. - I HEARD NOTHING, but go along or go live in a new country
Liberal slime.

We got looted by some fat cat bankers, all right, do you think it might have to do with believing the government should let business do what it wants? Deregulation? Looking the other way because it is the objectivist way to deal with business?

LET the producers PRODUCE!!!

and they did

[edit on 25-11-2009 by Janky Red]

[edit on 25-11-2009 by Janky Red]

reply to post by Donny 4 million

The citizen VOTER is responsible for change.

The citizen voter no longer has a voice, our votes count for nothing, it is now nothing more than a facade. We are no longer represented, corporations are represented, foreign interests are represented, but the American people have not been truely represented for many years now. We can hope for change all we want, we can vote to try and change things, but the truth is the time has come to represent ourselves.

In general this thread seems to me to be more a call to arms ( which I find a very dangerous prospect no matter how subtle.)

I haven't seen any call to arms in this thread. However if a call to arms ever does arise, the cause will lie at the feet of an out of control, unjust, tryannical, power hungry government fueled by greed, not at the feet of the American people. It is not only our right, but our duty to alter, or abolish such a government and institute a new one.

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

www.ushistory.org...

Well I wish all of you the best of luck-

you will be deemed a terrorist only to have a third tier justice system dispatch you.

Maybe the next time it comes time to f--- with the justice system you guys will respect it and not assume it is because out of love for terrorists.

The government reflects its people more than you care to admit. Clearly the constitution failed in its parameters

Chinese insanity

reply to post by Janky Red


I cant believe Im getting roped into this, yet I can't stop myself. I'm fuming so I'll try to put something out here with some semblance of coherence.

Why do you pay taxes. Is it because you believe that we should share our wealth with other nations sucking the knee caps out of us or is it that deep down inside youre afraid because you know they'll send a bunch of boys in black and haul your ass in for failure to comply? I can assure you that a great many of us have weighed the consequences against the potential reward and we are quite secure in our decisions.

See I dont have to explain to you all the things the average American believes his taxes pay for, because you know the truth dont you? I could speak till I was blue in the face about all of the coruptions, intrusions, usurpations that have been going on for quite some time, well before this administration and well before the one before that and so on. But I wouldn't be telling you anything you dont know already.

You know after 911 the people were gripped by fear. their 'Heirarchy of Needs" had the knee caps blown out of it and the people had no choice but to turn to the only source that they knew could keep it from happening again provided they didn't help the process along in the first place.

Fear is the mind killer and no one knows this better than any goverment which has used it to gain immediate decisive control over its masses through a catastopic event providing itself as the only sollution to the problem. The answer is always the usurpation of peoples liberties.

But again I'm not telling you anything you dont already know am I?

This knee jerk reaction is coming from what has been a very long leg if thats what you want to call it. I personally could care less what color race religion creed sex what have you is in place when it finally comes to a head. they are either for the protection of the Constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic and the repeal of all usurpations against it or the are not. We have been very patient waiting for this to happen and it is becoming painfully clear that this is no where in the plans.

The Constitution is for all time, not only until we feel like were tired of it. amendments understandable but no one and no body is allowed to alter it to the point of obscurity. The Constitution is how we run things around here, do not assume that you have any right, authority or ability to bend it to your will, to suit your needs.

And if you dont like this kind of devotion to this document, then you contact someone and get them to stop having your soldiers swear their allegiance to its protection. Some of us take that oath with the utmost seriousness and there is very little that tops our devotion to it.

Originally posted by WWJFKD
reply to post by Janky Red

 

I cant believe Im getting roped into this, yet I can't stop myself. I'm fuming so I'll try to put something out here with some semblance of coherence.

Why do you pay taxes. Is it because you believe that we should share our wealth with other nations sucking the knee caps out of us or is it that deep down inside youre afraid because you know they'll send a bunch of boys in black and haul your ass in for failure to comply? I can assure you that a great many of us have weighed the consequences against the potential reward and we are quite secure in our decisions.

See I dont have to explain to you all the things the average American believes his taxes pay for, because you know the truth dont you? I could speak till I was blue in the face about all of the coruptions, intrusions, usurpations that have been going on for quite some time, well before this administration and well before the one before that and so on. But I wouldn't be telling you anything you dont know already.

You know after 911 the people were gripped by fear. their 'Heirarchy of Needs" had the knee caps blown out of it and the people had no choice but to turn to the only source that they knew could keep it from happening again provided they didn't help the process along in the first place.

Fear is the mind killer and no one knows this better than any goverment which has used it to gain immediate decisive control over its masses through a catastopic event providing itself as the only sollution to the problem. The answer is always the usurpation of peoples liberties.

But again I'm not telling you anything you dont already know am I?

This knee jerk reaction is coming from what has been a very long leg if thats what you want to call it. I personally could care less what color race religion creed sex what have you is in place when it finally comes to a head. they are either for the protection of the Constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic and the repeal of all usurpations against it or the are not. We have been very patient waiting for this to happen and it is becoming painfully clear that this is no where in the plans.

The Constitution is for all time, not only until we feel like were tired of it. amendments understandable but no one and no body is allowed to alter it to the point of obscurity. The Constitution is how we run things around here, do not assume that you have any right, authority or ability to bend it to your will, to suit your needs.

And if you dont like this kind of devotion to this document, then you contact someone and get them to stop having your soldiers swear their allegiance to its protection. Some of us take that oath with the utmost seriousness and there is very little that tops our devotion to it.

Don't be mad at me

I am currently double fisting a book by Jefferson and Franklin, I am convince they would not approve by a damn mile sight


But I believe the document has failed, from a practical POV, not out of a dislike for this nation or its founding document. IF it functioned the way it was intended to we would not be here discussing this would we? Seems to me the CORPORATIONS have grown up around us and we are all slaves of perpetual debt in our own country. NOT the intention of the constitution, but hey man, we have arrived anyway you slice it.

I am not fighting along side people who worship the corporate institution, no, I see it as the root of the problem. Many would only exalt it and elevate it because of ideological principle - "business can do no wrong". Trim the tree and leave the roots -

The founding fathers could only see from their ancient perspective, unable to foresee
the developments that render the grand document virtually sterile. We are free to pay taxes and never ending bills- neither indicates freedom. Until every man can live like a human without HAVING to spend money in a compulsory fashion we are not 1776 free.
A the prerequisite to life in this age is the bills that accompany the taxes, not the case in the founding times. So to to mix and match the concepts of all these era's is mis guided, EVERYTHING IS CHANGED, which has deformed the recipe of freedom I suspect. The only freedom free of any compulsion is - "YOU ARE FREE TO GO IN THE STREET AND STARVE".

in 76 you were free to set out, kill your own food and claim some land on your own steam - this mess does not resemble that in ANY fashion. The modern equivalent is transience, trespasser, poacher, lazy no good #@$##@$@#$ - ultimately it would NOT resemble the life of a modern man-

As far as 9/11 - people were being sold the EXACT opposite of what they were told

Now there are cries of socialism

HAVE YOU personally gained ANYTHING? ANY FINANCIAL OR CONTROLLING GAIN? no, because it is not socialism, does not fit the definition of the word-

But the goings on do fit the word CORPORATISM to a T

Once again people happily being sold the exact opposite of what they are buying

I do not see a awakening - this populace outrage movement has even been co-opted and tainted... The cue is forming to grab the coattails as we speak - already yesterdays news- rotten - ZERO introspection or self reflection. Shift out the head of the beast even though these folks think they are spearheading the opposite.






[edit on 25-11-2009 by Janky Red]

[edit on 25-11-2009 by Janky Red]

[edit on 25-11-2009 by Janky Red]

reply to post by Janky Red


Theyre not teaching anyone anything anymore. No one knows what the Constitution says and theyre not going to tell anyone.

Hell, most of the guys I took my oath with have no idea what they took an oath to do. Sure they take the oath but no one was actually required to read the document, and it wasn't encouraged.

I got a nephew in 4th grade talking about the Boston tea party like it was a bad thing and why was Jefferson Davis so mean.

These Corporate violations have taken place not because of loopholes in the Constitution but because no one demands that it be followed because no one knows whats in it.

It is so disheartening to watch a nation largely mesmerized by football and dancing with the stars that has no idea what is happening and doesn't care because they don't even know that there is anything to care about.

Just like I've been told. These things are being done to the people, because its what they want.

Originally posted by WWJFKD
reply to post by Janky Red

 

Theyre not teaching anyone anything anymore. No one knows what the Constitution says and theyre not going to tell anyone.

Hell, most of the guys I took my oath with have no idea what they took an oath to do. Sure they take the oath but no one was actually required to read the document, and it wasn't encouraged.

I got a nephew in 4th grade talking about the Boston tea party like it was a bad thing and why was Jefferson Davis so mean.

These Corporate violations have taken place not because of loopholes in the Constitution but because no one demands that it be followed because no one knows whats in it.

It is so disheartening to watch a nation largely mesmerized by football and dancing with the stars that has no idea what is happening and doesn't care because they don't even know that there is anything to care about.

Just like I've been told. These things are being done to the people, because its what they want.

I expanded on my post, pardon

It may not be apparent but I think ultimately we all want the same thing -

I appreciate your post -

I am to the point where I don't believe in any options or the alternative, thats a pickle.

I wonder IF things get "better", will we all go back to sleep?

A long time ago I knew some people who were somewhat involved with one of these groups. I found them to be quite unrealistic, since they were advocating life as it used to be, when the population in city-centers was fundamentally smaller. I pointed out to these guys that you can't have the same general common law when you have millions of people living in a crowded metropolitan area. For example, these guys were advocating that there not be any laws of the road, and that each man be allowed to drive without a license or training. Well, excuse me, but I don't want to be on the road driving with people who don't have any training and who don't believe they have to follow any rules if they don't want to. And I certainly don't want to wait until they hit somebody or kill somebody before any kind of penalty is exacted upon them.

reply to post by Janky Red

But I believe the document has failed, from a practical POV, not out of a dislike for this nation or its founding document. IF it functioned the way it was intended to we would not be here discussing this would we? Seems to me the CORPORATIONS have grown up around us and we are all slaves of perpetual debt in our own country. NOT the intention of the constitution, but hey man, we have arrived anyway you slice it.

It is NOT the CONSTITUTION that has failed, but the leaders of our country in both parties that have FAILED THE CONSTITUTION. The Constitution is very EXPLICIT in what Congress CAN and CAN'T do, but Congress has IGNORED it, and done whatever it wants anyway, even though entrance into issues such as Health Care are explicitly left to the STATES BY THE CONSTITUTION.

Amendment 10 - Powers of the States and People
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Nowhere in the Constitution does it give the federal government permission to enter into issues such as health care, the auto industry, or other such misadventures that our wrong-minded Congress has entered.