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Anti-government Militias Resurfacing

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posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 08:39 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler


profoundly worried about the infringements of their constitutional rights based on War on Terror initiatives like the Patriot Acts and the Foreign Intelligence Services Act (FISA) just to name a few.



Well these enlightened chaps should have addressed it while it was happening.
I suspect many members voted for the man and the party who created these programs
in the name of freedoms.

Would this formation be happening if Dick had been elected?

Would they have voted for dick???

This create a very foul stench of motive




posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 08:46 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
I noticed that the article basically called the Militia members ignorant red neck racist out to get the black president because, well, he's black and liberal.


Basically they are trying to issolate the Militias, by making them into the bad guys the general society turns against them.. the people believe what ever the news man tells them to believe, they are ignorant.



No, No, No

It is this



more people across the nation are profoundly worried about the infringements of their constitutional rights based on War on Terror initiatives like the Patriot Acts and the Foreign Intelligence Services Act (FISA) just to name a few.



Little late - same people who fought the evil liberals to pass the above - I suspect many of these folks voted for the man and party who created these things - so it stinks, the timing is very off, which makes it appear that this is stupid in its inception. Barely hidden partisanship- that is INDEPENDENT - were these militia "independents" crying fowl about the 1 trillion dollar war? or fisa? Patriot Act? Subversion of due process?

But now they are?



the people believe what ever the news man tells them to believe, they are ignorant.

does this apply to militia members who voted for and supported the FEDERAL ACTION mentioned above?

Cause as I recall, not agreeing with this stuff made you a terrorist lover.

Maybe they were just napping thru it all so they could fight it half a decade later.



[edit on 24-11-2009 by Janky Red]



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 08:57 PM
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Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 





These attitudes and strategies will just harden militia members resolve and continue to underscore the real and present danger in today's society and government, because when you are right you are right, and you don't need a talking head to echo what you already know in your own.

Everything our government and mainstream media does speaks of desperation and manipulation and sooner or later they will hang themselves in that process if given enough rope, and they sure seem intent on stealing all the hemp they can lay their hands on!

The militias will continue to gain committed members and strength and thanks to the mainstream media won't be burdened with the nay sayers and wishy washy types.

Our government has reached the point a good bit ago where it is too clever for it's own good!



Well put, my friend!
Americans should remember how a rag-tag group of men under George Washington managed to defeat the mighty forces of the British Empire, at a time when Britain "ruled" the world.

Francis Marion, the swamp fox, and his men are heralded within militia organizations today, and his tactics have been shown to defeat even the greatest armies. One need only look at the Viet Nam war to see that. The "army" that the militia may indeed end up fighting will not be our Brave soldiers, but rather a weak group of fat, corrupt politicians whose day will eventually come.



First of all I am all for Militias.
But I do have a problem with the ANTI government aspect of this thread.
In general this thread seems to me to be more a call to arms ( which I find a very dangerous prospect no matter how subtle.)
IMO a militias purpose is defense not only of a rouge government but the attack upon American soil from any other army of group, Terrorists as well.
They are not intended to be offensive or anti government.
Militias marching on the capital is a bad idea. Tea parties ok. Don't march as a militia. Go protest with your family and friends. You will have greater numbers and it will not tarnish the intent of militias.
The good shots need to stay home and protect. period. If you are protesting on the mall who will be entering your homes while you are away? Any comparison to Viet Nam is silly. I was there.
Americans need to learn how Mc Carthy kept Communism at bay in the 50's that's all.
The Woman's Equal Rights Movement and the Civil Rights Movement show without a doubt --change can be acquired without armed revolt. PROTEST and BOYCOTT if they come for our guns-- God bless us all.



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 08:59 PM
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Originally posted by Janky Red

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler


profoundly worried about the infringements of their constitutional rights based on War on Terror initiatives like the Patriot Acts and the Foreign Intelligence Services Act (FISA) just to name a few.



Well these enlightened chaps should have addressed it while it was happening.
I suspect many members voted for the man and the party who created these programs
in the name of freedoms.

Would this formation be happening if Dick had been elected?

Would they have voted for dick???

This create a very foul stench of motive


It never ceases to amaze me how people are so incredibly eager to just stick with horrible things because it wasn't rectified on someone elses watch?

Its about as pathetic and desperate a mode of deflection, irresponsibility and self defeatest thinking that anyone could ever come up with.

It's basically people advocating ....to bad live with it for ever because I love the current leader who VOTED FOR THE PATRIOT ACT HIMSELF AS A SENATOR.

it's basically people advocating...to bad live with it for ever because I love the current leader who VOTED FOR THE FISA ACT HIMSELF AS A SENATOR.

It's basically people advocating...to bad live with it and suffer ir for ever because I love the current leader WHO VOTED FOR ONE BAILOUT AS A SENATOR AND ANOTHER AS PRESIDENT.

It's basically people advocating...to bad live with it and suffer it for ever because I love the current leader WHO JUST DECIDED TO SEND 35,000 MORE AMERICANS TO AFGHANISTAN.

How about we take care of the problem now and people can choose whether they want to be part of the problem or part of the solution.

I can't believe so many people are more in love with one man than they are with their own nation and quality of life.



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 09:09 PM
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reply to post by ProfEmeritus
 


I didn't see in the thread where you said you were enlisted in a militia?
Proto up front says he is not.
I'd like to know if either one of you two have served in battle?



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 09:15 PM
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reply to post by Donny 4 million
 





But I do have a problem with the ANTI government aspect of this thread. In general this thread seems to me to be more a call to arms ( which I find a very dangerous prospect no matter how subtle.) IMO a militias purpose is defense not only of a rouge government but the attack upon American soil from any other army of group, Terrorists as well. They are not intended to be offensive or anti government. Militias marching on the capital is a bad idea. Tea parties ok. Don't march as a militia. Go protest with your family and friends. You will have greater numbers and it will not tarnish the intent of militias. The good shots need to stay home and protect. period. If you are protesting on the mall who will be entering your homes while you are away? Any comparison to Viet Nam is silly. I was there.

You have a lot to learn about militias today. Let me give you a 90 second education:




posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 09:20 PM
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reply to post by Donny 4 million
 


Donny I will let you in on a secret, I have never liked the U.S. Government during the course of my entire lifetime.

Why? Because there is no U.S. Government, there are a bunch of preselected politicians put to the people for vote in a highly controlled tightly rigged electoral process that the citizens get to participate in who once they get to Washington put on an endless dog and pony show while growing the government like a parasite on the host body sucking more and more out of the host body with each and every passing decade.

The military industrialists, oil companies and banks run this nation. The government is an illusion for us to let us pretend that we the people run the nation.

Look around at the state of affairs in this nation and the world, and look at who most profits from the wars and every crisis and problem that infects and aflicts human kind.

The military industrial complex has made trillions of taxpayer dollars off of the war on terror which in reality was about the alleged criminal actions of 19 people who have never been tried or convicted let alone indicted for their alleged crimes that have resulted in deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent people as a result and trillions of dollars in profits to the military industrial complex.

Despite the fact that the taxpayers of this nation have paid for decades now and still pay for U.S. Army boots to stand on top of almost every oil well in the Middle East the cost of gasoline has never been higher and the profits for the oil companies have never been bigger.

A world wide financial crisis has led to the highest levels of unemployment and business closures in three decades and who profits no matter what they do? The bankers who when their own greed and largesse lead them afoul it's not out of business or straight to jail it's government handouts and they still take home million dollar paychecks.

Government? Government? WHAT GOVERNMENT?

Seriously do people still want to live like this? Do the people who really don't want to live like this and recognize THAT THERE IS A HUGE PROBLEM deserve to be labelled as lunatics and fringe ellements by a Government that besides nickel and dime enslaving handouts to the poorest and laziest and sickest does not do one thing for the people of this nation except relieve them of over 50% of their wages to give to the military industrial complex, the oil companies and the bankers?

Anti-government? We would first have to get a legitimate government for someone to be anti-Government.

This is not good government Donnie these clowns are actually talking about putting people in jail for not buying their health insurance.

You really want to pay a premium just to be permitted the luxury of breathing the planet's air and maybe getting sick from it?

The government is broken and it's going to stay broken until the people take responsibility for it, because the reality is if its meant to be a government for the people by the people who the heck is supposed to take responsibility for it when it's broken? The tooth fairy?

The government will never be responsible to the citizens until the citizens remember it's their responsibility to demand that government be responsible to them.

It's that simple, and the reality is that people who fear and by extension shirk that responsibility for our government are part of the problem.

The government is happy by the way, thanks to you and me their paychecks are all going to clear, thanks to you and me they all have jobs, their pay isn't attached to performance the only incentive they have to perform is the people holding them to account for their performance.

One person after another wants someone else to be responsible and one person after another thinks its wrong for the people to be responsible for a government for the people by the people.

I am not advocating a violent over throw of the government.

I am advocating that the people safeguard their constitutional right to maintain militias to defend themselves against a corrupt or tyranical government.

That's every citizen's responsibility at least those ones who understand that everyone is responsible for government in the United States of America and the democratic process.

Washington needs a wake up call and the best way to do that is to prove to Washington that the citizens are awake them selves, concerned and vigillant and nearing their threshhold of tollerance for a government gone mad with its own power and abuses of it.

What you call anti-government many people including our forefathers would call BEING A GOOD AMERICAN.

[edit on 24/11/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 09:22 PM
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reply to post by Donny 4 million
 





I'd like to know if either one of you two have served in battle?

I'd like to know your real name, your age, your home address and who you really are, but since it is against the T & C of ATS, I won't ask, and neither should you.



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 09:33 PM
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i have done a ton of reserch and might just not know where to look but i cant find any militia in utah i can get ahold of. as stated before i dont apreciate racism and want nothing to do with a racist or quick to violence militia. im a strong libertarian and im just looking for a group of people interested in bringing our country back to the constitution as peacefully as possilbe



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 09:43 PM
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Originally posted by Donny 4 million
IMO a militias purpose is defense not only of a rouge government but the attack upon American soil from any other army of group, Terrorists as well.
They are not intended to be offensive or anti government.


This sentence is hanging me up here. So militias are in defense "against" rogue govenments but are not intended to be anti government. You dont believe they should should be anti-government of a rogue government? Care to elaborate?



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 09:53 PM
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Originally posted by Donny 4 million
reply to post by ProfEmeritus
 


I didn't see in the thread where you said you were enlisted in a militia?
Proto up front says he is not.
I'd like to know if either one of you two have served in battle?


Donny I am not a violent person but I have on a half a dozen occassions disarmed gunmen who did seem a bit on the violent side.

In part it's why I would never own a gun or need to own a gun, I can just take someone else's who imagines it might be useful against little old me.

I am a thinking man, I love strategy and intrique, manuevering, positioning, I don't enjoy being trapped in herds or in crowds, I would never join a militia, but that is not to say I would not take an active but independent role in a struggle between a corrupt and criminal Washington and the people of this great nation who have been too long abused and opressed by them.

Donny eventually we have to confront the truth as unpleasant as it is.

Our government is out of control and a criminal enterprise intent on racketeering for it's own enrichment and the corporations it serves.

Me saying that does not make me the criminal, they are after all the ones committing these crimes not me.

What the government has done through a series of strategic maneuvers is to set the stage where people who do criticize the criminal government are viewed as criminals themselves.

Should they succeed in that endeavor and they are very close to succeeding in that endeavor then that would be the end of democracy and freedom as we know it.

I could not in good faith allow that to happen by me not speaking out against it and if need by taking action against the crimes being committed by the government.

The U.S. Congress and the White House really have colluded with a small group of powerful Wall Street Interests to rob the American people of 11 trillion dollars in the citizens savings Donny.

That's a pretty serious crime and it really has occured and the only reason no one at Wall Street is going to jail is because the Congress and the President are protecting them.

Once again that's on them not on me, and I would sooner go to jail myself than pretend the truth is not the truth and those responsible for inflicting so much missery and suffering and loss on so many people are not responsible when it is more than obvious they are.

Some people weren't meant to rock the boat. Some people have never once thought in their entire life why they are sitting down when they are told to sit down.

They just do it. I have never once done one thing told without thinking first if it would be a wise idea to do it, and never once have I accepted or tolerated anything that I did not think was a wise idea to do it, just because peer groups or authority told me I should do it. That I must do it.

I must actually only do one thing, and that's stay alive and be true to myself.

I am real serious about that Donny.

Now the rest of American is free to nap, take a permanent vacation, heck even get a tattoo if they want to not deal with just how to correct the largest most violent, most corrupt military industrial and security industrial and prison industrial complex in the world.

Naturally this is not a job everyone feels equal to or up for or even hopeful about but I enjoy speaking truth to power.

That's what I do and I will still enjoy speaking truth to power even if they make it a crime.

In the meantime people are not well served by acting like its a crime to speak truth to power for that Donny is the very surest way it will become a crime to speak truth to power.

I wouldn't hurt a soul Donny through violence because the reality is I would only be hurting myself by doing that.

I though can help people by speaking truth to power, because the truth will set you free.

As more people confront the truth it becomes harder for people to lie and get away with lies.

The Government is not some magical mystical mythical thing like G-d, it does not deserve the reverence and obedience it craves for itself, it serves us, we do not serve it.

The people have been so intimidated, so brainwashed, so indoctrinated into fearing the government and giving it some lofty role beyond any and all reproach that it is almost comical to see how the people victimized by that and it, will so fearfully and fiercely and sometimes wholly ingnorantly defend the most deplorable actions of government as somehow being sacrosanct.

That though defeats the purpose of democracy and most specifically the American Democracy because it was never designed to function like that or hold that position.

It was designed so humble peaceful people like myself could always speak truth to power to it and do so without fear, without scorn, but instead with appreciation that I as a citizen am doing my part in a democracy by truthfully letting my voice be heard.

I will not lie about them or to them for I will not lie to myself about them or to them.

The truth shall set us free Donny, and the truth is what we must confront, no matter how painful and disturbing, no matter what the consequences might be.

My whole life has been a battle Donny, a battle to speak the truth in a world where people would much prefer to hear pleasant lies!

[edit on 24/11/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 09:55 PM
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reply to post by ProfEmeritus
 


Ok lets put it this way. Nothing personal at all here.
Have you ever played a modern role of the swampfox that you admire?
Would you condone dodging the dratf if it were reinstated?
Any comment about my comment about a call to arms?
Do you get your feel for militia from books?
The video was Waco a sad day in American history.
How would militia have helped?

[edit on 24-11-2009 by Donny 4 million]



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 10:07 PM
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reply to post by Janky Red
 


Well first off.. A President is the EXECUTIVE BRANCH

Meaning..

LEGISLATIVE branch makes the wars, makes the bills, makes our budget. President just has the final say ... if you think the Republican President twisted the arms of the dominate DEMOCRATIC House then I gotta say, you're a bit more ignorant than I am already assuming ..

Republicans wanted the war. Democrats created it.
Republicans wanted the totalitarian Patriot Act. Democrats passed it.

So either they are working together for a scheme bigger than our own imagination .. or the Democratic party are incredibly naive ignorant imbeciles. I am more inclined to believe they correlated to create the war, as well as the draconian measures taken by the Government in the past 9 years.

You ask "Why now?"

Under Bush, as bad as things seemed to be .. the Unemployment stood at 4.6% .. and people were making bank off their real estate.

Now the whole thing fell off a cliff, the economy is in it's worst depression since the Great Depression and people are loosing their jobs, loosing their homes, being taxed into the ground while loosing the shirt off their back.

On top of that, while we were down for the count reeling from the economic shock, before we could even gather what the hell happened to us .. we got @#% looted by some fat cat corporate bankers, most of which were not even frikin American banks, stealing trillions from us, taxing us through inflation. And did it stop there? No, the Government, regardless of our over whelming presistant NO's gave hundreds of billions more, wasted billions, with no help for us in sight.. taking care of the Oligarchy that is their masters.

[SNIP]

[edit on 11/24/2009 by Rockpuck]

MOD EDIT: Edited out Off-Topic comment.

[edit on 28-11-2009 by TheBorg]



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 10:12 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


Wow Rockpuck that truly was some G-d like wisdom.

Well said indeed. It is truly amazing that so many people are so selective in what they are seeing wrong with the picture.

This really is not the government that the textbooks, and travel brochures promote or the government the founders wanted.

It is what it is.



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 10:13 PM
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reply to post by Donny 4 million
 


Donny? are you satisfied with the services you are recieving from your Government. They have a mandate of certain things they are supposed to provide - for instance

Provide for the common defense

Secure the common Border

Coin its own currency free of charge

Do you feel that your Government is discharging the aforementioned duties?

Maybe you do, Some of us do not and the concerns of those are not being addressed in any form or fashion. When you take away the Peoples right of redress all you leave these individuals is revolution sometimes violent.

Many see a Government who engages in wars against its neighbors completely circumventing the Constitution that says explicitly it is not to get involved in foreign entanglements.

Many see a Government that is openly atempting to offer blanket amnesty to those who illegally cross our borders

Many see a Government who discharges its duty to coin currency by turning over that duty to a private corporation which then charges interest on the money which the Constitution demanded be provided free of charge.

Like it or not we are a Constitutional Republic and it is additionally the duty of this Government to address the concerns of all of its constituents.

Look at it like this. You are an employer, youre employee does not listen to you, does nothing you ask of it, ignores you flatly and refuses to follow your companys standard operating procedures. Now what do you do with an employee like that?



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 10:22 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Proto
"I am a thinking man, I love strategy and intrique, manuevering, positioning, I don't enjoy being trapped in herds or in crowds, I would never join a militia, but that is not to say I would not take an active but independent role in a struggle between a corrupt and criminal Washington and the people of this great nation who have been too long abused and opressed by them."


Donny
That is all cool. So let's you and I jump on top of a van near a news agency with signs and leave the Militias stay home and protect momma and the kids.


If you and the prof want to drag a guillotine through the streets of DC be my guest.
You can practice on my county commissioners.



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 10:33 PM
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reply to post by WWJFKD
 


I could be in total agreement with you here.
BUT it is not the job of the Militia to change the government.
PERIOD
There are other ways. What you guys propose will only help put an end to an American right and all but forgotten tradition.
Militias need no PRESS especially bad press. ANTI GOV is bad press.



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 10:44 PM
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Originally posted by Donny 4 million
reply to post by WWJFKD
 


I could be in total agreement with you here.
BUT it is not the job of the Militia to change the government.
PERIOD
There are other ways. What you guys propose will only help put an end to an American right and all but forgotten tradition.
Militias need no PRESS especially bad press. ANTI GOV is bad press.


Thats a little to open ended and convenient for me. gonna call you out on this one.

Whose job is it to abolish a rogue Government?

"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -- (Thomas Jefferson)

"The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them. And yet, though this truth would seem so clear, and the importance of a well regulated militia would seem so undeniable, it cannot be disguised, that among the American people there is a growing indifference to any system of militia discipline, and a strong disposition, from a sense of its burthens, to be rid of all regulations. How it is practicable to keep the people duly armed without some organization, it is difficult to see. There is certainly no small danger, that indifference may lead to disgust, and disgust to contempt; and thus gradually undermine all the protection intended by this clause of our national bill of rights." (Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States; With a Preliminary Review of the Constitutional History of the Colonies and States before the Adoption of the Constitution [Boston, 1833])

". . . Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends*, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, . . .Declaration of Independence"

[edit on 24-11-2009 by WWJFKD]



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 10:48 PM
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reply to post by Donny 4 million
 

Read this poem, Donny, and you will understand WHY the militia exist:



A VISITOR FROM THE PAST.

A POEM By; Thelan Paulk 1980?

I had a dream the other night, I didn't understand.
A figure walking through the mist, with flintlock in his hand.
His clothes were torn and dirty, as he stood there by the bed.
He took off his three cornered hat, speaking low he said:

"We fought a revolution, to secure our liberty.
We wrote the constitution as a shield from tyranny.
For future generations, this legacy we gave.
In this, the land of the free and the home of the brave."

"The freedom we secured for you we hoped you would always keep.
But tyrants labored endlessly while your parents were asleep.
Your freedom gone, your courage lost, you're no more than a slave.
In this, the land of the free and the home of the brave."

"You buy permits to travel, and permits to own a gun,
permits to start a business, or to build a place for one.
On a land that you believe you own you pay a yearly rent.
While you have no voice in choosing how the money is spent."


"Your children must attend a school that doesn't educate.
Your Christian values can't be taught according to the state.
You read about the current news, in a regulated press.
You pay a tax you do not owe to please the IRS."


"Your money is no longer made of silver or of gold.
You traded in your wealth for paper so your life can be controlled.
You pay for crimes that make our Nation turn from God in shame.
You've taken Satans number as you've traded in your name."

"You've given government control to those who do you harm,
so they can padlock churches and steal the family farm,
and keep our country deep in debt, put men of God in jail,
harass your fellow countrymen, while corrupted courts prevail."

"your public servants don't uphold the solemn oath they've sworn.
Your daughters visit doctors so their children won't be born.
Your leaders ship artillery and guns to foreign shores,
and send your sons to slaughter fighting other peoples wars."

"Can you regain the freedom for which we fought and died?
Or don't you have the courage to stand with faith and pride?
Are there no more values for which you'll fight to save?
Or do you wish your children live in fear and be a slave?"

"Sons of the republic, arise and take a stand!
Defend the Constitution, the Supreme Law of the Land!
Preserve our Great Republic and each God Given Right!
and pray to God, to keep the torch of freedom burning bright!"

As I awoke he vanished, in the mist from which he came.
His words were true, we are not free, we have ourselves to blame.
For even now as tyrants trample each God Given Right.
We only watch and tremble, too afraid to stand and fight."

If he stood by your bedside in a dream, while you were asleep.
and wonders what remains of our Rights he fought to keep.
What we be your answer if he called out from the grave?


algoxy.com...



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 10:53 PM
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reply to post by Donny 4 million
 





If you and the prof want to drag a guillotine through the streets of DC be my guest. You can practice on my county commissioners.

I would appreciate it if you would stop attributing things to us that were never said nor intended. It is dishonest and childish.
Again, you just can't seem to refrain from asking for personal information, so let me quote the paragraph below every post that you enter:


Please do not post your own personal information. You should be aware that any personally identifiable information you submit here can be read, collected, or used by other users of these forums, and could be used to send you unsolicited messages. We are not responsible for the personally identifiable information you choose to submit, and may remove it at our discretion.


Given your propensity for dishonesty in what you attribute to posts, anyone would be insane to give you any personal information.



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