Let's declare WAR! Economic War on China

Originally posted by HotSauce
reply to post by badgerprints

 

So you are saying you would rather go down without a fight. I see your point about the governmet and they need to be dealt with and put in their place... but we must also fight to get our jobs back, not by tariffs, but by outcompeting our adversaries.

No.


I'm saying that you don't know who the enemy is.

I'm also saying that you are doing exactly what the enemy wants you to do.

reply to post by jam321

Weren't the corporations making decisions about resources during WW2?

I prefer the Federal government pass a balance budget. Close down all redundancy programs. Start paying off the debt. End the wars. Quit investing in unproven defense systems. Make a smaller government.

The point is not who is making the decisions but that the decisions are made with one focus, to save ourselves from economic destruction.


I agre with all of what you say above about how the government should function. This is war and war means the government focuses on wining and shrinks its expense, cost, etc to do what is necessary to win.

The thing I find most interesting is that some parts of China are bypassing 200 years of the industrial revolution altogether and going straight from third to first world. The first telephone you might have is 3G with broadband access, the first television an lcd or plasma or even going straight from a bicycle to a BMW.

That's a crude measure of the progress China has made. It's staggering.

Advanced technology & communications are two areas where we still have the advantage and it's in those two areas where we can bring China into our fold, slowly draw them towards social democracy or out and out capitalism but with democracy and free speech too, using economics to bring them to us. I suppose that's what globalism is about, crudely put.

We can't try to encourage democracy around the third world ... sometimes even forcing our democracy onto nations with no history of it ... then forbid these nations from trading with us on equal terms. Where's the fairness in that ?

Pulling up the drawbridges is not the right way to go.

Better hope China doesn't get too deep into ownership of GM. They make military vehicles as well as cars, you know. Not to mention Bell Helicopter, etc., and the rest of the military.

I agree the US put itself in this position, but on the other hand before long things are going to have to change one way or another. You can argue until you are blue in the face about whose fault it is, but any way you cut it, it is an unsustainable situation for both parties.

Something I keep coming back to: In 1998, Russia defaulted on its massive debt. Just said "**** you, Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley," and walked away. It caused a global near-crisis at the time, but today Russia is much better off than it was a decade ago: It tightly controls its resources and manufacturing, limits the role of finance, and so forth. Of course you've got to have a man of will at the helm, and the general tack taken pretty much flies in the face of "democracy" and "free markets." But they did what they needed to do.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/333844fba040.png[/atsimg]

reply to post by ~Lucidity


If people want to fight...

Then tell everybody you know Family/Friends/Strangers at the store to look and see what products are made where. Then tell everybody you know who is presently in or will be soon attending college and university to study and work hard. Focus on their studies.

Create a grass roots movement. Contrary to pop culture opinion. Americans are still among the hardest working people on the planet. We just don't come cheap. Our elementary and High-schools suck. but our Universities are among the best in the world. Have you noticed how many foreign students attend our Universities?




[edit on 23-11-2009 by SLAYER69]

Originally posted by Ulala
The thing I find most interesting is that some parts of China are bypassing 200 years of the industrial revolution altogether and going straight from third to first world.

I remember reading in 2006 or 2007, I think, that Shanghai built more skyscrapers in a single year than exist in all of Manhattan.

reply to post by silent thunder


Great point. I always worry that if we ever got into a big world war if we would even have the means to produce/replace equipment for a large scale war. I always have the sneaking suspicion that parts of our guns, planes, and ships are really made in China.

reply to post by silent thunder

I remember reading in 2006 or 2007, I think, that Shanghai built more skyscrapers in a single year than exist in all of Manhattan.

I recall that many of them are empty also.

Are they building to use them or building for prestige?

Ron Paul on Some of This

Perhaps we need to define "war" too. Everyone posting here seems to have his or her own definition of war. Again...getting back what we've lost has got to be done rationally and logically.

There's more from Dr. Paul around on this subject.

reply to post by SLAYER69


I agree it's not entirely the US's fault, but I think in an economic war, China would win at the moment. More man power, more economic prosperity on their side.

America isn't equipped to fight 2 military and several economic wars. You'd be hurting yourselves.

~Keeper

reply to post by silent thunder


I'm not too sure about that. Here's an interesting perspective.

Russia's economic crisis could have been avoided

When President Dmitry Medvedev told the world that "Russia has not yet been caught in this whirlpool and has the opportunity to escape it," close observers winced. Rory MacFarquhar, managing director of Goldman Sachs in Moscow, told The Wall Street Journal the truth about the Kremlin leaders. "They made the mistake of confusing high oil prices with the genius of their economic management," he said.

The economic reforms implemented by Putin during the eight years of his presidency were well designed. The management of the economy was not. Where did Putin and his team go wrong?

While the Kremlin and Duma created the infrastructure for a striving diversified economy, they failed to let businesses strive and the economy diversify. Putin's government modernized Russia's banking system and alleviated some corruption. He ensured the reduction of the Communists' seats in the Russian parliament from 24 percent in 2000 to 8 percent in 2008. His United Russia party's majority in the parliament allowed Putin to push forward progressive reforms and introduce Russians to land ownership and the flat tax.

Combined with the functioning banking infrastructure, the latter changes developed into a credit system — the first one in modern Russian history. The winds were blowing the Kremlin's way. Rising oil prices allowed Russia to pay off its foreign debts and to save $750 billion of surplus. But all stories, even good ones, must end.

reply to post by SLAYER69


I already said all this lol

I know I've been posting a lot. This subject is one of my pet peeves and it frustrates me. I'm shutting up now.

reply to post by ~Lucidity


Great point.. War as I mean in the OP is not a physical gun, plane, tank war, but more of a war of brains and productivity without firing any real gunshots at each other.

Originally posted by HotSauce
reply to post by ~Lucidity

 

Great point.. War as I mean in the OP is not a physical gun, plane, tank war, but more of a war of brains and productivity without firing any real gunshots at each other.

If only all wars were fought this way eh?

~Keeper

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Not sure if I agree. I mean war is a good way to get your point across and it works to control population and support evolution. So it has a purpose.

Hello all. This Country has been taken to it's knees from the inside. It is very sad. But sitting back and looking at it, it is obviously been in the works for quite some time. Globalist agenda. The biggest problem we face is getting americans together to stand up for what we believe in. We have been "trained" to not stand up for what is right against opposition...Especially when it is the LAW. They constantly bombard us with mind enslaving propaganda to where we barely know which way is up. The unity of American people is what is most important and what they fight most to separate. btw....this is my first post on ATS besides my intro post earlier today. Glad to be part of the ATS community.

reply to post by HotSauce


War is not the bad thing, it's the way in which we wage wars today that are the problem. With not oversight, no value of life or destruction of property.

Just look at what they did to the Mesopotamian Museum in Baghdad I think it was, thousands of years of culture and archeology was destroyed and lost forever.

I vote we start fighting with swords and shields again, then I see no problem at all. The best trained men win.

~Keeper

I'm wondering if we did suddenly decide to stop buying so many Chinese products, and ticked them off; then they decided to retaliate by demanding we instantly repay our loans/debts to them, what would happen to us in that event?

I really think we are walking on eggshells as far as our relationship with China goes. It's a fragile interdependency.

reply to post by ladyinwaiting


Actually they could do one worse, they could decide to take land for the value of their loans...

That would make things very interesting now woudln't it?

~Keeper

reply to post by HotSauce


Its disturbing that someone would want to "fight for my freedom" by taking away my freedom. Lets say I want to buy oil from Saudi Arabia. Right now I have the freedom to do that. But you want to take away that freedom. People like you are the problem, not the solution.

Our economic problem absolutely nothing more than DEBT! If you want to fight an economic war then do so by paying off your debts that you owe. Since you support economic slavery of others I volunteer you to be the one to pay off my "share" of the debt, that was installed against me, and against my will.