The Large Hadron Collider experiment is being relaunched - right NOW!

Originally posted by aristocrat2
One of the big questions about possible aliens life is this...

If there is such a high possibility of other planets bringing forth intelligent life, why have we not found the radio and radar jammed packed with their chatter when we switch on?

You're right, since we can't pick up radio waves from tons of other civilizations potentially across the universe they must not exist. I think you're simplifying it way too much...

Originally posted by aristocrat2
One possible answer...

Maybe one final stage in evolution of intelligent life is to be curious about subatomic particles, so every intelligent race ultiimatle builds a Large Hadron Collider which then destroys the civilisation that built it, hence no smart civilisations ever survive more than a couple of thosand years, before they self-destruct.

This is kind of a... well, quite frankly it's a pretty wild and unsupported "theory." Funny to read though.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing...

The scientists at CERN and LHC and others have spent their LIFE on this! It's not some random thing! These guys and ladies are professionals with like 10-50 years of math each.

If you're getting all scared about this event maybe go to school for 8-10 years and get a PhD in particle physics or something.

If we DID have anything to worry about we would all die instantly in a painless femto-second flash of bliss.

Originally posted by notreallyalive
The scientists at CERN and LHC and others have spent their LIFE on this! It's not some random thing! These guys and ladies are professionals with like 10-50 years of math each.

If you're getting all scared about this event maybe go to school for 8-10 years and get a PhD in particle physics or something.

you mean their intellect, or math and science skills are well above the average. ok, so what.

is that all? is this the only prerequisite necessary for a person to be free of errors, faults and delusions?
is that something that grants you wisdom and maturity of spirit?

well, think again.

Originally posted by madness
I dont believe we should be meddlin with this stuff.. not at this stage in our evolution at least. Then again maybe its all meant to work out just like this =) or maybe it will just come n go! whatever it is, these r exciting times. =)

p.s. any idea when the collisions r due roughly? i gather they getting the particles up to speed in both directions at the moment, prior to impact when i dunno.

aLaN

Well that's the problem - this stuff IS our stuff. It is OUR stage.

Why people must make it Doctor Who stuff, messing with time and space, etc, makes me think it's not for ALL of us.

I personally want to know what they discover, and I know it won't mean a black hole sucks up the sun and galaxy.

Gravity is all around us, even in the deepest depths of space in a void separated by billions of light years in every direction. It just has no measure. It is just as strong however.

That is why gravity does not follow the laws of physics. It is beyond.

Think about it - gravity is that strong on earth that it keeps all of us stuck to this ball of dirt... YET it is not anywhere near strong enough to crush us. Weak force.

How many suns are around us - figuratively speaking - that are thousands of times the size of our sun? We cannot count them.

Gravity plays no role in effecting this test.

Bodies in space so large that were WE to be even able to stand on them, we would be instantly crushed into atom sized pancakes have no effect on the effects of this naturally occurring event, why does the meager earth have a monopoly on any disaster?

LHC = small fish in the bigger scheme of things. But for us, potentially a scientific landmark.


[edit on 23/11/2009 by Ha`la`tha]

Originally posted by mysteralex
wisdom and maturity of spirit?

They do not alter science. They alter spirit.

Originally posted by Ha`la`tha

Originally posted by mysteralex
wisdom and maturity of spirit?

They do not alter science. They alter spirit.

well here we are, back at the cornerstone argument.
"can internal personal perception alter external events?"
isn't this notion the main impenetrable door which bars science from actual reality? because actual reality is personal experience, based on perception and consciousness.

(western) people rely heavily on logical mind and collectively recognized things, processed and sorted by logical mind.
but then again, how much of your personal experience is formed by the logical mind?

99% of what we call "science and math skills" are basically social programming, which steers your personal experience, keeping it within the laid down tracks.
can you lay your own tracks? can you rely on your own experience, without socially recognized concepts and markers?

ok, those CERN scientists have a mighty itch, that's understandable.
they want to transcend boundaries.
but the question is, where are those boundaries? are they external (collective reality) or internal (personal reality)?

you could do well to ask Einstein about it.

or see the movie 'Contact' for that matter.



[edit on 23-11-2009 by mysteralex]

Originally posted by mysteralex

Originally posted by Ha`la`tha

Originally posted by mysteralex
wisdom and maturity of spirit?

They do not alter science. They alter spirit.

well here we are, back at the cornerstone argument.
"can internal personal perception alter external events?"

I agree, and my answer is perception alone is not an influence on the external; unless you act on it. Until then, it alters at most our own reality, but not the external and verifiable reality - one that others can validate.

This experiment is not one by which we only perceive. It is a physical reality, beyond mere perception.

If you ask me does reality alter based on our perception, I would say yes. BUT that's why science relies on more than a perception, and on verifiable evidence.

Man you sure know how to load a topic

isn't this notion the main impenetrable door which bars science from actual reality? because actual reality is personal experience, based on perception and consciousness.

Our reality is indeed created by us, but that we interact with others means there is a basis for common ground. That we can change for others, aswell as ourselves.

Science is only barred from actual reality by the unknown.If we can correlate it, then it is real. Quantum mechanics is the elusive science that is altered by observation, but only by the means which we use to observe. The outcomes don't change. We alter them.

While everything we study in science has to be based on observation, some things, if we can correlate them, can be proven as true - and as far as I'm aware, this study can be proven.

Unless again, an unknown event skews the results, then I'll be be more wary!

(western) people rely heavily on logical mind and collectively recognized things, processed and sorted by logical mind.
but then again, how much of your personal experience is formed by the logical mind?

If neither you nor I can feel it, then neither you nor I can touch it - that is 99% of reality.

99% of what we call "science and math skills" are basically social programming, which steers your personal experience, keeping it within the laid down tracks.
can you lay your own tracks? can you rely on your own experience, without socially recognized concepts and markers?

Science is itself an ongoing process of theory evaluation, that either validates or renders a hypothesis false - that is the basis of using experiments; to determine a question valid or false.

Maths however, I cannot see as anything other than pure. Many things are social programming, that keep the populace defined in a role within society. I don't believe math nor science are involved as at least with science, we are always breaking the rules to allow new thinking.

ok, those CERN scientists have a mighty itch, that's understandable.
they want to transcend boundaries.
but the question is, where are those boundaries? are they external (collective reality) or internal (personal reality)?

you could do well to ask Einstein about it.

or see the movie 'Contact' for that matter.
[edit on 23-11-2009 by mysteralex]

I'd suggest a bit of both. Without personal boundaries to break, social boundaries are not important.

Unless you break free of the shackles limiting your own thinking, why would you want to discover new concepts at all?

Someone asked for the video of the girl who had a dream about Cern.




[edit on 23-11-2009 by hardamber]

reply to post by hardamber

thanks a lot for the link, that's the video, yep.
it's curious dream story, no doubt.

serves well to illustrate our ongoing discussion about personal and collective experience VS verifiable scientific fact.

reply to post by OzWeatherman



It would seem that if a black hole would appear, then instantaneously it would come into contact with the fuel with which it feeds. Matter. Why would it disappear? It would start feeding. Growing exponentially until the fuel is gone.

[edit on 23-11-2009 by Conclusion]

CANT WAIT!!
Do you reallly think some of the smartest people in the world, who more or less know what to expect would risk the entire universe (including their families) to find a particle??? Really?? I think the media has chewed more than it can swallow and has created fear for some monetary reason. They will probably have a fundraising soon so they can start an anti-LHC campaign.

reply to post by halfmanhalfamazing


If you are referring to the experts please note. The world is where it is now because of the experts in their related fields. The economy is where it is at because of the experts in that field. I don't know about you but it seems as though experts are not immune to power and wealth because they got a college degree and studied. Yes there are people out there who would sacrifice anything they have to bring about their own creation.

I still think its safe enough, but people should not under estimate mans ability to put others at risk. When people really believe something, often they will do anything to prove it.

Though i think the LHC is safe, i think those saying, that man would not threaten others with there actions are wrong.

Do you guys remember they tried to set the atmosphere on fire with hH bombs years ago, not knowing if it would set our atmosphere all on fire.

I say again i think the LHC is safe enough, but do not under estimate what man would do for knowledge.

Originally posted by Conclusion
reply to post by halfmanhalfamazing

 

If you are referring to the experts please note. The world is where it is now because of the experts in their related fields. The economy is where it is at because of the experts in that field. I don't know about you but it seems as though experts are not immune to power and wealth because they got a college degree and studied. Yes there are people out there who would sacrifice anything they have to bring about their own creation.

Obviously we have to accept the fact that the guys operating the LHC know more about it than we or the media does. Why would they risk their own lives... and those of their families and ignore a threat like "a black hole collapsing into itself" basically "eating the planet".

The economy is where it is at because of the whole of humanity... we became sceptical. It is normal for the economy to go through a reccession and eventually depression. It's called a cycle. It haas always followed that pattern.

Yes there are some people who would sacrifice anything to bring about their own creation... but i doubt that 8000 scientist share this desire.

Originally posted by space cadet
It will be january before they actually do the crash test. Please see my thread from yesterday:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Really??? Awwwwwwweeee....this is such an exciting experiment, I have been anticipating the crash from the second it was announced. There's nothing to worry about people if we do find the God Particle, We will be able to do things unimaginable years ago. I really do think it's a gateway, not in the respect the fearful ones think, but a gateway to larger space exploration, going maybe close to the speed of light like up to 99 percent the speed of light.

Originally posted by aristocrat2
One of the big questions about possible aliens life is this...

If there is such a high possibility of other planets bringing forth intelligent life, why have we not found the radio and radar jammed packed with their chatter when we switch on?

One possible answer...

Maybe one final stage in evolution of intelligent life is to be curious about subatomic particles, so every intelligent race ultiimatle builds a Large Hadron Collider which then destroys the civilisation that built it, hence no smart civilisations ever survive more than a couple of thosand years, before they self-destruct.

Well that's ridiculous, I once asked about signals from other planets of a very intelligent science minded person, they told me that with radio and radar waves after a certain distance would simply disperse and seem to be coming from everywhere (sound of space3 anyone?), and that if there is intelligent life they'd probably be so far out this would surely happen and if not, interference from gravity and stars, etc would surely mask about 90 percent of the waves out there.

Originally posted by madness
I dont believe we should be meddlin with this stuff.. not at this stage in our evolution at least. Then again maybe its all meant to work out just like this =) or maybe it will just come n go! whatever it is, these r exciting times. =)

p.s. any idea when the collisions r due roughly? i gather they getting the particles up to speed in both directions at the moment, prior to impact when i dunno.

aLaN

first paragraph is a typically Luddite response.

No collisions are planned until early December. Until then watch out for the millions of high energy cosmic ray/GRB collisions occuring every day without creating MBHs, magnetic monopoles, naked sigularities, or the Einstein-Bose condensates (really neat stuff) that the uneducated spewers of woo have predicted.

reply to post by Conclusion


Can you be more specific? It seems to me that you are hating on the wrong people here. I think halfmanamazing was referring to scientists etc...not economists. And although I cannot say for certain, I'm pretty sure that a majority of experts with regards to a certain field of scientific study would not "sacrifice anything they have to bring about their own creation". Besides, in the case of the LHC, what would these guys have to gain if they knew the world was about to be destroyed?

With that said, I'd have to agree with others that a lot of these people know what they are doing... they know a lot more than we do anyway
And oh, by the way, my recent short story submission talks about the results of LHC.

Well, it is the 'God particle' they are looking for. What if she doesn't want us to find it?

Originally posted by dreamseeker
I remember it being successful in 2008 and they created a mini black hole. It was on the mainstream news then again it was mentioned as a side note so maybe it was misinformation but people sure talked about it.

No they didn't.

Here we go again and here I go again repeating myself:

When will folks here learn to read scientific articles correctly and not resort to paranoid rantings based on wild beliefs of others?

The paranoid brigade have predicted that the LHC will create a black hole and destroy us......it won't, it hasn't. What it will do is spawn new speculation about the nature of the universe and hopefully point us in the right direction. It certainly won't provide all the answers.....only God knows that (sorry I could not resist a cheap joke).