Hemorrhagic flu in US, says Polk County Coroner, deaths under-reported

reply to post by loam


Actually I posted that same article back on the 22nd in one of these threads. We've been aware of the D225G shift for quite a while and have been discussing it in the threads.

People don't realize it but as close as the current swine flu virus is to 1918 there are some major differences, it's not a clone or re-release of the 1918 virus.

This shift adds another of the key parts of the 1918 version that made it so deadly, there's one more - something scientist claim is THE measure of how deadly a virus will be, it's called pbf-2 or something like that.

The 1918 virus had it, this year's does not. So far....

reply to post by ecoparity




It's impossible to keep up with what is in these large threads, when I just barely have the time to wade through the source material on my own.

I actually thought you might have already seen it, but posted it in the off chance you hadn't.

I think you are doing a great job, btw. Hope many applause have come your way.

[edit on 26-11-2009 by loam]

Originally posted by On the Edge
I'm not going off the deep-end about it! Any man-made bioweapon is abhorrent to me and is a bad thing right from the start!

I think we've collectively gathered that this thing is a man-made bioweapon and what the implications are. The questions I still have are where and why was it released.
What are the theories out there?
I'm not buying the Dr. Evil plan to de-populate. Although there has been public plans to do so that are documented in 1974 Kissinger UN, the operation would have been much more secretive in nature of delivery.

I am aware of the report of an accident of the Mexican government though. And I believe that the mutation of the rabies virus in March 2008 prompted the Mexican government to take action with H8N5 to depopulate stray dogs which is a huge problem in that country. The location of the H1N1 outbreak is in the exact area of the rabies mutation origin. It could very well have been human error in releasing H1N1 into the environment as an biological weapon but not against humans, more like a herbicide used to kill vegitation around roads. H8N5 only kills dogs. It would be easy to mix up virus samples as we have seen with Baxter.

Once the H1N1 was well infested in the world population another human error occured in Ukraine. As a result of political posturing the situation has grown to be quite dangerous. Now we must prepare for the 3rd wave of the pandemic, which is not new to the history of humans.

Hopefully this thread won't turn into the 244 page thread of regurgitation of a certain poster. Instead we should discuss the Polk County and US reports and measure the spread here.

reply to post by JJay55


It is NOT a bioweapon.

Please study some science regarding viruses and actual bioweapons before you make such claims.

The bioweapon scenario has been debunked many, many times.

Hopefully this thread won't turn into rambling nonsense about illuminati, nwo, and other claptrap from folks who can't or won't read scientific and medical journals.

I have politely asked that such speculation be discussed elsewhere, limiting this thread to known, verifiable facts about the spread, effects, mutations, and preventatives.

Please stop trying to hijack this thread with these useless ramblings, unless youu can provide legitimate verifiable proof of your claims. Blogs, editorials, and conspiracy sites do not count as legitimate verifiable proof.

[edit on 26-11-2009 by apacheman]

Originally posted by apacheman
reply to post by JJay55

 

It is NOT a bioweapon.

Please study some science regarding viruses and actual bioweapons before you make such claims.

The bioweapon scenario has been debunked many, many times.

You understand, of course, that all governments have biologicals in their arsonals? That means that, yes indeed, a virus is a bioweapon.
The release of H1N1 was an accident by the Mexican government. So the biological entered a clean zone and infected a target. Just not the target it was intended, therefore not a "weapon" of mass destruction officially.

The pigfarm cesspool theory isn't accurate. If that's what you used to debunk.

reply to post by JJay55


I understand it far better than you do: my last job in the USAF was disaster prepadeness NCO for my wing. As such I was very thoroughly briefed and trained as to what to expect and do "in the event" of a CBR attack.

I really don't mind if you discuss such things, just don't do it here. I didn't set this thread up for that purpose, so stop trying to hijack it; go create your own thread and enjoy.

Originally posted by apacheman
reply to post by JJay55

 

I understand it far better than you do: my last job in the USAF was disaster prepadeness NCO for my wing. As such I was very thoroughly briefed and trained as to what to expect and do "in the event" of a CBR attack.

I really don't mind if you discuss such things, just don't do it here. I didn't set this thread up for that purpose, so stop trying to hijack it; go create your own thread and enjoy.

Not trying to hijack your thread. Sorry.
Would you clarify to what is the purpose of the thread? To show that the hemmorraghic fever hit the US and is spreading?

The purpose is to track the spread and characteristics of the flu as it mutates, keeping a close eye on the gene sequences. It is also for first-hand reports of the effects, length of illness, any discernable patterns of sickness or wellness, what might be risk factors and what might prevent or mitigate the illness.

I really don't want to discuss the who did what when stuff, unless it is accompanied by verifiable proof and is relevant to aiding the understanding of the above. Otherwise it doesn't matter.

Originally posted by apacheman
The purpose is to track the spread and characteristics of the flu as it mutates, keeping a close eye on the gene sequences. It is also for first-hand reports of the effects, length of illness, any discernable patterns of sickness or wellness, what might be risk factors and what might prevent or mitigate the illness.

I really don't want to discuss the who did what when stuff, unless it is accompanied by verifiable proof and is relevant to aiding the understanding of the above. Otherwise it doesn't matter.

Tracking from the point of origin in Iowa? Mitigation. Ok, got it. First-hand reports. Carrion.

Actually, I've been tracking this since April, collating reports and locating hot zones. I suspected a lethal mutation in May when I first noticed the hot zone deaths in Argentina. At the time I expressed my concern that something bad was happening to it. Turns out I was correct in the assumption: I posted the Sao Paolo gene sequences early this summer. At the time I didn't understand the significance of the D225G mutation, but it was there in the early data.

So I have a fairly broad and deep knowledge of where it's spread, when it spread, and how fast things have changed with it. In the process I've done a lot of reading about virii in general and flu in particular.

Originally posted by apacheman
Actually, I've been tracking this since April, collating reports and locating hot zones. I suspected a lethal mutation in May when I first noticed the hot zone deaths in Argentina. At the time I expressed my concern that something bad was happening to it. Turns out I was correct in the assumption: I posted the Sao Paolo gene sequences early this summer. At the time I didn't understand the significance of the D225G mutation, but it was there in the early data.

So I have a fairly broad and deep knowledge of where it's spread, when it spread, and how fast things have changed with it. In the process I've done a lot of reading about virii in general and flu in particular.

Ok, so what's next?

reply to post by apacheman


Curious about your take on HAsp:
www.flu.org.cn...

Excerpt:

"Over the past century, three influenza pandemics occurred because of the emergence of novel influenzaviruses to which little or no immunity existed. In 1918 and 1919, the "Spanish" influenza pandemic killed more than 20 million people, with many of the deaths due to an unusually severe, hemorrhagic pneumonia. Now, Kobasa and colleagues1 have used modern molecular methods to show that the hemagglutinin antigen from this strain (HAsp) is a key determinant of virulence.

Using reverse genetics, Kobasa et al.1 synthesized the HAsp and neuraminidase (NAsp) genes on the basis of the genetic sequences of the 1918?C1919 influenza2 strain and constructed influenzaviruses using one or both of these genes (Figure 1). The resulting viruses that expressed the HAsp protein were significantly more virulent than the wild-type strains in a mouse model, regardless of the neuraminidase antigenic subtype. These viruses were also more pathogenic, not simply because they were associated with increased levels of in vivo replication but also because they stimulated massive increases in the responses of inflammatory cytokines in the lungs of infected mice. The mice infected with HAsp-containing virus had increased recruitment of leukocytes to the sites of lung infection and had severe hemorrhage resembling the hemorrhagic pneumonia associated with human infections during the 1918?C1919 pandemic. Kobasa et al. went on to show that people born after 1920 have little or no serum-neutralizing activity against viruses expressing HAsp. "


Patricia A. Doyle, PhD
Please visit my "Emerging Diseases" message board at: www.clickitnews.com...
Cat=&Board=emergingdiseases

Most probably a serious explosion of cases in the US beginning the next 2-3 weeks and building for at least a month. It's hard to say where it will go from there.

I expect the most serious and numerous cases will be concentrated in the Midwest and East Coast, due to the high rainfalls recently, low expected temperatures, and cultural holiday patterns. Add to that the facts of the crap economy and quite frankly, I'm concerned. This would not be a "normal" flu season even without the new type. There is far more crowding due to people sharing houses and aparments, more people in shelters, more people homeless. There is less healthcare available, and more people are stressed due to malnutrition and worry. The potential exists for some locally horrendous events to occur.

There is no doubt a lot of people will die, but that doesn't concern me much, as not much can be done about it. What I'm looking at are the midterm and longterm consequences. There will be many who get sick and recover, but will have suffered severe damage and require a long convalescance. What truly concerns me is the effect the flu will have on the economy: a few insurance companies will go bankrupt for sure, which will drag down who knows what with them. There are many more implications and possibilities, but more data is needed to shape them.

Michigan and Illinois are prime candidates for a very bad breakout.

[edit on 26-11-2009 by apacheman]

reply to post by JJay55


That particular mutation seems to be having a hard time in the wild for some reason. It is, if I recall correctly, part of what makes avian flu so deadly. But something about it makes it hard to transmit. I read a couple of references and papers about it it some time ago. I'll see if I can locate the references and psot them for you.

Just got Adrian Gibbs' report and will read it tomorrow, then comment on it.

Here's the link if you want to read it for yourself:

www.virologyj.com...

not sure which strain this is, but the flu has hit close to home here.
one of the little old ladies' at work nieces took a trip to florida, got sick down there and went to the doctor's. the doctor thought it was bronchitis, sent here home with antibiotics. a couple of days later it had gotten worse instead of better, so she went back to the doctor, who immediately put her in the hospital, she died a few days after that.

couldn't really get much more info about this though. the little old lady is really quite upset, I got the story second hand. but, according to what I heard, is was swine flu. can't say for sure weather she contracted this in florida, or got it before she went down either. just know that it hit fast and hard. she was around 50, and in fairly good health.

reply to post by apacheman


Hmm he is not saying that they have the hemmorahgic flu, just there was blood in the lungs. To me it's iffy. It's basically a wait and see, now if people over here start dropping like flies, the way they did in the Ukraine then I'll be worried!! So far i haven't read a nything yet, oh except china has a mutated form of swine flu!! Anyway, thank for keeping us on our toes!

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean
This is all just hype! Relax its just H1N1. The vaccine is much worse!

speaking of the vaccine, my son and daughters told me, all of the kids in their school took the vaccine, except for them. We are refusing the vaccine, because of all the mercury and crap that is in the vaccine, plus we went through the flu, lasted 5 days, secondary infections is a cold afterwards. Nothing new! My son took tamilfu because he has a slight asthma, but he has had the regular flu with no complications!! That's about it, when I told people at my work they looked at me like I was the worst Mother in the world, I don't really care I know better, I don't buy into BS!!

Not surprised to see it in Iowa.
1) Chicago is in Illinois- the next state to the East, with a very large Eastern European population- Polis, Russian, Ukrainian, Serb, Slovak- you name it.
2) There are many colleges and universities in Iowa, populated to a large degree by out-of-state students- esp. the Law and Med schools
3) Iowa is THE clearinghouse for many drugs that are distributed east and west-a perfect medium for transmission if someone is ill.
4) People who live and work in Iowa are often many miles from their docs- it's an ag. state- a seasoned farmer isn't going to take 3 days off to go into Des Moines or whatever to see a doc with what he thinks is just a touch of flu.

Thank god Iowa has one of the best medical Centers between NY and SF- at least the hard-working people there might have some hope.
But having been there a lot- business, seeing university friends, etc., I can say Iowa City and the Quad Cities are scary places if you're not selling meth or smack, etc. Mix in a dealer who was visiting his aunt in Kiev, and voila!

Ok, I've read Adrian Gibbs' paper, and he's made a few false assumptions. His whole thesis depends on the assumption that North American, European, and Asian swine herds and chicken flocks are hermetically isolated from each other and couldn't have infected each other.

So, here's the false assumptions as I see them:

First, he assumes a far higher level of quality control and quarantine for the international swine trade than actually exists. Swine herds are not monitored for much, there is no regular testing for them (that cost money, you know). So infected animals can easily pass through. He neglects to take into account that the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, and many deals were struck to import and export a variety of animals. For several years the quarantines and observation of imported animals was pretty much non-existent. This time frame corresponds to the emergence of the North American versions in European herds. So the possibility of reassortment within swine herds is high to the point of being close to a certainty.

Second, he misidentifies the origin as Mexico. The first cases have been id'd as coming out of California, not Mexico.

Third, he postulates a chain of sloppy handling in a multitude of labs.

Fourth, he fails to account for how it got from lab to population.

Fifth, he fails to account for the possibility that live virus vaccines may have contributed to the development within swine herds.

So while it is possible it is a result of multiple accidental cross-contamination due to multiple labs doing sloppy work, I find it far more likely that it is a natural virus that evolved out of the unregulated international movement of swine.

I find sloppy handling of quarantines and inspections due to cost-cutting is a far simpler and more logical explanation than a multitude of bad labs.