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Hemorrhagic flu in US, says Polk County Coroner, deaths under-reported

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posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 07:35 PM
reply to post by ecoparity

I hope your right.

posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 07:36 PM
reply to post by CASH69

I am very sorry for your ordeal.

posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 07:44 PM
reply to post by marg6043

Thank you,but it will be everyone's ordeal if a killer virus mutates here. And crap floats down stream. Its bad enough with all the chemical run off from the crop lands. Iowa is a liberal state anymore,and the liberals just don't care. They even pay farmers to remove all the trees in their farming crop programs.It is very sad. I have even seen them cut down a 150 year old tree harming nothing, with a nest of baby golden eagles. Needless to say,mama eagle was not happy.

posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 07:47 PM
reply to post by ecoparity

Because it didn't start with humans. It started with a rabies mutation and a response to that. As a result H8N5 was used on stray dogs and the formula was either a cocktail with H1N1 or they used the wrong batch like Baxter supposedly did. People make errors all the time. This was just a mistake and oopsie swime flu started in humans in the same area. The government probably didn't even put it together until it was too late.

So far the only theory is that Baxter and some Dr Evil planned to kill people. That's probably not the case. An accident by the Mexican government definately is the cause.

[edit on 24-11-2009 by JJay55]

posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 09:41 PM
I was just told today there is a little girl (niece of friend) in Peyton Manning Childrens Hospital (Indianapolis) with pneumonia. (come to find out she is bleeding in the lungs)

Edited to add more info

Currently my father has pneumonia along with one of my childhood friends.

Watch out Central Indiana

[edit on 24-11-2009 by TrainDispatcher]

posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 10:01 PM
reply to post by JJay55

I've asked about those types of scenarios and I can't get a single virologist to go with it.

The best I've been able to do is get one to admit that the swine farm in La Gloria might have used old vaccines or not used them properly and somehow triggered the pandemic.

The virus going around is "novel" but it's not unheard of and though it has a lot of resemblance to the 1918 swine flu it also has a traceable history in previous year's samples in the World swine population.

It takes a great deal of "luck" in nature for a virus to combine into a pandemic pathogen. I think people are imagining things happening in the wild much easier than they really do.

The hardest part of this for anyone who gets infected or has a loved one end up infected is going to be always wondering if the vaccine would have prevented it. I could very well be in that same position some day and I ask myself that same question every day, all day long. I'm hoping this wave will be minimal in the US, that's all I can do is hope.

posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 10:11 PM
Quite a few people have raised concerns over getting the mild swine flu more than once, myself included. It looks like the CDC finally had to face the music.

H1N1 Re-infections Raise Pandemic Concerns
Recombinomics Commentary 02:30
November 25, 2009
Dr. Debra Parsons, a pediatrician at Kid Care West in Cross Lanes, was met with reactions of doubt from local health officials last month when she said two flu tests had come back positive for H1N1, or swine flu.

Parsons first came down with the virus, complete with all the telltale symptoms, in August.

Her son became ill at the same time with the same symptoms. Figuring they had the same bug, Parsons tested herself to see what it was.

The test came back positive for Influenza A, so the lab at Charleston Area Medical Center sent it to be sub-typed. Parsons was positive for H1N1.

Parsons and her son recovered, but in October they started having the same symptoms, but they became much worse.

They were both tested this time, and the results were the same -- they were positive for Influenza A and then H1N1.

"It was swine flu both times," Parsons said.

The above comments on lab confirmed re-infection of two family members two months apart by swine H1N1. These confirmations are supported by many anecdotal reports of similar re-infections. The timing of these infections allowed for easy identification, because at the time there was no seasonal flu, so identification of infections was straight-forward. Moreover, such infections in school aged children and parents are common because H1N1 infections exploded when school began.

At the time however, the H1N1 virus was evolving slowly, reflecting an ease of infection of a naïve population. The jump from swine H1N1 into humans allows for infections with low doses of virus. Low concentration of virus produces a mild infection and a weak antibody response. The rapid spread creates widespread antibody, but the low level allows for re-infection from individuals with a higher viral load. A higher viral load can be created in a school environment, where some students could be infected multiple times because of frequent contact with infected students.

Thus, the increased viral load could overcome the weak immune-response and re-infect those infected earlier, leading to a second wave. However, the higher viral load leads to more serious infections, especially for these not infected in the first wave. Consequently more previously health young adults develop more serious symptoms, leading to an increase in hospitalizations and deaths. The higher viral load, especially when combined with receptor binding domain changes such as D225G can lead to the type of cases seen in Ukraine, where a high percentage of young adults develop infections that destroy both lungs in a matter of a few days.

In many areas, including Ukraine, this wave is subsiding, but the holiday season will lead to new infections by viruses with regional markers, leading to a third wave in early 2010.


NO this does not mean the vaccine won't work. The low viral load / mild cases are not anywhere near the immune system hit you get from the vaccine. There's only been a handful of people who were vaccinated and then got the flu indicating they were probably infected at the time of the shot.

posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 12:38 AM
That explains why we got it twice. Much worse the second time.

posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 12:45 AM
8 H1N1 deaths in San Diego this week

November 24, 2009

The County of San Diego Health and Human Services Agency (HHSA) reports eight additional people have died and tested positive for H1N1. This does not mean H1N1 has been determined to be the cause of death, which is established by the attending physician or the Medical Examiner.

The deceased are:
A 44-year-old-male with underlying medical conditions
A 35-year-old female with underlying medical conditions
A 41-year-old female with underlying medical conditions
A 42-year-old female with no underlying medical conditions
A 47-year-old male with underlying medical conditions
A 67-year-old male non-resident with underlying medical conditions
A 46-year-old male non-resident with underlying medical conditions
A 48-year-old female non-resident with underlying medical conditions

The total number of people who have tested positive for H1N1 and died locally is 45. Thirty-eight individuals were San Diego County residents while the others seven were non-residents visiting our community at the time of their death. San Diego County has had 659 hospitalized cases of H1N1 to date.

The deaths are a bit higher in age than typical, (the average age of fatalities is 19, or it was prior to the mutation).

We've been seeing a definite correlation between viral load and weather. Cold temperatures and high humidity raises the number of dead consistently, Ukraine had cold and high humidity at the time of the outbreak. I'll have to check and see what the weather has been like the past three weeks in San Diego before I'll know if it fits or if it's a new development.

Interesting, the avg temp has been on a downtrend for the past two weeks:

Not as cold as Ukraine was but not as many flu deaths either. Flu season is determined by cold temps and high humidity so the viral load increase in those conditions is correlating with the severity of the cases.

It might be something to take into account when planning your precautions and activities, anyway.

[edit on 25-11-2009 by ecoparity]

posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 02:18 AM
I haven't been following this whole thread,or too many of the other ones on this subject.

The studying I'd came up with was that this mixture was designed by combining the avian flu,the swine flu,AND
DNA from the corpses of those who died during the 1918 flu.

I thought this was kind of standard info?

Am I wrong?

posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 05:34 AM
reply to post by On the Edge

DNA from a corpse wouldn't do anything as the flu virus is made of RNA and has no DNA.

The flu virus has components from swine, avian and human strains in it but that alone doesn't mean it was manufactured. The 1918 flu virus was very similar and we weren't capable of genetic manipulation of viruses then.

The evolution of the H1N1 swine flu has been traced in samples of flu viruses taken from swine over the past decade, AFAIK no virologist has claimed it was man made yet.

One virologist in Australia, Dr Gibbs supposedly wrote a paper which claims the virus originated from a lab but he hasn't released the paper yet. He submitted it to the WHO and possibly other public health organizations for review and I've been told he was shown where he had made a mistake in his analysis due to him not knowing about some precursor strains which were found in swine in the US three or four years ago.

I'd be very interested in reading any science papers which have conclusions about any origin other than nature, however.

[edit on 25-11-2009 by ecoparity]

posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 06:48 AM
It sure would be nice to get some real news information on this. This is too important to just leave up to MSM. Are there any ATS members in these affected areas where this is supposedly happening? If so, please post info for the benefit of all...

posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 06:50 AM
reply to post by ecoparity

It was definately an accident by the Mexican government from information I received. La Gloria might have been a cover up. Of course no one will admit it, those that would have are dead.

Anyone know about stray dog plans in Mexico? Or the mutated rabies from Mexico in March 2008? Who is Dick Brandon?

posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 08:38 AM
reply to post by JJay55

I've tried to refrain from using the term out of politeness but it's a sad fact that almost every conspiracy theory to date involving H1N1 is generated out of people's complete and total ignorance of the subject.

I don't think people appreciate just how far advanced we are in the science of genetics, just how extensively we can analyze a virus down to the microbe and compare it to a "congressional library" sized database of samples pulled from modern times as well as archeology.

H1N1 has been traced through it's complete evolution all the way back past the 1918 samples and every part of it can be seen in various hosts making its way to an eventual meeting in the current swine flu.

Graphic Evolution of H1N1:

Source: The New England Journal of Medicine

Genetic Relationships among Human and Relevant Swine Influenza Viruses, 1918–2009.

Yellow arrows reflect exportation of one or more genes from the avian influenza A virus gene pool. The dashed red arrow indicates a period without circulation. Solid red arrows indicate the evolutionary paths of human influenza virus lineages; solid blue arrows, of swine influenza virus lineages; and the blue-to-red arrow, of a swine-origin human influenza virus. All influenza A viruses contain eight genes that encode the following proteins (shown from top to bottom within each virus): polymerase PB2, polymerase PB1, polymerase PA, hemagglutinin (HA), nuclear protein (NP), neuraminidase (NA), matrix proteins (M), and nonstructural proteins (NS). The genes of the 1918 human and swine H1N1 and the 1979 H1N1 influenza A viruses were all recently descended from avian influenza A genes, and some have been "donated" to the pandemic human H1N1 strain.

I think I and everyone else have been very tolerant of people posting unfounded, unproven and unsupported "wild" theories but in the spirit of "deny ignorance" I think it's time to put up or shut up. From here out I hope my fellow members will join me in demanding some scientific proof to back these assertions.

Complete article diagram is from

[edit on 25-11-2009 by ecoparity]

posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 09:30 AM
reply to post by ecoparity

Oh Eco, we've been patient too with those who profess and flood threads with textbook material that we have shelved long ago.
No one is disputing the H1N1 origin. All governments have the thing in their stockpiles. Sorry you don't get it.

The release of H1N1 was indeed an error by the Mexican government. How it got released is still an open question. As is why. So if you have anything to add to that I greatly welcome it. Otherwise, have a nice day.

posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 10:16 AM

Originally posted by JJay55
reply to post by ecoparity

Oh Eco, we've been patient too with those who profess and flood threads with textbook material that we have shelved long ago.
No one is disputing the H1N1 origin. All governments have the thing in their stockpiles. Sorry you don't get it.

The release of H1N1 was indeed an error by the Mexican government. How it got released is still an open question. As is why. So if you have anything to add to that I greatly welcome it. Otherwise, have a nice day.

Do you have any proof this virus was in "stockpiles" prior to the 2009 outbreak?

Do you have any proof, documentation, anything to back up your assertion it was released by the Mexican government?

I think you should go back and read the article I just posted, that's not a "textbook" that's a genetic analysis of the swine flu with it's entire evolution and development documented by three different scientists.

Do you have any papers published by any scientists anywhere disputing the details of the one I posted?

There are a lot of creative stories on the Internet, I'm afraid they are just that, stories. There are people out there who make up all sorts of wild fiction in order to sell products or push agendas.

posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 10:35 AM
reply to post by ecoparity

Looks like it's not just "conspiracy theorists" now who are saying that swine flu came from a lab. Now, it's another virologist saying it was made in a lab.

Scientist Repeats Swine Flu Lab-Escape Claim in Published Study

By Simeon Bennett

Nov. 24 (Bloomberg) -- Adrian Gibbs, the virologist who said in May that swine flu may have escaped from a laboratory, published his findings today, renewing discussion about the origins of the pandemic virus.

The new H1N1 strain, which was discovered in Mexico and the U.S. in April, may be the product of three strains from three continents that swapped genes in a lab or a vaccine-making plant, Gibbs, and fellow Australian scientists wrote in Virology Journal. The authors analyzed the genetic makeup of the virus and found its origin could be more simply explained by human involvement than a coincidence of nature.

Their study, published in a free, online journal reviewed by other scientists, follows debate among researchers six months ago, when Gibbs asked the World Health Organization to consider the hypothesis. After reviewing Gibbs’ initial three-page paper, WHO and other organizations concluded the pandemic strain was a naturally occurring virus and not laboratory-derived.

“It is important that the source of the new virus be found if we wish to avoid future pandemics rather than just trying to minimize the consequences after they have emerged,” Gibbs and colleagues John Armstrong and Jean Downie said in today’s eight- page study.

Gibbs and Armstrong are on the emeritus faculty at the Australian National University in Canberra and Downie is affiliated with the Centre for Infectious Diseases and Microbiology Laboratory Services at Sydney’s Westmead Hospital, according to the study.

While the exact source of the new H1N1 strain is a mystery, their research has “raised many new questions,” they said. The authors compared the genetic blueprints of flu strains stored in the free database Genbank and found the pandemic virus’s nearest ancestors circulate in pigs.

‘Simplest Explanation’

While migratory birds may have acted as conduit for their convergence, human involvement in bringing them together is “by far the simplest explanation,” Gibbs said in a telephone interview today.

Gibbs wrote or coauthored more than 250 scientific publications on viruses, mostly pertaining to the plant world, during his 39-year career at the Australian National University, according to biographical information on the university’s Web site.

“Knowing Adrian Gibbs, he will have thought through it pretty logically and come to that conclusion,” Lance Jennings, a clinical virologist with Canterbury Health Laboratories in Christchurch, New Zealand, said in a telephone interview. “It’s up to someone else to try and prove it or disprove it.”

Of course, the WHO is denying it completely. But, like the scientist said....the simplest reason is usually the best.

posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 10:43 AM
reply to post by nikiano

I will not doubt that the H1N1 was released from a lab, after all is very clear that during the 1976 pandemic it was from a military base that the first infections were found, but I also beleive that it was by mistake that was released.

Now when it comes to Mexico I think intention was behind the infections, anybody just have to look is how the borders were left open so it could spread into the US, because money to be made, if it was so deadly borders would have been closed inmediately.

posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 11:16 AM
The genome of the 1918 pandemic, the so-called "Spanish Flu", was recently intentionally resurrected by the United States government from a frozen corpse that died of the flu in 1918 in Alaska. Because of that resurrection, both the Avian Flu, and its "vaccine" are now a significant threat to public health.

The Pentagon's Alarming Project.....

posted on Nov, 25 2009 @ 11:21 AM
reply to post by On the Edge

Now that is new twist, something I will take my time to digest, and research, after all it was not known samples from 1918 that could be study to find exactly from where the Spanish flu came from or was originated, when it comes to big pharma and the powers behind financing biological weapons of human destruction anything could be believable.

Thanks for the link.

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