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Hemorrhagic flu in US, says Polk County Coroner, deaths under-reported

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posted on Nov, 23 2009 @ 05:54 PM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


Like I said, I'm not really interested in the conspiracy aspects. As far as I can see, they don't matter all that much even if true, which I seriously doubt. As I've stated from the beginning, it is my opinion that flu is the worst possible agent for biowarfare because of its inherent instability.

In the long run, it really doesn't matter. What is, is. Focussing on what is actually happening where, what remedies do and do not work are far more important. Forty or fifty million dead, while terrible in human terms, is not, would not be, catastrophic. Even two or three times that number wouldn't make a dent in the world population.

What does matter, however, are the economic consequences: immediate, midterm, and longterm. That part is being ignored at the moment. It shouldn't be, as most of the effects are predictable. There's not much anyone can do about the epidemic, it will simply have to run its course.

Sorry 'bout that, but there it is.

What we CAN do, however, is to prepare for the aftermath intelligently, assuming that you've prepared for the epidemic itself intelligently. I truly wish more were concerned about things we can actually have an effect upon.

[edit on 23-11-2009 by apacheman]




posted on Nov, 23 2009 @ 06:21 PM
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a little too close to home for me.

One thing in the Ukraine, totally different thing in US.



posted on Nov, 23 2009 @ 06:41 PM
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Two roommates in Texas both died of H1N1.

Here is the article from
www.recombinomics.com...




Fatal H1N1 Cluster in Texas Raises Pandemic Concerns

November 23, 2009



A hospital spokesman has confirmed the second recorded H1N1 related death in Nacogdoches County. The 53-year-old oil rig worker from Enid, Oklahoma died Friday at 3:50 p.m.

The victim checked into Nacogdoches Memorial Hospital last week when he began experiencing severe symptoms.

This update follows the death of his roommate, a 55-year-old oil rig worker from Mississippi, who passed away Thursday morning as a result of H1N1.

The above comments describe the deaths of roommates infected with H1N1. Since the vast majority of H1N1 infections are mild, the death of two roommates within 24 hours of each others raises concerns that they were infected with a lethal contagious form of the virus. Recent reports out of Ukraine has raised concerns that H1N1 with the receptor binding domain change D225G, is such a virus.



MOD NOTE: Posting work written by others

[edit on Mon Nov 23 2009 by DontTreadOnMe]



posted on Nov, 23 2009 @ 06:41 PM
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As in the Ukraine thread, there are some misconceptions here. (And no, I'm not shooting down suspicions that this is something new, something intentional, etc. I'm open to all the possibilities. I'm just clarifying that this does not HAVE to be any of those things.)

An earlier post in the thread stated that there is "no pneumonia" with these hemorrhagic cases, because "antibiotics do not work." While it's true that antibiotics can't treat the underlying infection (unless one is suffering from secondary bacterial pneumonia which often accompanies infleunza,) the reason that antibiotics don't work is because this is a viral infection rather than a bacterial one. Viral pneumonia is the leading cause of death resulting from influenza. That these people did not have a bacterial infection is neither surprising, nor necessarily evidence of some new, or different pathogen.

Someone also said that this "isn't just a little bleeding in the lungs." That's also true. It wouldn't be called hemorrhaging if that were the case. However, even normal seasonal influenza is capable of causing viral pneumonia that results in severely bleeding lesions in the lungs. This isn't as common as people dying from secondary bacterial pneumonia with seasonal flu, because typical A influenza primarily only infects cells with specific receptors. Those cells typically live only in our UPPER respiratory tracts. It DOES happen, though, and isn't considered completely out of the ordinary.

Now, A/H1N1 has been around for a while. However, this new strain (S-OIV) which has been causing illness since last year is capable of infecting those cells as well as very easily infecting cells with different receptors which live deep in the LOWER respiratory tract. This means it is more readily capable of causing viral pneumonia, and more readily capable of destroying lung tissue, resulting in bleeding (and sometimes hemorrhaging) lesions.

This is what almost any advanced infections cause in the lungs. They destroy tissue, and can cause bleeding, including severe, uncontrolled bleeding. This isn't particularly common compared to the total number of cases of infection with most garden variety pathogens (the common forms of bacterial pneumonia, or the common forms of viral pneumonia,) but it does happen. I'm not at all surprised that we're hearing about it more often with this pandemic flu, because of 1) it's ability to infect deep lung tissue more easily, and 2) the immense media attention focused on it.

None of this necessarily means that we are dealing with a new, or more pathogenic, virus or other agent. This is just something to keep in mind. Again, I'm open to the alternative possibilities as well.



posted on Nov, 23 2009 @ 07:43 PM
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Interview with Polk County Coroner

www.youtube.com...

[edit on 23-11-2009 by LAUTERMILCH]

[edit on 23-11-2009 by LAUTERMILCH]



posted on Nov, 23 2009 @ 07:48 PM
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Originally posted by AceWombat04

An earlier post in the thread stated that there is "no pneumonia" with these hemorrhagic cases, because "antibiotics do not work."


That was a quote from the head of the Ukraine medical examiner's office. He was describing what he saw in the autopsies performed on the Ukraine victims.

He's stated that people died of massive shock and cardiac failure after the virus caused such massive damage to the lungs that oxygen could no longer be delivered. He's describing damage so massive it basically destroyed the lungs completely. There is a huge distinction in what he's seeing and what normal pneumonia and bleeding from the lungs looks like.



Someone also said that this "isn't just a little bleeding in the lungs." That's also true. It wouldn't be called hemorrhaging if that were the case. However, even normal seasonal influenza is capable of causing viral pneumonia that results in severely bleeding lesions in the lungs.


You're still comparing apples to oranges. This is NOTHING like what even a bad case of seasonal flu looks like. That's the point the people on the front lines of this keep trying to make over and over and no one seems to want to accept what they're saying.



None of this necessarily means that we are dealing with a new, or more pathogenic, virus or other agent. This is just something to keep in mind. Again, I'm open to the alternative possibilities as well.


The large upswing in hospitalizations and the percentage of those hospitalized who are dying is what indicates the change in the virus makes it "worse". Even the people who survive without hospitalization in places where this mutation has occurred are reporting long term health issues.

The first wave of this virus was relatively mild and thank God it didn't kill as many people as expected.

The difference people seem to not appreciate is that the people dying from this virus are mostly children and pregnant women. This is not seasonal flu where the weak and sick are dying (mostly the elderly).

I don't want to scare people and I'm trying to maintain hope but this virus is something people need to respect and take seriously. It is NOT seasonal flu and we had all better pray it does not continue to emulate the 1918 pandemic. If it does, no one who survives will make that mistake ever again.

The WHO and CDC are downplaying the virus just fine. It might be time for people to start facing the truth, however.



posted on Nov, 23 2009 @ 08:57 PM
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The "facts" are vastly overblown and theorized upon here. Which of course, means they are not facts at all. But many here still treat them as such.

How about some actual proof before fear-mongering that a new super killer virus from the Ukraine is on the loose. You know.. ACTUAL proof. A study of the strain comparing it to the one in the Ukraine. Has this been done?



posted on Nov, 23 2009 @ 09:14 PM
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reply to post by fleabit
 


What part about the gene sequences do you regard as not facts?

What part of first hand reports of the severity, prolonged effects, and autopsies of flu victims do you regard as not facts?

We can't have a rational discussion if people refuse to deal with realities.



posted on Nov, 23 2009 @ 09:19 PM
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The CDC doesn't issue alerts for the hell of it. Most of the people involved in the medical profession here will tell you it's not a common event.

One ATS poster compared it to a Tornado Warning being issued vs. a watch.

A few posts back I posted links to the proof this alert went out this past week. There was no press conference or notification to the public of any kind, go figure.



posted on Nov, 23 2009 @ 10:17 PM
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The 1918 epedemic came in 2 phases. The first was described as mild but created lots of complications. Next year when everyone was doubting it could be as bad as last year it actuaclly struck full force killing millions.

Now we all here I hope understand this is no nature gift to humanity and this genetic recombination of this so called novelty is man made. Many argue its a bio weapon.
- I wanted to ask if any one remembers the USSA military lab that had lost a few samples just last year ... could this be it? Wasnt it a high security lab?

I think that as usual they are manipulating us and got all the sheep vacinated and they are wrappingup phase one of the experiment.

Now phase 2:
-will this imply more vaccination ? will this help the second wave casualty count?
-If its for money why let the sheep that labour for you die? (this is to those who think its a pharma monetary plan) (its much bigger)
-Phase 2 response from bio attack A/H1N1 to those who lauched it? creating more devastation in death count.

I think the worst is to come. My gut feeling for now is they are playing with us again and something is going down. But this time they are distracting the entire planet while they put in place the NWO.

Note; No need to get vaccinated. Many countries are reporting that the virulance as dropped for H1N1. There are much less cases in canada as MSM is reporting but they are still urging for vaccination.

Dont believe the hype ...

Fear No One, Trust No One ...


[edit on 23-11-2009 by NIGHTRID3R]



posted on Nov, 23 2009 @ 11:50 PM
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Deaths unreported here as well. I signed up and reported low-flying aerial spraying on another thread...8 days ago.

I live in Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada...I have first hand accounts of a 28 year old woman reporting to Lethbridge Regional Hospital with flu like symptoms...She was turned away and told the usual 'bed rest' etc etc.

Next day, she returned and was admitted for H1N1 and died 8 hours later.

I committed to a 'follow up' on the other thread (which seems to have stalled) and thought this the best to post.

More to come. as it comes...



posted on Nov, 23 2009 @ 11:51 PM
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Just a thought for those who are debating the reasoning for the silence with MSM... Perhaps once this virus spreads so far and all, then Martial Law can then go into effect. Just a thought; though I just am not sure if I care what I hear on the telly anymore. Something always to work me up or become upset in some fashion, and very very little can I do to change anything.

Ah well, this world had a good run I guess. Shame we just got stuck with the bill... bloody dine and dashers I say. (But we will meet the dashers soon enough to complain heheh)



posted on Nov, 23 2009 @ 11:53 PM
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It will be bad news for those that love life
It will be a prayer answered for those that do not.

They call it the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it.



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 12:31 AM
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Originally posted by ecoparity
That was a quote from the head of the Ukraine medical examiner's office. He was describing what he saw in the autopsies performed on the Ukraine victims.

He's stated that people died of massive shock and cardiac failure after the virus caused such massive damage to the lungs that oxygen could no longer be delivered. He's describing damage so massive it basically destroyed the lungs completely. There is a huge distinction in what he's seeing and what normal pneumonia and bleeding from the lungs looks like.


There is no such thing as "normal pneumonia," though. Pneumonia can run a variety of courses ranging from rapid recovery without any medical intervention, right on up to these sorts of massive hemorrhages from bleeding lesions in the lungs resulting in death. This can occur even in viral pneumonia caused by normal seasonal influenza. It isn't common mind you, but it does happen. Pneumonia can wreak havoc on lung tissue, regardless of the causative pathogen. However certain pathogens - including this strain of H1N1 - are more readily capable of causing such damage.


You're still comparing apples to oranges. This is NOTHING like what even a bad case of seasonal flu looks like. That's the point the people on the front lines of this keep trying to make over and over and no one seems to want to accept what they're saying.


That's just it, though. A "bad case" of seasonal flu that doesn't kill someone won't look anything like this, of course. A "fatal case" of viral pneumonia caused by seasonal flu can and often does look like this, though. As I said, it's not common, but it does happen, and it makes sense for it to be MORE common in the case of this strain of H1N1. What I'm saying is that this is not indicative of a new or different agent at work, necessarily.



The large upswing in hospitalizations and the percentage of those hospitalized who are dying is what indicates the change in the virus makes it "worse". Even the people who survive without hospitalization in places where this mutation has occurred are reporting long term health issues.

The first wave of this virus was relatively mild and thank God it didn't kill as many people as expected.


You are correct. The next wave, which is typical of all flu outbreaks including normal seasonal flu outbreaks, and usually occurs around February or March, is usually more severe because of genetic drift and mutation. This happens most flu seasons, so it stands to reason that it will happen with this strain of H1N1 as well. We are seeing some of that genetic drift and mutation already, and indeed, those who fall victim to it do seem more likely to become severely ill or die as a result. Whether those mutations will be the predominant ones in the next wave remains to be seen, but it wouldn't surprise me. Thus far, fortunately, there is no evidence to suggest that the mutations are of the sort which would render the vaccines administered to date ineffective.



The difference people seem to not appreciate is that the people dying from this virus are mostly children and pregnant women. This is not seasonal flu where the weak and sick are dying (mostly the elderly).


You are also correct that the people predominantly dying from this strain of H1N1 are the young and healthy, rather than the elderly or chronically ill (although chronic respiratory conditions do increase your risk of death with this strain of H1N1, because the lungs can't be aspirated as easily.) The reason for this is that this strain of the virus can more easily infect deep lung tissue than normal seasonal flu strains, and as it mutates, it appears to be becoming more and more adept at doing so in humans. This too, however, is not entirely surprising or unexpected. It is serious, and people should treat it seriously, but it does necessarily indicate a new pathogen at work. That was my only point. People were suggesting everything from pneumonic plague to an entirely different virus, and all I'm suggesting is that THAT isn't necessarily the case. That's all.


I don't want to scare people and I'm trying to maintain hope but this virus is something people need to respect and take seriously. It is NOT seasonal flu and we had all better pray it does not continue to emulate the 1918 pandemic. If it does, no one who survives will make that mistake ever again.


I concur.


The WHO and CDC are downplaying the virus just fine. It might be time for people to start facing the truth, however.


I agree here as well. What that truth is, however, beyond the above, remains to be seen. That's all I'm saying.



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 02:33 AM
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Originally posted by AceWombat04
People were suggesting everything from pneumonic plague to an entirely different virus, and all I'm suggesting is that THAT isn't necessarily the case. That's all.


I apologize then, because the majority of the posters are taking the position you just described I was taking your post as being representative of that same argument. It wasn't entirely clear before but now that you've explained it I got it through my thick skull.

The only minor point I would disagree on is that viral pneumonia can match the severity of the symptoms the cases likely involving the D225G mutation. The amount and type of damage being found in the autopsies of those victims has been described using those exact parameters, "far beyond anything pneumonia is capable of".

Part of that may be the difference in that antibiotic treatments can be attempted for the pneumonia cases but there is nothing that can be done for the worst of the swine flu cases.

Have you read some of the more graphic oral histories from the 1918 pandemic? They remind me more of Stephen King's "super flu" than anything else I can think of.

Thanks to movies people keep theorizing about Ebola and Plague but as you no doubt know the hemorrhaging is only one of many symptoms seen in those pathogens with many of the other common symptoms not being described as present in the swine flu victims. There has been a very long and entertaining list of alternate pathogens offered up by ATS members. . .

[edit on 24-11-2009 by ecoparity]



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 09:25 AM
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I live in Des Moines as do all of my family members. Were all spread out over the metro area and polk county. I know on the news everyday it talks about how 7 more people have died from the swine flu in IA which to me seems like a lot more then is being reported in other places, i don't really see news flashes saying 10 more people have died in Florida everyday. The news hasn't mentioned anything about autopsies coming back like this. They reported that the reason for the spike in deaths here is because now doctors are actually searching for it when before is someone died from pneumonia, the doctors just assumed it was pneumonia. I haven't been scared of the whole h1n1 thing at all, not even a little bit, but the new one scares me.



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 09:50 AM
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reply to post by truthquest
 


The Governments don't have to Get Away with their crimes. Most intelligent people KNOW they killed Kennedy, M L King etc, created 9/11, Invaded Iraq, Lost $12 Billion in cash in Iraq/Afghanistan......

What happens, NOTHING! They stay in power, don't get impeached, no criminal proceedings, Zilch.

So they truly believe/know they are untouchable. Thats why they aren't very concerned with covering their tracks. Western society is so weak, we are afraid to protest en mass against the powers that be.



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 09:51 AM
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Originally posted by semper_fidelis
I have first hand accounts of a 28 year old woman reporting to Lethbridge Regional Hospital with flu like symptoms...She was turned away and told the usual 'bed rest' etc etc.

Next day, she returned and was admitted for H1N1 and died 8 hours later.

I think this will be quite common as hospitals have already prepared to turn away sick people.
So what is the treatment that a hospital would give? Can we do it over the counter?



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 10:29 AM
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Time to smell the coffee.

This is exactly the scenario that the NWO have coordinated. They have a definate policy to try and reduce the population of the planet. What better way than the FLU?

A very common ailment that everybody around the world understands, that can't be blamed on the NWO. Also they have told us for years that the flu is a mutating virus that could wipe out the humans if the wrong mutation occurs.

My local hospital in the UK said 2 days ago that they have found a drug resistant strain of the H1N1. This swine flu only scares me because I have serious COPD (Respiratory Disease), my chances of dying if I catch the drug resistant form are very high.



posted on Nov, 24 2009 @ 10:33 AM
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I just had a very strange conversation with the polk county health department. The lady said she had no clue what I was talking in regards to what the news said and she lives in the area. She kept pushing me to take the vaccine.
She also said that hemorraging is not a KNOWN complication of the swine flu or pnumenoia. She said there is no quartines imposed and there is nothing like what I described happening. She also said that I need to stop watching the news and reading articles on the interent She told me to trust the government,trust the CDC. She said 20 people haved died of ths H1N1 in polk county since September. She siad there are no mutations and I am fear mongering. She basically implied that I sounded paranoid. She said that when you figure it out call me back.
The whole conversation seemed very odd; there is obviously some sort of cover up going on?
I also talked to Missouri health department and she said but that's in Iowa not here so it can't come here! I said well it was in The urkarine and she said she had no clue what I was talking about. She said 3900 people have died of H1N1 since September not the 1000 that the CDC is reporting.
It seems the CDC, the health departments and news all contradict each other. Who is right? Where is the truth?



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