Why doesn't israel listen to this man...., page 1

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Topic started on 21-11-2009 @ 11:15 AM by andy1033

For me obama has nothing on the two kennedy brothers who could do speeches with such great sincerity. Obama is a liar, and liars cannot tell truths. I will say again, liars cannot tell the truth.

Just listen to this speech.

YouTube Link

I am not going to turn this into an anti israel thread, but i just want to say that i think like many that israel wants all israel, without giving anything to the arab people. This is not an anti jew statement or anti israel, i think it is born in the facts of what israel do.

For people who are from israel, just listen to the above speech. See how words can be said with truth from the heart that the two kennedies had in great amounts. Obama has never made any speech that came from truth from within him, he is a liar, and liars cannot tell the truth, or speak it.

Do you guys not think people in israel, should listen to these words, i know they will not listen, but the words ring so true.

I think in song, this does what the kennedies could say in words. No song on earth brings people closer together, than the following.

YouTube Link

This is not an anti israel thread, so you people who think it is, can turn away, i just want to hear from those who can say something constructive, and not some the op hates jews or israel, which is not the case as i do not care about how you live, and who you are, but the fact that you cannot understand that the arabs in gaza like everyone on earth just wants to live there lifes.

How great an example the one europe has become for the world, 1945 we where killing each other and today, we are going to be one united country, but we still have our hates for each other, but no country today for the most part in europe wants to go to war with each other, europeans just want to live there lifes.

Do the people in israel understand what bobby said above, and what example one europe has given you guys, an understanding of the simplistic notion that people just want to live.

To the two kennedies that where from usa and where killed in the 60's, before many of us where born, many of your speeches are timeless, as you spoke from the heart and people speaking the truth, bring a vibration, that liars cannot project into our world like obama(hope he is listening). Understand obama, liars cannot say the turth no matter how much you tyr to act, and who your talking too. This is why the kennedies words are timeless in so many of these speeches. Obama if i was you i would listen to how to speak the truth.

Thoughts....

[edit on 11/21/2009 by andy1033]

reply posted on 21-11-2009 @ 11:41 AM by yeahright

It's a tough situation. I sure don't have an answer and my heart goes out to the innocents who live in the area, on both sides. The whole middle east is a quagmire and there are ethnic groups who have been fighting each other to the death for thousands of years. I very regrettably fail to see that changing anytime soon.

I see validity in some of the opinions of both sides. But since your approach seems to be it's up to the Israelis, personally I have a difficult time placing all the blame on them when they exist in an area where the preponderance of their neighbors are hell-bent on their eradication and annihilation.

How much do you need to concede to groups who philosophically deny your right to exist before it's seen as "fair"?

reply posted on 21-11-2009 @ 11:50 AM by seagull

reply to post by andy1033

It's easy to criticize the Israeli govt. for what they're doing, or not doing, as the case may be...

Less easy to say what they should be doing, or not doing, as the case may be...

As my pal YR says, my heart goes out to the innocents caught in the middle, both Arab and Israeli. They've done nothing wrong save be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

It's no one groups fault. The Arabs are no more to blame than the Israeli's. The Jews no more to blame than the Muslims. Contrary to what groups on both sides might want you to believe. There's more than enough blame to go around.

Is there a solution? Yeah, it's in there, somewhere...buried under the blood, and hatred fomented and shed by both sides... What is it? Only God knows...cause it's fairly obvious the humans involved haven't a clue...

reply posted on 21-11-2009 @ 11:59 AM by andy1033

reply to post by yeahright

Personally i think israel play on this about arabs denying there right to exist to exploit the situation.

I personally think israel want all israel, and do not take that statement to draw attention to anything anti semetic, as its not. I think the more powerful power has to give concessions to the other, and people in gaza just have no choices what so ever.

Surely anyone in israel or on there side in this understands that, israel leave these people with no hope of a life what so ever, so what are they going to do.

If you people in the middle east ever needed a bigger example of what can be done today, is what went on in europe, and maybe they are doing this in middleeast, but for me israel just are trying to show the arabs they want it all.

Hard liners on both sides i think are being targeted, to accpet something, not sure what though. Long road ahead for the the social scientists in that area to fix this problem, but maybe one day, but the hard liners on the israel side have to be quietened too, not just the arab side, if there ever is going to be progress.

reply posted on 21-11-2009 @ 12:02 PM by andy1033

Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by andy1033

It's easy to criticize the Israeli govt. for what they're doing, or not doing, as the case may be...

I do not want to turn this thread into a thread of us versus them again. Surely all of us here can see both sides are wrong in many ways. But the hardliners for both need to be quietened if there ever is going to be peace, ever in that area.

So lets not turn this into we hate the arabs or we hate the israel state, or we hate whoever.

Lets talk about what you guys think could be done by the social engineers, if they really want peace, that both sides can accept.

reply posted on 21-11-2009 @ 12:06 PM by snusfanatic

israel has a right to grow and develop into the land they occupy. palestinians are treated as equal citizens in israel and given rights that jews in many muslim countries are not. the last thing we need is one more islamic state. the lands called palestine need to be integrated into a single state called israel, and israel should make any necessary reforms to accomodate them.

reply posted on 21-11-2009 @ 12:16 PM by seagull

reply to post by andy1033

That's the trick though, isn't it? There are entrenched interests, on both sides, that absolutely refuse, to the last drop of each others blood, to work to solve the various issues.

Until these interests are removed from influence, which seems unlikely given the current hateful climate, in the region. I doubt anything of substance could be achieved.

Outsiders, no matter how well intentioned can solve this for them. They, both sides, have to want to solve it, no one else can.

What might work? I read a work of fiction once, can't remember the title or author, sorry... But in it, Jerusalem was declared, by agreement of both sides, or all three if you want to bring in Christianity, and for Jerusalem you'd have to; an international city. The laws enforced by the Swiss Guard, and a council of elders from all three religions working to settle differences between the three religions in the city, and just by the way, the region.

This idea struck a cord with me, and something like this would/could go a long, long way towards, if not resolving the problems, at least lessening them.

reply posted on 21-11-2009 @ 02:20 PM by rogerstigers

Originally posted by snusfanatic
israel has a right to grow and develop into the land they occupy. palestinians are treated as equal citizens in israel and given rights that jews in many muslim countries are not. the last thing we need is one more islamic state. the lands called palestine need to be integrated into a single state called israel, and israel should make any necessary reforms to accomodate them.

It is easy to say something like this, but hard to back it up. I have a friend who was born and raised in Palestine. She lived there until her teenage years before moving to the US (she is a citizen now). She is not a muslim, in fact, she is an atheist (or agnostic, not sute which). Her experience in Palestine was not a pleasent one. She still undergoes therapy for PTSD because of the events that occured to herself and her family -- all instigated by Isreali personelle.

I have said a lot of times that the truth is likely somewhere in the middle of the two extremes, but it is never the same for every person and it is most certainly not the rosey picture of equal rights that some people try to paint.

reply posted on 22-11-2009 @ 01:45 PM by December_Rain

Originally posted by snusfanatic
israel has a right to grow and develop into the land they occupy. palestinians are treated as equal citizens in israel and given rights that jews in many muslim countries are not. the last thing we need is one more islamic state. the lands called palestine need to be integrated into a single state called israel, and israel should make any necessary reforms to accomodate them.

This is among the most ridicolous post of fictiion I have ever come across on these boards.

According to secret Israeli Defence Millitary database it itself shows the full extent of illegal settlements being covered on this thread(link to the database and the secret Israeli Military Defense Report in the thread itself)-
www.abovetopsecret.com...

According to Haaretz, "An analysis of the data reveals that, in the vast majority of the settlements - about 75 percent - construction, sometimes on a large scale, has been carried out without the appropriate permits or contrary to the permits that were issued,", and "The database also shows that, in more than 30 settlements, extensive construction of buildings and infrastructure (roads, schools, synagogues, yeshivas and even police stations) has been carried out on private lands belonging to Palestinian West Bank residents."

Thus your logic the land is of Israel is false and deluded.
I won't bother to respond to your frivolous claim of Palestinians being treated equally and fairly because it's your attempt to derail this thread by making people respond to your frivolous absurd michevious statement.

reply posted on 22-11-2009 @ 03:16 PM by AgentX09

Unfortunatly both sides of this conflict are locked in a status quo of death with no reason to change.Want peace in the mideast?Have all countries stop sending financial aid as the funds just go towards more weapons.

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