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Ask a "Christian"

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posted on Nov, 21 2009 @ 05:23 AM
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Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
reply to post by DarksDeception
 


It doesn't directly say it.

However, the Genesis account does indicate God gathered the animals and brought them there via migratory instincts or an animals natural ability to sense danger and move to a place of safety. Either that or the animals could have been led by angels. Both are commonly accepted among theologists.


Its important to only to quote what He really said. Every word has meaning




posted on Nov, 21 2009 @ 05:24 AM
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Originally posted by Agree2Disagree

Originally posted by notreallyalive

Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
reply to post by notreallyalive
 


How does that prove the Bible wrong? We have no record of what exactly Noah brought in his ark. Just because the species are new to us doesn't mean they were new to him.

As for biblical verses, there aren't many concerning the speciation aboard the ark.


What species' he brought it irrelevant. My point is that if the ark landed in Turkey or wherever it supposedly did, HOW did a land-based animal get from there to Australia?
A worldwide flood wiped it out yet it is there, meaning the flood either didn't happen or wasn't worldwide to wipe eveything out as stated in the Bible.

Gen 6:17 "I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish."

1) God destroyed every living thing, except what went with Noah.
2) Living things have been found that weren't on the ark.
= Bible is not accurate.


It's said that angels led the animals into the ark and so they could also disperse them after the flood.(By the way it's 2 of a kind for unclean and 7 of a kind for clean)This would result in small isolated groups of animals all over the world which would replicate what we see today in island speciation.

Each new group would be suited quite well for their respective environments thus developing different behavioural mannerisms and patterns that differentiates them from other species.


So... angels carried them across the ocean, then the snakes evolved explaining why an Australian Death Adder is different from a simliar snake indigenous to Africa?
very Biblical.

I would chalk it up as mythical or allegorical but since there are quotes by God to Noah, it has to be literal. It's also wrong.

If angels led animals to impossible-to-reach areas that's called a miracle and would likely have been mentioned.



posted on Nov, 21 2009 @ 05:28 AM
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Originally posted by Komodo

Originally posted by DarksDeception
reply to post by Agree2Disagree
 


Can I just say this before i go. I asked you a fundamental question of how we know truth. And yes, you answered that question correctly being: By the Holy Spirit.

The most important question i asked, you didn't answer: How can you hear the Holy Spirit, to know truth?

You didn't answer this question, and its the most important thing we must do to hear Him?


EXCELLENT QUESTION ~!!
) .. to which i'll be all ears on this answer..

thx


I have no doubt that Agree2Disagree knows God, but this question is the whole meaning of Jesus words. It has to happen.

If He doesnt answer i will, with no disrespect, as we are all on a journey.



posted on Nov, 21 2009 @ 05:33 AM
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ok .. whoa !! Just noticed that maybe I already answered my question ..

"The Gifts and Fruit of the Spirit
We believe that the Holy Spirit bestows enabling ministry gifts upon believers, and that these gifts will build up the Body of Christ through edification and evangelism(1 Corinthians 12:1-11); as evidence of a Spirit-filled life, believers should show spiritual “fruit”: love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance (Galatians 5:22-25)."



posted on Nov, 21 2009 @ 05:34 AM
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I also feel that Agree2Disagree is wonderfully in touch with spirit. I don't believe that Religion is the best means for spiritual people to live for numerous reasons but discussing such would be derailing the thread. U2U is always great =)

Peace



posted on Nov, 21 2009 @ 05:38 AM
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Originally posted by Komodo
ok .. whoa !! Just noticed that maybe I already answered my question ..

"The Gifts and Fruit of the Spirit
We believe that the Holy Spirit bestows enabling ministry gifts upon believers, and that these gifts will build up the Body of Christ through edification and evangelism(1 Corinthians 12:1-11); as evidence of a Spirit-filled life, believers should show spiritual “fruit”: love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance (Galatians 5:22-25)."



posted on Nov, 21 2009 @ 07:08 AM
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reply to post by DarksDeception
 



It isnt a twelve step program lol... The truth is that the more time we spend with Him the better our ears adjust to His voice. Now what do i mean by that? When for instance you relate to the people in your life, you know their voice, shadow, manerisms, gate, the way they carry themselves, and all these things we recogonise at a subconsious level however we know who they are! What i am saying is that G-d went a very long way for us to RELATE to Him, to have RELATIONSHIP, to be real, cast our cares upon Him, but if He is our Father, then we are to relate as such. He is closer than our family because He sees our hearts, however He still wants to relate to you too! Isnt that awesome?!! The creater of all things wants to touch base with His kids? So what i say is to take time out of your day to relate, to form a relationship, get to know Him, and then you will have something real rather than a feel good at church for the church is just a building, but your body is His temple, and He doesnt want religiosity, but He wants to have relationship, and love on you, shoot the breeze, and to know that He is a priority in your life considering He is our dad!! lol


[edit on 073030p://f11Saturday by Selahobed]



posted on Nov, 21 2009 @ 07:32 AM
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Originally posted by Selahobed
reply to post by DarksDeception
 



It isnt a twelve step program lol... The truth is that the more time we spend with Him the better our ears adjust to His voice. Now what do i mean by that? When for instance you relate to the people in your life, you know their voice, shadow, manerisms, gate, the way they carry themselves, and all these things we recogonise at a subconsious level however we know who they are! What i am saying is that G-d went a very long way for us to RELATE to Him, to have RELATIONSHIP, to be real, cast our cares upon Him, but if He is our Father, then we are to relate as such. He is closer than our family because He sees our hearts, however He still wants to relate to you too! Isnt that awesome?!! The creater of all things wants to touch base with His kids? So what i say is to take time out of your day to relate, to form a relationship, get to know Him, and then you will have something real rather than a feel good at church for the church is just a building, but your body is His temple, and He doesnt want religiosity, but He wants to have relationship, and love on you, shoot the breeze, and to know that He is a priority in your life considering He is our dad!! lol


[edit on 073030p://f11Saturday by Selahobed]


True indeed, its not a twelve step program, and never said it was, and your sarcastic remarks has no affect on me.

I asked a simple question, an important question, so others can understand and you obviously cannot answer it, or maybe you never looked at the question at all. You didn't answer the fundermental question and you most certainly didn't answer it in sarcasm. And the truth being, that its not a "twelve step" program, its many more than twelve steps to find Him.

God Bless you !

Try to let go of that pride


[edit on 21-11-2009 by DarksDeception]

[edit on 21-11-2009 by DarksDeception]



posted on Nov, 21 2009 @ 09:51 AM
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A rapist/murderer/generic sinner spends his life making other peoples lives a misery. One day he kills a man who has devoted his life to helping other people and has never commited a crime in his life. The man who was murdered, by the Christian logic, goes straight to hell for not believing in the Christian God. However 1 year later on death row the killer repents and goes to heaven.

This is a hypothetical situation but it illustrates my question, how can God concider this fair?

(Don't get me wrong, I believe in a creator but not one as cruel as the Christian God who seems more evil than good.)

~J



posted on Nov, 21 2009 @ 10:01 AM
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I haven't been to church in a few years. We moved and I just got out of the habit of going. I do miss going, but just don't seem to have the energy to get ready on Sunday mornings. It seems to be the only day I have to get errands ran and such. I am interested in a Christian but non-denominational church near us and I was wondering what you think about the new "super churches" such as this one.



posted on Nov, 21 2009 @ 10:10 AM
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Originally posted by Agree2Disagree

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
How have you been taught what you believe about Christianity?
I will ask you this. How did you become a Christian?
In other words, What process did you to through to become a Christian?
If you cannot answer this, then you are a hoax playing games with people. All true Christians know they must have a foundation for their beliefs. I am asking you to show the foundation for your belief system.
Also, are you saying that you do not go to church at all?


Through the spirit comes knowledge.
I became a "Christian" through Christ. The same process that Jesus undertook is the one that I must go.
I have fellowship, but no true church.


I'd like to expand on that question:
We're you raised in a christian church?



posted on Nov, 21 2009 @ 11:13 AM
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reply to post by Agree2Disagree
 


I'll bite...

Full Disclosure: I am an athiest, and have been one since I was about 9 years old. My parents told me when I was growing up that it was up to me to choose what religion I wanted to follow, if any. They took me to a temple, a mosque, several churches, and allowed me to attend numerous services. In the end I came to the realization that I didn't buy any of it.

My question: Why do you, and more specifically, why should I, follow a deity that according to scripture is responsible for mass murder throughout history? (ie, Sodom/Gomorah, first born of Egypt, etc). Peeling away 2nd hand accounts in written scripture that may or may not be fabricated, what about the literally millions of people murdered in the name of this deity during the Crusades?

The argument usually given to me when I ask this question is "the people who led the crusades were misguided". However, I have never been able to have someone of the Christian faith able to explain to me how the crusades were misguided, but how their own method of following the religion is *not* misguided.



posted on Nov, 21 2009 @ 11:48 AM
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Hello A2D!...After tackling the latest questions and comments,let's get into the discussion of Predestination,if you will.

This is a tricky one,for sure,and I'm curious what others would have to say about it.

I guess to start off,"Do you believe some people were set apart before birth to believe,and others weren't?"

I'll be back soon!



posted on Nov, 21 2009 @ 12:52 PM
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Originally posted by JohnPhoenix

Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
reply to post by JohnPhoenix
 


If you truly are curious John I can U2U my story to you. When I began this thread I didn't intend to be telling my personal story but if you insist and if it will appease your curiosity, then I suppose I can oblige.


Yes, please do. You see my argument does make sense. If you can prove you are a Christian at least by the accepted norm, then I may have reason to think that you are getting your answers from a real belief in Christianity.

I would also assume your answers are coming from The Bible, since it is the source for all Christian belief. Is this so?

Also you have to understand my skepticism because I have seen lots of people on ATS try to pull hoaxes on people with regards to spiritual belief.

[edit on 21-11-2009 by JohnPhoenix]


A being that accepts Christ as a spritual teacher, ie a Christian doesn't need to follow every word of the bible, the bible has been interpreted, altered and in parts re-written by man and organised religion the same...often the truest form of Christianity is that of the individual truth seeker who believes in the message of Christ....the true message which imo transgresses all time and space, all dimensions, all religions, all peoples....it's a universal truth which has to be 'experienced' to be true...so many supposed church goers claim to be Christians though imo so many simply aren't....just wearing the coat not the underwear...if that makes sense.



[edit on 21-11-2009 by theabsolutetruth]



posted on Nov, 21 2009 @ 02:41 PM
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Would Jesus most likely be for a not for profit universal single-payer health care system, or would he say that it is more important for insurance companies to be allowed to make profits and pay their executives many millions of dollars??? Thanks!



posted on Nov, 21 2009 @ 02:47 PM
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Originally posted by Komodo

Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
reply to post by Komodo
 


I am not quite sure I understand what you're asking of me here friend.

Can you clarify "spirit filled church"?


WHOA! Hold up.. whoa whoa whoa..
) errr..friend..? yes.. Brother in Christ....ALWAYS.. kinda taken back by that statement .. but no matter..

*grin*.. well.. for a few examples for being spirit filled is posted below..

The reason I said.. "spirit filled' is because it seems that we that are endowed with the fullness of the spirit as a second act of grace, seem to be seriously missing the mark of what the church s/b about..

Baptism in the Holy Spirit
We believe that the baptism in the Holy Spirit empowers believers to exalt Jesus, to live lives of holiness, and to be witnesses of God’s saving grace; we expect the Spirit’s incoming to be after the same manner as that in which He came upon believers in the days of the Early Church (Acts 1: 5, 8; 2:4).

The Spirit-Filled Life
We believe that it is the will of God that believers walk in the Spirit moment by moment, serving the Lord and living lives of patience, love, truth, sincerity, and prayer (Ephesians 4:30-32; Galatians 5:16, 25).

The Gifts and Fruit of the Spirit
We believe that the Holy Spirit bestows enabling ministry gifts upon believers, and that these gifts will build up the Body of Christ through edification and evangelism(1 Corinthians 12:1-11); as evidence of a Spirit-filled life, believers should show spiritual “fruit”: love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance (Galatians 5:22-25).

Divine Healing
We believe that divine healing is the power of Jesus Christ to heal the sick in answer to the prayer of faith; He, who does not change, is still willing and able to heal the body, as well as the soul and spirit in answer to faith (Mark 16: 17, 18; James 5:14-16).


In that respect, I don't think I can provide the answer that you are seeking. I can say that, in my experience, most churches have followed the roots of man and the tongues of man rather than that of the spirit. They have ears to hear but do not hear.



posted on Nov, 21 2009 @ 02:49 PM
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reply to post by notreallyalive
 


Believe what you would believe friend. I am only here for one reason. I have provided answers it is now on you to choose.



posted on Nov, 21 2009 @ 02:55 PM
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reply to post by DarksDeception
 



How can you hear the Holy Spirit, to know truth?


Excellent question!

However, unfortunately the road is unique to each of us. All of you here know your faults better than I do. You all know your road much better than I could imagine. I cannot tell you the path, I can only help you choose more wisely.

When you find this answer, much rejoicing begins.


Star for your brilliant question.



posted on Nov, 21 2009 @ 02:57 PM
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Ok,now what about that issue of Predestination?

Your thoughts,specifically,please!



posted on Nov, 21 2009 @ 02:57 PM
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Originally posted by WeShallBeFree
A rapist/murderer/generic sinner spends his life making other peoples lives a misery. One day he kills a man who has devoted his life to helping other people and has never commited a crime in his life. The man who was murdered, by the Christian logic, goes straight to hell for not believing in the Christian God. However 1 year later on death row the killer repents and goes to heaven.

This is a hypothetical situation but it illustrates my question, how can God concider this fair?

(Don't get me wrong, I believe in a creator but not one as cruel as the Christian God who seems more evil than good.)

~J


Faith without fruit is no faith at all.



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