Who is Orchestrating the Fall of the Churches?

In the past the church was able to control information, control the flow of information and shield recruits from information. It is the advent of the WWW that is sending the church in a downward spiral. The open exchange of information on the internet is unprecedented. If the church could, they would destroy it. Little jimmy getting preached to all day about how he is going to hell, can go on the internet and 10mins later discover the church it total BS. Their days are numbered. The world is morphing into 3 spiritual camps:

1.) no religion
2.) agnostic
3.) extremists (god hates fa***, evangelicals, Pentecostals)

Superstition will be history in about 200yrs.

ummm science class?
cmon, you can only keep people in the dark for so long with scare tactics.

The churches will fall. As predicted in the book of Revelation. The religions of this earth, have a kingdom over the kings of the earth. She is the Harlot, Babylon, found in Revelation chapters 17 and 18. The Harlot lives in luxury, mettles in politics and in her is found the blood of the prophets and all those slain on the earth. God will put it into the hearts of the rulers of the earth to finally destroy her (Revelation chapter 17 v16&17). No longer will people be married in her temples and churches (Revelation chapter 18 verse 23). You are not the only ones sick of Gods name being used in the name of war and exploitation.

Originally posted by FortAnthem
Churches are failing in some places because many followere are growing tired of the influence of modernism and moral relativsm.

Many churches today are not teaching the moral and social values which were taught just a generation before. People can recognize that what they are hearing from the pulpit is not the teaching of the Bible.

Preachers, peddling acceptance of the gay lifestyle, easy divorce and acceptance of socialist or even communist government are driving away their flocks in droves. Look at how scared the Anglican's are at the Vatican's easing the way for mass conversions.

Churches which hold to the biblical teachings on faith and morals ARE thriving. People have a craving for the TRUTH. Churches with orthodox teachings are thriving which can be seen by their standing room only attendance week after week.

We can't see it here in the U.S. because orthodox churches here are few and far in between.

another christian homophobe by the sounds of it- excuse me if I'm wrong and you're not christian- ignorance isnt something exclusive to christianity I guess

You're not really a boring, fat ,balding accountant, on the contrary, you're a PRAYER WARRIOR!!!,

haha have seen plenty of gods warriors here and it always makes me chuckle.

Numbers are dwindling because we are evolving- we are waking up and people like Dawkins and Hitchens are raising peoples awareness- things change slowly over time but change does happen- once upon a time women couldnt vote, now they can- once upon a time humanity needed a god[s]- soon we won't and religion will become a thing of the past.

Originally posted by Alethea

Originally posted by Amagnon
- on the other hand, the information in its archives should be released to the world.

I find is disgusting that any organization private or public should consider history to be its own personal property.

Denying people access to the archives makes it no further advanced than it was in the dark ages.

How could you ever believe the history contained there was accurate?
Perhaps the scribes could have re-written history?

Even the OT speaks of the Nephinim, who were never supposed to handle holy books, infiltrated the temple because of lazy priests and they 'compromised' many of the manuscripts.

How could you even trust anything that came out of the vatican as far as being an accurate account of history?

That's an excellent question! There were a lot of instances of that in a lot of cases regarding historical writings, weren't there? I want to remember hearing about some, but I don't exactly remember what they were.

Originally posted by On the Edge
To, EricD

www.reformation.org...

Read the Jesuit Extreme Oath.

And have you not heard of the Inquisition?

Ok, the oath is a hoax that was originally crafted by Robert Ware, who also famously created the forged "Foxes and Firebrands".

reformation.org is hardly a non-biased source.

Can you please offer a source for claims that people in the Inquisition were killed for not worshiping the Pope?

Thanks,

Eric

Originally posted by Alethea

Is church attendance dropping rapidly?

Have the spiritual leaders themselves caused the demise by being deceitful in some way?

Has the church become more focused on political agendas than spiritual upbuilding?

Is there too much dissention and division within the churches?

Is there an upline or outside interferrence causing the churches to crumble?

Do you think the major religions are in free fall?

If so, what do you think is the cause of it?

From the Holy Bible:

2Th 2:3-4 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come (the rapture of the Church), except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

reply to post by EricD


Ok,I can see where it's been "debunked". (I hadn't seen that side of the argument before.)

However,understanding the way Jesuits infiltrate and control so much,who's to say they weren't also in charge of the debunking?

As far as "worshipping the pope"...maybe I should have said "worshipping the pope's religion"?

Back to the Oath part...sounds like the kinds of torture they were known for,doesn't it?

Nothing will change the fact that they did horrendous things to those they viewed as "heretics".

Originally posted by Alethea

1- Is church attendance dropping rapidly?
2- Have the spiritual leaders themselves caused the demise by being deceitful in some way?
3- Has the church become more focused on political agendas than spiritual up-building?
4- Is there too much dissension and division within the churches?
5- Is there an up-line or outside interference causing the churches to crumble?
6 - Do you think the major religions are in free fall?
If so, what do you think is the cause of it?

Excellent questions; if you don't mind I would like to answer without reading the posts of others. I want to focus on what my thoughts are. I find it intriguing, (perhaps revealing?) that you don't specify a religion, but speak in terms of spirituality... I believe the two are very different things.

1 - I would not know on a global level about church attendance. My particular creed seems relatively as popular as it was when I was a child, (a considerable number of years). But it would be disingenuous of me not to admit that my attendance of late, has declined.

2- I believe so, but I agree that the opinion is both subject and personal. Once again, limited to my community of faith, this is most definitely true. Historically and even recently, the institution's servants have taken control of the faithful in a way that has little to do with inspiration. Political relevance, has become important... politics is expedience... true faith has nothing to do with expedience.

3- The church, if you'll pardon the generalization, is not a living institution. The servants and shepherds are the crew and pilots of the body of the faithful, what they do of their own volition is not representative of the flock.... it should be, but the flock acquiesces to the excesses, abuses, and intrigue that spiritual identity shuns.

4- Dissent is never a problem. To exercise free will is human, and this all men know (some say they would seek to change that..., but that's disturbingly low for any human, wouldn't you think?) It is the mechanism by which dissent is dealt that reveals the institutions character. In fact, the church... nearly all of them, actually BEGAN as a form of dissent. It is the one reason for the existence of the idea of a religious institution in society - to protect the human spirit, beyond all things, who we are must be protected.

5- Frankly, I do not believe one is necessary. The religious institution is at peril because of those who use the institution for ends that have nothing to do with the construct. Personal glory, power, celebrity, freedom and deference seldom available to others; all these things are the inevitable result of any who are in a position such as theirs. In the end, I think many of the abusers and opportunists, among others, within the church got their on their own and sort of woke up to a different lifestyle, and just kept pulling the apple from the tree... one after the other. Politically speaking religion is not only a useful and valuable ally, but you can't get rid of it, even if you try. Like it or not a spiritual nature is the norm for humans, any attempt to squelch it has been met with failure. The history we know of strongly suggests that humans may never have existed as a 'religion-free' culture. The only collective guiding force for it is a religious institution.

6- I don't believe so. I think the only way to destroy religion is to destroy the believers. Eventually, we would end up having to kill everybody, and then ourselves. Religion is about ideals inspiring spiritual awareness.... remove that and what remains is no longer human.

Thanks for the thread idea. Now I'm off to read comments of others, knowing I have not had my thoughts influenced... I don't suggest doing this often though... I strongly recommend always reading the full thread before contributing... this was a golden exception for me . Given the subject, I thought I would risk it.

[edit on 20-11-2009 by Maxmars]

After having read the responses here I have to say this is mostly a Christian focused discussion, which is not terribly surprising.

The biggest target is the easiest to hit.

And it's their own fault for being the biggest target.

I generally disagree that the institution of religion is the flawed actor in this scenario. I still believe that ultimately, personal responsibility is the key... once identified as an agent of any such institution, all of them are supposed to subjugate their own ambition and agenda to serve.

No service... the church suffers.... the faithful are the church - NOT it's leaders.

Originally posted by On the Edge
Ok,I can see where it's been "debunked". (I hadn't seen that side of the argument before.)

However,understanding the way Jesuits infiltrate and control so much,who's to say they weren't also in charge of the debunking?

Because that wasn't his only forgery.

If your premise was accurate, they would have had to also forge other documents, have them credited to Ware, allow him to live off the fame garnered from those documents and then arrange for the grand unveiling of his perfidy at a later time.

Stretches credulity just a bit.

Eric

Originally posted by Alethea

Originally posted by Amagnon
- on the other hand, the information in its archives should be released to the world.

I find is disgusting that any organization private or public should consider history to be its own personal property.

Denying people access to the archives makes it no further advanced than it was in the dark ages.

How could you ever believe the history contained there was accurate?
Perhaps the scribes could have re-written history?

Even the OT speaks of the Nephinim, who were never supposed to handle holy books, infiltrated the temple because of lazy priests and they 'compromised' many of the manuscripts.

How could you even trust anything that came out of the vatican as far as being an accurate account of history?

As far as I am concerned your post contains enough sins for you to pray for forgiveness!

How could I ever believe the history contained was accurate - hmm - ok I don't believe ANYTHING! AT ALL! The word 'believe' gives me an emotional reaction - I despise the word, because of what it implies - people who have decided in their own minds what constitutes truth.

Once people have decided that they know the truth - they believe something - there is little point talking to such people about things which contradict those beliefs.

As far as it history having been rewritten - welcome to reality - how can any single account of history be considered authoritative? Its a very naive idea to think of any account to be more than a small piece of data, some evidence about the story.

Of course it might all be complete nonsense contained there - all made up .. on the other hand, why keep it secret?

What annoys me, is that there is a LOT of data - and old data - purported to be secreted inside the vatican. If that is the case - then regardless of whether it has been changed or edited or whatever - it still has value - possibly great value, in understanding the past.

Mankinds past belongs to us all - and anyone who conceals anything that rightly belongs to everyone, is to be despised.

[edit on 21-11-2009 by Amagnon]

Originally posted by Alethea

Is church attendance dropping rapidly?

Have the spiritual leaders themselves caused the demise by being deceitful in some way?

Has the church become more focused on political agendas than spiritual upbuilding?

Is there too much dissention and division within the churches?

Is there an upline or outside interferrence causing the churches to crumble?

Do you think the major religions are in free fall?

If so, what do you think is the cause of it?

Hi Alethea,

Interesting questions; actually it's exactally what I was asking in a similar thread a few minutes ago..

Yes, I believe there are 3 forces at work here..


1). Is Satan; our arch enemy to which he's the prince of the power of the air.. and controls the ENTIRE governments of the world.. and will do whatever he can to turn our hearts from a loving God..

2). The people of God are human but, MOST, have thus rejected the 2nd act of grace which is the receiving of the fullness of the Holy Spirit .. because of the teachings of radical 'teachers' which have NOT delved deep into the scripture enough to find the faith to simply believe that what Corinthians says is still for today.. and i'm NOT talking about Chapter 13.. i'm specifically chapters 12 & 14.. !!!
2b)...Come out from among them.. " means that .... LITTERLY .. whatever the world is doing .. DO NOT FOLLOW~! ..
2c) The 'church' has become a business .. not a church .. Jesus whipped the 'money changers' because they took up ALL the room at the Court of the Gentiles to .... that's right.. make money !!! The court of the Gentiles was essentially a place for those that were not Jew to come and worship the Father and bring a sacriface.. but instead, the Jews/Gentiles with them made it a 'den of thieves' because their 'stocks' took up ALL the places of worship~!

3). Is simply... the world and all it has to offer.. enuf said..

But, is God the Father simply going to 'let' the church go into free fall? I doubt that !! Why? After buying us with the blood of his only Son, you really think he'd just 'let' us walk away .. wander about .. NO.. he's a jealous God, Jealous because he loves us and waited for us to come to him .... remember the pearl of great price.. and yes.. I say this to those that thought God forgot all about them when they made a mistake.. in the past.. and stumbled.. Your STILL His pearl

4).. there's ALWAYS forgiveness.. with the Father .. ALWAYS .

reply to post by Alethea


People are doing it. I don't think there is anyone orchestrating it.

It is because more people realise how hypocritical and lying churches are.

I am a believer in Jesus, and the spiritual world, but I have never been a believer in churches, because they are man-made and corrupt.

Also, most Christian churches should hang their heads in shame for calling themselves after Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by joshuacrumbaugh
Read the protocols of the elders of zion. You answer is in them.

excellent point. these people have ruined religions across the world , and with mass media , are ensnaring men and women to promisicusty

Edit: derogatory slur removed.

[edit on 21-11-2009 by intrepid]

As someone stated already I think it is partly do to spiritual warfare. You also have a lot of interest groups out there who used to be the quiet minority, who are now becoming vocal and speaking out against anyone who says that their lifestyle choices are wrong. People only want to hear things that scratch their itching ears, and pander to whatever the desires of their hearts may be. This is ultimately all part of the breaking down of our society as we have known it so far. It is very clearly mentioned in the Bible that we would go through a period like this, which is not to surprising as history tends to repeat itself. Expect it to be bad, as each itineration is worse then the one preceding it.

Who is Orchestrating the Fall of the Churches?

I'm not sure, but I wish it was me! I think it might be moocowman tho...

Originally posted by dusty1
The churches will fall. As predicted in the book of Revelation.

Is this really a 'prediction'? Or could it be an elaborately scripted blueprint? If a certain group has foreknowledge of a plan, couldn't they make it appear as "prophecy being fulfilled" if they reveal bits and pieces of their scheme beforehand? Couldn't this actually fit into the Illuminati ritual of "method of revelation"?

Originally posted by dusty1
The religions of this earth, have a kingdom over the kings of the earth. She is the Harlot, Babylon, found in Revelation chapters 17 and 18. The Harlot lives in luxury, mettles in politics and in her is found the blood of the prophets and all those slain on the earth.

I think it says "blood of the saints; the "prophets" are actually in the Harlot's employ.

Originally posted by dusty1
God will put it into the hearts of the rulers of the earth to finally destroy her (Revelation chapter 17 v16&17).

But doesn't the last Kingdom rise out of the others? If political rulers of the earth attempt to destroy the stranglehold of religions, then the people scream 'tyranny' at the politicos. What happens may appear to put an end to those who fleece the flock and promote lies like blowing on people to render miraculous healings. It will give an appearance of religion being destroyed, but.....

When the 8th kingdom arises, it appears to me that it will be not total destruction of religions, but a reformation, a compromise, and a structure that appears to embody both aspects as a "righteous governance". But instead of being "religious" it will come under the guise of the Kingdom of God and promoted as the Age of Judgements.

The "return of Christ" will be explained as those who are in charge of rulership on his behalf. A "Christ class" if you will. The Melchizedeks. A higher Illuminati faction will seat themselves as the "Sons of God". This, they will claim, is what was meant by the return of Christ. It will be interpreted to people as a return to the "Christ Consciousness."

Originally posted by dusty1
No longer will people be married in her temples and churches (Revelation chapter 18 verse 23). You are not the only ones sick of Gods name being used in the name of war and exploitation.

Actually, when people are married, they are actually asking the state's permission. By doing so, you are giving the state the authority to govern your marital affairs. This is why gov. can also interfere in taking your children out of the home and why you also have to answer to them for homeschooling your children. Etc., etc. State has authority over your marriage.

By being married in the church, temple, you are also giving over your sovereignty to allow the church dictates and elders to intefere in your personal life.

reply to post by Alethea


For my part it is the lies the Catholic Church taught me in School, in that Christianity came to these Isles in the 7th Century, and that Christianity was brought to these Isles at the command of the Pope.. which is quite a few hundred years off and a bloody lie..

and my opinion is if they are willing to lie about that, and willing to teach blatant lies in School, then what else have they lied about..

Edit to add: the realisation that the Catholic church teaches blatant lies was my first conspiracy as to why they would need to create such blatant lies while wrapping it up in supposed truth.

[edit on 21/11/09 by thoughtsfull]

reply to post by FortAnthem

Churches which hold to the biblical teachings on faith and morals ARE thriving. People have a craving for the TRUTH. Churches with orthodox teachings are thriving which can be seen by their standing room only attendance week after week

Er yeah. Can we have a source for that, please?